Magazine - Kaloam - what is going on?

24 Aug 2011 by Chris Thornton

Well how very F.....ing nice for all concerned,NOT !!

There are lots of us who have contaminated squares because of bad practice at Munro (or whoever they are) and now they re-invent themselves and intend to carry on as if nowt happened!!..
I spoke, last October to Allan Ford who assured me that he would supply me with 30 bags of CLEAN Kaloam in Spring 2011 for summer work. Still waiting.

I was lucky enough to know someone who new someone who sold me 19 bags of clean stuff. Then our supplier got me 20 bags of clean but I think he had sieved this himself from the contaminated Kaloam he had been left with.

We have employed a solicitor to try and gain some compensation but this is ongoing. In late April the insurers sent a loss adjuster to see me and visit the square. His first words were that he knew sweet nothing about Cricket or Cricket squares. What a good start!!

I went on to explain that I had scarified last Autumn and again in March to try to get some of the stones out of the surface.

When the solicitor received the loss adjusters report it said "It seems that the work Mr Thornton has done has been successful in alleviating the problem" Well, my thoughts are un-printable. I am wondering if the people mentioned above are ex politicians because nothing I have read gives me any confidence in what they say.

No mention of recompense or even a meaningful apology. No, because an apology would imply guilt, perhaps.

No mention of the neglectful way they carried on supplying the stuff AFTER they knew it was contaminated. No truthful explanation of how the contamination occurred (blaming the weather Mr Ford will not do BTW)

Those of us who use the P C message board know of a groundsman who lost his job as a direct result of the manufacturers disgraceful behaviour yet here we are having to read this drivel.

Not happy Chris Thornton

"He not busy being born is busy dying"

24 Aug 2011 by Mike

Just one point with this...

Clearly, I aired my personal feelings about the issues with Kaloam in the quote above, so no more needs to be said on that subject. For info, that quote was posted on the PC message board. With that said, anything posted on the message board shouldn't really be put in to print without the contributors consent. Given that every piece of PR that I do for my employer has to be vetted by our PR company and senior management team, putting it to print alongside my employers name isn't ideal, as this may indicate my employers feelings on the matter, which isn't actually the case.

Consider this a mild 'slapped wrists'... good job I like you lot!!

Chris - very much agree with your last paragraph - that situation is very sad.

25 Aug 2011 by jbuddington

For many years, both David Goodjohn & Alan Lewis have spoken of the requirement for "batch analysis". At least then we would have a definitive gauge of honesty through supply chains. Surely through the dig & screening process, batch analysis can be done honestly, checked against the supply given to wholesale, then to haulier & finally customer? Then there is tangible proof of sand/silt/clay.

25 Aug 2011 by andy dixon

Ahhh, The elusive Mr Ford re-appears! Hope he is going to give me a job! Or at least pay me back for my many un-answered calls from my mobile when he apparently vanished to mars.
Also interesting that Mr Furner has now re-associated himself with Mr Ford. I remember him telling me that they 'were not linked'
Mike, I wish we had known but we trusted too much. What riles me is I know they knew.
Monro, Sue me. Or my employers. (I have none now thanks to Monro and accept full responsibility for anything I say regarding bags full of stones)
I will make sure your company goes down. Slowly but surely.

26 Aug 2011 by Philip Furner

Again I must put the record right, if people are going to throw stones they should be aware of the facts. I certainly was associated with Monro South who, unfortunately, went into Administration in February of this year, after Alan Ford had left the company in the late part of 2010. I spoke to many people regarding the problem that Kaloam had affected and assured them that the quality this year of the Kaloam product would be back to its previous reputation, however, the Administration meant that the old company could not fulfill this objective.

When Monro South went into Administration in February it was quite obvious that the Enstone depot would not survive and it was only through my insistence that the Binder business continued. I have had no contact with Alan in 2011 as we are now competitors. Because of the previous problems with Kaloam I have expressed my concern that there are numerous clubs who are dependant upon the product, and for that reason I've persuaded the new Binder Loams Ltd to produce Kaloam 2011 to the same standard as other Binder products, e.g. Ongar Loam, Ongar Loam plus and Super Surrey.

Andy, I'm afraid I don't recall our conversation however, I can assure you that at the time that conversation would have taken place what I said wold have been true and my intentions would have been genuine.

26 Aug 2011 by Vic Demain

Philip, I have the utmost respect for you, as you helped me enormously when I was changing loam at Ascott Park - funnily from Kaloam to Ongar - that said, these clubs have suffered a really bad deal over the last 12 months. Monro were in the supply business, which means giving good service to attract return orders. To offer substandard products in the first place, followed by avoiding the customers at all costs and never once having the decency to make a statement on a board like this is outrageous.
Take the example of a small club - Aylesbury Town CC - who were reintroduced following a closure for a few years, a group of guys got together and were trying to do their best with very limited resources, cobbled together some cash to do the work, then were shafted and received no help, explanation or recompense.
I really think you have your work cut out to get these customers trust again.
Vic.

26 Aug 2011 by DannyPC

Hi All,
This article was originally published in the June\ July Pitchcare edition and republished on here this week due to the number enquiries being received about Kaloam.

Mike, thank you for your comments and apologies for this instance if usual steps weren't followed. I hope the article gives people an informed choice on the Kaloam situation this Autumn.
Dan Hughes

26 Aug 2011 by A J Last edited 26 Aug 2011

Dan

Maybe if the article was re - edited and concentrated on the main suppliers/products and the testing it went through. Rather than Any negative that was in the past. Ok we shouldn`t forget how it affected the guys above i was one myself.

For toughs who will change their loam Great! please let us know how you get on. And for the guys who continue to use kaloam like myself ( no choice) it will be a new learning curve to trust the product and suppliers again. But hey, the show has to go on.

Andy.

Grow in grace...........

26 Aug 2011 by Mike Last edited 26 Aug 2011

Right then... I didn't talk about my issues in great length, as there wasn't really a point in moaning about what had already been done...... but I will address it now, and explain my reasoning for changing away from Kaloam, or more to the point, any person that was linked in any way to the company which come pretty close to destroying our squares.

So, I get these bags of gravel,,, about 10 tonnes of the stuff in total. The contamination wasn't picked up on when it was applied, and only after a few weeks did I notice the issue. I called my supplier to complain... and didn't really get any help, so I called monro direct... and got through to someone... think it might have been Alan Ford. This gentleman (and I find great difficulty using that phrase, given the problems that I was left with), tells me to "just powerbrush the surface... great that as we didn't even have a powerbrush!!! So, what next... nothing.... no alternative measures... and beside that, why should I be the one sorting the mess out anyway - they supplied a product that was unfit for purpose and then some - they should have been there to pick up the pieces. I spent god knows how many days on my hands and knees on boards picking stone by stone out of the surface - over 5000m2+, i can tell you I can think of better ways to spend my time! If I didn't do that, we could have lost our squares for the school use, the local league, and also a european championship tournament, which is a huge event for us, and all because someone didn't supply the product that they were supposed to... have a think about that when you are trying to sleep tonight. Obviously, my anger towards the whole situation, and the people involved is... well, a struggle to put into words...

And now to address Phil (and Alan for that matter), and your comments above. Phil - I don't know you, or anything about you other than what is stated above, but I do at least appreciate that you have come out with some sort of statement, and I would like to highlight a few points:

Monro Sport were an amalgam of companies, including Goundrey, Binder Loams and Roffeys, with Alan Ford and Philip Furner heading up the group.

Problem here Phil - an amalgam of companies with you admittedly being part of the team that headed up the group (according to the above paragraph)... the 'group' that shafted us. Sorry, but you have just accepted responsibility with that quote...

Perhaps the biggest concern was that there was no comment from those in the know

Phil - as you admitted some for of responsibility by being a member of the team that headed up the group (according to the above quote), perhaps some form of communication a bit earlier might have been better received by us that were affected, rather than afterwards when everyone has went their separate ways, set up business, sourced supply and are in the profit making game again...

It has been reported that Monro Horticulture Ltd. was placed in receivership, This is incorrect, it is in administration."

What on earth has that comment got to do with the utter rubbish that was put on my squares? I don't give two hoots whether you call it receivership, administration, or whatever other terminology you wish to use about the status of the companies... that isn't the issue here, the state of the squares is, and that is what should be being addressed!

Philip Furner, Manager of Binder Loams said "I would like to put the record straight regarding the incorrect information that has been quoted by our competitors hoping to score off our unfortunate circumstances

Put the record straight? Don't make me laugh! Since this issue arose, I have dealt solely with Surrey Loams (a competitor) - they have been a model of professionalism, haven't said a word about the companies involved, and have focused on giving me honest advice and support - that is why they now have my business, and you don't.

"As a result, Binder Loams, a division of Monro Horticulture, has continued to trade throughout the administration and has since been purchased as a going concern, and is now trading as Binder Loams Ltd."

Again, focusing on the future of your company, and not resolving the issues that so many of us now face.

From Roffey Brothers came this statement; "We are pleased to announce that we are now undertaking the manufacture and supply of the original Kaloam, as produced at Enstone prior to its closure. In addition, Mr Alan Ford, who has been manufacturing Kaloam for the past decade, joins us on a consultancy basis."

Undertaking the manufacture and Supply of Kaloam, as produced at Enstone prior to it's closure - what, you mean the crap that you sent to me and so many others? I can't say that I am filled with confidence with this statement. Alan Ford joins on a consultancy basis - is this the same Alan Ford that fobbed me and so many others off - the same one that was supposedly responsible for this whole debacle in the first place? Brilliant that...

In addition, Alan Ford commented; "It is most important that this original material is used, as any variation from it will cause panning, root sheer and have a different binding strength. Use of any variant will not be apparent for a couple of years when the wicket is likely to develop variable bounce and speed."

Any variation will cause root shear, panning etc? Never mind that... have you seen the effects of the stones that you sent out. Have you been to my ground to see me personally, see the damage that you caused, see the work that I had to do to sort it out... and here you are talking about variation and differences in binding strength - how about the binding strength of granite, because that's what you sent out!

Roffeys Managing Director, Trevor Poole, comments; "Restoring the integrity of Kaloam, following last year's issues, is our priority and, by utilising ISO 9001 Quality Assurance, should ensure that this is achieved.

It isn't about restoring the 'Kaloam' name - perhaps the people involved would like to restore their own names first, before setting up business again and dusting things under the carpet.

He is available, along with Alan Ford, to carry out health checks and help resolve issues on your wicket."

Alan - would you like to come and do a health check on my wicket, and resolve the issues on our wickets that you caused, or were a part of causing? Yes, no, I don't really care as I have done it by myself anyway, thanks to you. Never will there be a day that you, or anyone involved with you steps foot anywhere near a square that I manage.


Phil - if you are going to write something titled "Phil Furner set's the record straight", for gods sake, set it straight. Coming on here advertising the new product without addressing the actual issues at hand for us guys on the ground isn't exactly ideal. Whether you were responsible or not, one thing that you clearly have not done is set the record straight.

Perhaps an apology, a solution to the issues as they arose, and then the release of a suitable product might have been more acceptable to us. Instead of that however, we were left with no support, and Andy Dixon is now out of a job, and many others could have been too.

Btw - thank you to Pitchcare for collating this information and putting it out there.

27 Aug 2011 by andy dixon

Mike, I admire your tenacity. On your hands and knees! I found i hard enough with powered equipment but had already foreseen the future. There are only so many promises that can be broken.
I cannot 100% blame my leaving on the Kastone but would definately lay the majority of the 'blame' there.
Other reasons for leaving were personal but I still feel I made the right choice, if only for myself and my partner. I have now had to promise her that I will never again work more than an average 40 hour week.
I only hope I left the wickets in as good a condition as possible and feel sorry for my regular clubs whom have had to suffer this year for it is them that are truly the real losers, meant quite literally (3 main (serious) teams won their respective leagues last year, none this year).
I do think it's a shame that, yet again, these people will be able to re-surface (no pun intended) under a different name/director and no-one will be any the wiser.
On a lighter note, many thanks to Pitchcare (Laurence, Peter), Main Man Vic, Chris and Mike and all others for your help.

29 Aug 2011 by Barry Pace

Ok another angle...
And this is by no means standing up for the Kastone debacle but an insight into the scenarios that may have occurred, some from similar painful experience.
Why did the situation arise? probably due to a lack of management and certainly quality control on the product, there must have been either a hole in the screen and no one checked or they weren't allowed to replace it or the base material was sub standard, I did hear there was a very large stockpile though so I would expect it to be the first, sloppy but it happens especially if the company was having 'issues'.
Monroes, an opinion or view.... this was a very large company with sub divisions each doing their own thing, run seperately with individual management, sales, budgets and targets under a central 'banner'. I would doubt anyone other than the main directors could have influeneced any other part of the company and I would ceratinly doubt that the loam sectors of the business had any issues but were dragged down by other parts in trouble.
Administration... as soon as the directors or bank pulled the plug then there are a whole set of legal binding rules that have to be applied, an administrator or 'vulture' is put in place to salvage what they can, sell off most and basically rape a massive fee from it all.
The directors may not have had a choice, this can sometimes happen if the company is struggling you have a legal obligation to halt, some do it to take what they can and run, some to try and salvage something, others blunder on and then it can get even messier than it did here. Were the people above actual directors with influence or just the 'faces' doing what they do?
The sport world is unlike the majrity of industries out there in that it is a very small world and quality of product and reputation are the corner stone of most busineses. It is unlikley that from any point from the company struggling that the actual people with influence or in a decision making position gave a damn about products or reputation, the administrator certainly would not have, not in their brief or remit. Harsh but a reality.
To expect any support from the old is a pipe dream, no matter who was involved there are no viable legal obligations once the administration button was pushed unless you tried to claim against the old company and had this put in the pot with everyone else owed money, after much expense and administrative fee making you may get a couple of pence per pound IF you had a succesful claim.
Should the new companies marketing 'Kaloam' 'Kaloam 2011' or Koalaloam whatever they want to call the generic type be expected to give any support really depends on how much they want your business, certainly the loam game appears to be a extremely viable one if you have the right materials but again there is absolutly no legal obligation, morally yes, but do the new money men or old for that matter understand 'sport' and how it operates or even care about reputations yet, that is to be seen.
So unless they had direct influence and control as full directors don't be too harsh on the boys above, they may be doing what they are told, have their hands tied by 'money men' but let us hope that someone who can afford it provides at least a softened route for the affected clubs.
Just don't hold your breath.

Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!

29 Aug 2011 by Mike

At last... the record might just be set straight - thank you, Barry!

If what Barry says is correct, we at least have something to go on, some sort of understanding of the issues, how they arose, why the 'old company' couldn't act to resolve the issus etc. My issue with this however are, (if the above is correct), why on earth didn't Phil or Alan come out and say this? Perhaps if they did, they would be held in a bit higher regard in my opinion, and that might just have helped salvage their reputations somewhat. I think I speak for most when I say that what we really wanted was answers, and then help, if it were available, but without answers, and then resurfacing under a different banner, has only served to anger those affected even more.

Barry - when you installed the set of nets not to far away from me, there was initially a problem with the net. Okay, mistakes do happen (and that mistake wasn't yours anyway as it happens). To your credit, you spoke with the customer (or nearest person to the customer), took on board the comments, and acted accordingly. You sorted the issue out to the customers satisfaction, and got a bloody good job completed - your actions when faced with the problems maintained your reputation, and will secure you future business. Now, imagine if you had said "oh well, there it is, job done, my flight leaves in half an hour" - that would have tarnished your reputation, and future business would probably be directed elsewhere, and that would have been a hell of a shame. Say some time not to long after, you set up a business offering the same services, i'm afraid that your reputation would still be tarnished, as you were 'the face' to the contract - people can't just resurface under another name or company after having a major issue, and hope to have their reputation intact following such an issue, without some form of acknowledgement to their customer base. This is how I feel about those who were linked to the kaloam debacle. Even if Phil or Alan weren't responsible, they could have had the decency to come out and explain how so, in an honest and upfront manner.

As one of the customers that was affected by the bags of rocks monroe's sent out, I feel that I have a right to form an opinion on the people who were seemingly responsible, at least until they, or someone else involved has the deceny to come along and tell me exactly what happened. As yet, I still don't have that...

29 Aug 2011 by Barry Pace

Only thoughts not facts Mike.......
Mike, like I said reputation is all in this game... it depends if people who make decisions understand that fact on how companies operate...

Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!

29 Aug 2011 by Mike

Agreed, Barry

31 Aug 2011 by eddyinfreehold

I have a small financial interest in all this business having done an analysis and report on some Kastone and control material in the Autumn of 2010.

If it wasn't so serious for the victims of this mess, the whole thing would be quite funny really. It rather reminds me of those telly programmes like "Cowboy Builders" or whatever they're called. Every time the little old dear tries to complain, the builder disappears after demanding another cheque. He then pops up running another firm somewhere else and doing the same thing. He is always protected by the asinine company laws of this land where a Limited Company basically means the directors have limited liability.

Details are here if anyone's interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administration_%28law%29#United_Kingdom

What is patently obvious from the product supplied last Autumn is that Monroe Horticulture and/or its subsidiary companies had no effective quality control procedures in place at all, or if they thought they had, then their operatives were either unsupervised, unmanaged or duplicitous. If I were buying any varient of what was Kaloam, I would want a standard analysis on the bag and a certificate of compliance with every delivery to boot. You wouldn't buy fertiliser or seed like that, nor flour, sugar, cement or petrol. The loam industry lives in the stoneage in terms of quality control.

There is no way I would sell ANYTHING these days, either as a manufacturer or a merchant without a specification and a certificate of compliance. If Pitchcare wanted a new campaign, could I suggest a defined standard for all the traditional loams in this country. Not much to ask really seeing as everything else in the machine shed is so defined and regulated.

2 Sep 2011 by Chris Thornton Last edited 2 Sep 2011

I have posted this on the message board and cannot get it off this page.
Chris

"He not busy being born is busy dying"