Magazine - Saltex - How was it for you?

9 Sep 2011 by Vic Demain

I attended on the Thursday and thoroughly enjoyed my time spent there.
Yet for me the purpose of my visit was probably different to that of most people attending.
I didn't need to look for new equipment, as I have no money, seed or fertiliser, as that is already in stock or try and sort out loam, as my current suppliers are very good and never attend the show anyway. So for me it was not about buying.
For me it was catching up with friends. We spent a lot of time on the excellently presented Dennis/Saltex stand, where Ian, Roger, Alison, Robert, Toby et al looked after us very well. We visited Barry at Avoncrop, Craig at Limagrain and Jim at RTM, Had a brief chat with Helen from Groundsearch and a few others. We attended the Cricketworld.com seminar and met a fellow Pitchcare poster, Len Smith was on form on the panel who were bombarded by two very vocal and opinionated members of the audience.
The only reason we go is because the show is 30 minutes away from us and there is no way I would travel a distance for it.
Having said that we spent longer there this year than in the previous two.

9 Sep 2011 by David Ember

I think the show needs to focus on innovation both in equipment and technique. I would suggest that, without being in possession of the facts, the show needs to attract exhibitors by reducing costs to them. Having been invovled in other industry sectors it seems a regularly repeated error by the organisers. Build the reputation, build the exhibitor and attendee base then start pricing one, the other or in some cases both out of it. As visiting is free then the former may be an issue.

It is usually the small exhibitors who have the interesting things to show and more often than not the things people can generally afford on a more regular basis. Yes it is always fun to see the big boys toys at the likes of John Deere, Scag, Toro, Dennis etc. but this is akin to walking around the Farrari dealership you would love one but in reality you may only ever have a slim chance of owning such a piece of kit.

My request would be, ensure you attract the smaller exhibitors, don't forget that the costs extend far beyond the price of a stand, staff out of the building, stand costs, hotels and even entertainment.

Finally as a visitor don't you think £7.40 for two bottles of beer is a bit steep? Pitch costs are partly to blame but you have to remember the average groundsman is not the highest paid individual. Be friedlier to the exhibitors, visitors and maybe things will turn around - else people will just abandon the show.

11 Sep 2011 by Mike

Statistics will only ever form one part of a complex argument - to rely on them in isolation to ascertain the success of such an event is not a wise practice, nor is it a fair reflection.

To be fair, whatever the IOG do with Saltex, they won't please everyone, they may change things that will attract some different people, but a side effect of that may be that they lose others - we can't always have everything. What I would say, in all of my dealings with the IOG, is that they do listen - they can't always act, but they do listen.

I didn't make it to this years Saltex due to not being able to get the time off work (not a poor timing issue in respect of the event), but I would have loved to, and I look forward to attending next year, if I can.

What I would also say is that to put on any type of show for circa 10,000 visitors and 400 or so exhibitors is one hell of an achievement, and whether you think that they got it right or wrong, they do deserve some sort of credit for getting out there, putting something like this on, and pulling it off to one degree or another, and I actually think that until something better comes along, they deserve a pat on the back, and the support of those who knock them. How many of those that do knock them know of the team of volunteers that give up their own time to help set up for this show... a little gratitude never went amiss, and I for one appreciate what these people contribute to our industry

A diluted support base never got anyone anywhere near their goals, so I would call for everyone to actually support the IOG in what they are trying to achieve - work with them, communicate with them, fill in all of the surveys that they send out, and try to make a difference. Standing back and sniping from afar will not do anything but lower the morale of what is inherently a downtrodden industry at the best of times.

12 Sep 2011 by Colin Mumford

"82.2% of statistics are made up on the spot" (Vic Reeves quote in a 1997 Guinness advert).

12 Sep 2011 by Poa7 Last edited 12 Sep 2011

They can't always act, but they do listen?

I've always had the ethos that actions speak louder than words. Hence the organisation - a method to affect change for the greater good! Maybe wrong on this one though!

Having been in the trade for over 22 years and visited Saltex on at least 11 occasions I can honestly say that in my opinion, Saltex is stale and holds absolutely no attraction to me anymore.

I am in a position where I can purchase products and would rather browse online than spend a fortune visiting a show that holds no real interest.

With regards to the 'other attractions' now available to other sectors of the industry - isn't it a case than rather changing the same old format and moving things forward the easier option was to simply invite other sectors to the show. This also helps with the attendance figures but unfortunately does not help the turf industry and it's paying exhibitors.

Playground managers - beware, the future is dull!

12 Sep 2011 by Mike

No wrong - only opinions, the more of which lead to greater understanding and solutions.

As one who has been in the trade for 22 years, and visited 11 times, you are admitedly no longer interested. I, on the other hand have been in the industry for 12 years, and have not attended yet - though I am very interested and supportive - perhaps, in 12 years time, I will echo your sentiments, and someone else, will also echo mine... one in one out, so to speak?

The internet browsing/buying age has obviously hit Saltex hard, and this also goes for pretty much every other industry - Woolworths, for example no longer trading, and the internet probably played a large part in that.

Put frankly, I would suggest that the 'dwindling numbers' are a side effect of the world we live in today. With that said, the show does still hold an attraction and value to certain parts of this industry as the figures, despite being less than previous years, are still healthy.

12 Sep 2011 by Poa7

Can I ask why, after 12 years in the industry you have never visited the so called biggest and best show for your trade?

You go on to say you are very interested and supportive?

I also fail to see how you can form opinions on 'healthy' numbers? You've never been? Is your opinion on 'healthy numbers' formed from discussing attendance with a trader?

Go along next year, walk up and down the turf isles and look at the number of people alongside you. Then speak to an exhibitor who has shelled out to transport and set up a stand, paid for the space, paid for the staff to man the space, their food and accommodation, how many leads did it generate for them? How many sales?

Then come back and discuss.....

I would suggest that there is only one organisation making an instant and guaranteed profit here! No wonder it's stated as being so good!!

Woolworths have gone? HMV are struggling! We are all doomed and it's all down to the pesky internet. What about success stories like Primark, M&S .... creative thinkers, doer's not talkers .... or is this a case of one in one out too?

12 Sep 2011 by Mike Last edited 12 Sep 2011

Location and cost (I live on an island in the middle of nowhere, and the flight's cost a fortune...). Last year, cheapest travel I could find was over £500. This year is the first time that I have ventured to the mainland for such things - I spent over £300 getting to the Campey anniversary, I spent over £450 attending the seminar at Uxbridge - the reason for attending that was to support a personal friend. We don't have any turf shows here, but I have been working my backside off for years trying to attract manufacturers to our area to support a very small group of groundsmen, and finally, I hope to have something to show for it in October - I reckon i'll be lucky if we get 40 people... far from a huge amount, but a success never the less. The reason for being unable to attend this year is that I have a serious staff issue, whereby I have to be at work to manage the issue constantly - so I had to cancel my flights. I also add that I didn't even know about Saltex until 4 years ago!

My opinions are based on many conversations with exhibitors and traders - only yesterday, I was speaking with one of the guys from Dennis... he reported having an excellent time, and expressed their ongoing support of the event. Yes, there will be others who have different opinions, but like I said, you can't please everyone...

Call it one out, one in, evolution... call it whatever you want, but anyone has to acknowledge that trends will change with the passage of time, and that's why I support what the IOG do. I wouldn't go as far to say that they are getting it 100% right as i'm not qualified to say this, but I would encourage people to communicate their feelings to the IOG directly - I did when I met Geoff Webb at the Campey open day, and also another IOG representative via many emails and conversations, and yes, changes are afoot because I got out there and spoke with them, and they listened...

12 Sep 2011 by Poa7

By definition an island should be in the middle of a sea Mike - lol - just kidding :)

Mike, been nice discussing with you and all the best with your show in October. I can see where your empathy comes from now.

Cheers

13 Sep 2011 by Vic Demain

I think people should also look at who is going to the show and whether leads are good. Staffs are smaller now in all industry as machinery gets better. In years gone by, whole company staffs visited the show as a day out and to partake of all of the free food and drink available to them. Only one of those staffs had any buying power and he probably now attends alone. Does that weaken the show? Exhibitors will vote with their feet and as long as they continue to turn up, so will a crowd.
At least the IOG are offering something. More than their competitors.

13 Sep 2011 by Richard Rainford

For me the show is a place to catch up with people, if the show didnt exist then it would be no great problem to anybody bar the IOG! We wouldnt stop buying machinery, seed, fertiliser, talking to people would we if shows didnt exist would we?

For me as a buyer I would always go to the internet first to research machines especially, i have enough contacts for seed and fertiliser, and thier reps come to see me anyway at no cost to me. If i want a demo of a machine, tractor, mower then a few phone calls and I could have yard full of stuff to try at my leisure.

However machinery demos, Campeys for example, hold excellent demo days, not just in the UK but across Europe including one at thier own depot. I think more targeted, smaller days like this could be succesfull, certainly for the smaller companies, they are more personal, no parking problems and usually come with a BBQ.

Seed and fertiliser trials could be staged around the country.

Arboriculture have thier own shows, so im only taking about the turfcare industry here.

So maybe we should have a show of hands for a show?

Mines a no we dont!


As for seminars, we can attend these anyway and are probably better held through the winter at different parts of the country.

Check your contractors credentials before you use them

13 Sep 2011 by Pitchcare Peter

Some interesting comments here gents, and many concurring with private messages and emails we are receiving.

Mike - in the eleven years you have NOT been to the show it has changed beyond recognition - save for the tired layout. Both visitor and exhibitor numbers have dwindled. In addition, where once Saltex could be called a 'turf show' it has now moved into landscaping, nurseries, 4x4s, boats et al, to the point that it holds less of an attraction to groundsmen. Sure, there are still things to see for any groundsman in attendance, but it is no longer a show for groundsmen, put on, incidentally, by the Institute of GROUNDSMANSHIP.

Vic - as stated in my article, there were a good number of 'teams' visiting, and I think it is more important to look at who is not going to the show anymore. I'd also be interested to know who you consider the 'opposition' to be. BIGGA perhaps?

Interestingly, a week after the show started, the IOG have yet to release visitor figures for the final day, although they were able to rattle out the first two day's figures the following morning.

I am concerned that our two industry shows will go the same way as the two major agricultural shows - remember the Royal Show and Smithfields? - and that we will be left with a series of regional exhibitions and individual company roadshows, which will put an even greater strain on the valuable time of turfcare professionals and the costs to the suppliers/exhibitors.

The GIS template in America seems worthy of consideration in my opinion.

13 Sep 2011 by Vic Demain

Peter, without wishing to look such matters up, one imagines that the foot & mouth epidemic probably contributed hugely towards the demise of the agricultural shows.
"Opposition" may be a hard word, perhaps one should have said detractors.
There seem to be many out there who are willing Saltex to fail and I am not sure what exactly that would achieve.
As I mentioned before, I could take or leave it but good luck to any organisation having the balls to put on such an event, at least they are trying.

13 Sep 2011 by johnr

Well said Vic.
I notice with amusement that PC's pictorial coverage in this article goes to great lengths to illustrate little to no visitors. I can confirm that between 9-10am and 3.30-5.00pm this may have been the case for obvious reasons, but in between time, this is by no means a true reflection of how the show was attended. As an exhibitor, Saltex is still the UK's main trade show for our industry and one which we will continue to support.

13 Sep 2011 by Pitchcare Peter

The following is from the latest press release from the IOG -

"The 9,500 visitors (unaudited) from across the open space management sector had plenty to see on the 360 stands that housed a total of 429 companies: the showground was dominated by new products, details of many being shrouded in secrecy until the show opened."

Of course, there was loads of positivity in the rest of the press release and the first name on the list won't surprise you if you have read the above!

With regards to the images chosen, pics 1, 4 and 6 are a true representation of visitors - all were taken between 10.00am and 3.00pm. I am well aware that most shows are quiter outside those times. The images of 'gaps' was to illustrate just that.

However, all that said, I am not a detractor, rather a concerned industry professional worried that the show is both losing its focus and dying on its feet.

13 Sep 2011 by Poa7 Last edited 13 Sep 2011

"There seem to be many out there who are willing Saltex to fail"

I don't think anyone wishes this Vic?

I for one appreciate honest journalism, rather than inflated truths with the aim to .... basically .... deceive, no, to strong a word, bend the truth to the very people they serve. With trade members being charged premium rates to join, it's about time these were looked at in more detail.

There is nothing wrong with questioning? It's all part of the freedom we enjoy in the UK. The IOG are answerable to it's membership, they are not above anyone in this trade, so why shouldn't these questions be asked?

I would imagine that most all industry workers don't really give a hoot as to how many people attended the show, if they decided to go there were reasons other than attendance figures that swayed their mind! These published facts and figures (by the IOG) only serve to encourage more exhibitors to the show and increase revenue for the next.

We have the technology to categorise visitors into their specifics, like sectors and positions - are these figures ever published? Were they this year? If so, where can they be found and who correlates the data?

17 Sep 2011 by Grassman2011

Are the olympics likely to impact on both exhibitors and visitors next year?

18 Sep 2011 by Mike Last edited 18 Sep 2011

So, I was just looking at the homepage on this site, and noticed a few references to 'Saltex' - given the discussion about it's success/failure, the "inflated claims' from the iog, the "dwindling numbers", the "lack of business" etc. I just thought it a bit strange after reading all of the above, that links to the shows success (in one aspect) are now presented to us...

I might add that non of the below are from IOG sources.

http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/blec-reports-successful-saltex-with-machine-sales-off-the-stand.html

http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/the-icing-on-the-cake.html

http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/new-koro-by-imants-field-topmakers-launched-at-saltex.html

http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/imants-greenwave-for-decompacting-fine-turf-launched-at-saltex.html

http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/new-ransomes-hr300-out-front-rotary-mower-at-saltex.html

http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/latest-tm-range-of-iseki-compacts-seen-at-saltex.html

http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/etesia-choose-saltex-to-launch-an-amazing-15-new-products.html

Phone conversations with the guys at Dennis/Sisis also suggest that thy too, had a very successful and enjoyable show.

Some may think the layout is 'tired', or that it isn't strictly for turfcare any more, or the beer is too expensive - I can't comment as I mentioned above, I haven't had a chance to attend yet for one reason or another, but what I would say is that going solely on the strength of the above links, there's plenty there to make me want to attend next year. It may not be perfect, but going on the above alone, it clearly isn't all doom and gloom either.

One other thing - when knocking it, I would ask that everyone consider the hard work of the following volunteers, who give their own time to set things up: John McFarlane, Peter Butler, Les Gibbs, Tony Horne, Barry Legg, Derek Walder, Mike Carruthers and Fred Hammond - even though I was unable to attend, I would like to thank these men for their commitment to the industry - if I can get the time off next year, I am going to volunteer my services - anyone else care to show their commitment to the industry and fellow professionals by taking an active role in it? Rather than talk about it, how about getting out there and making a difference - who's with me?

20 Sep 2011 by Vic Demain

A different viewpoint http://www.cricketworld.com/buyers-rain-down-on-iog-saltex-exhibitors/29350.htm

20 Sep 2011 by Mike Last edited 20 Sep 2011

Interesting, Vic.

70% repeat bookings next year - if I were organising a show, and had 70% repeat bookings after one week, I would be happy. Like I have said a thousand times before, you will never please anyone - all you can ever hope to do is be satisfied with your own efforts, and hope that they please the majority - it would appear, according to the above link, that is actually the case, though others may beg to differ.

24 Sep 2011 by Poa7

Well, is that a different viewpoint or simply a press release written (strangely enough) by the IOG and picked up by cricketworld.

Vic, you are organising a turf show, that the IOG have helped with? Also - If you've said it a thousand times before why bother repeating it again? Who are you trying to convince?

and in other news - you can read the same old stuff next year. It's sure to be better :)

25 Sep 2011 by Pitchcare Peter

The Cricket World link offered by Vic is a general press release sent out by the IOG which, obviously, will have a positive spin. You can read the exact same thing on various other industry websites.

It is standard fodder. After every show the organisers will put out a percentage figure of exhibitors - usually around 70% - that have rebooked for next year. I don't doubt that claim for one minute. But stop and think.

70% of a reduced number of exhibitors. Does that mean a further reduction in exhibitors for the 2012 show? Perhaps it could also be stated that "30% refuse to sign up for next year's show" … Lies, damn lies and statistics. Who knows?

Mike is correct that the IOG will not please everyone. My concern has always been that, if they let things fester as they are, they'll have no one to please.

25 Sep 2011 by Mike

Ok, rather than go round in circles about what is now in the past, I would like to ask Peter, what are your recommendations to improve things?

25 Sep 2011 by Pitchcare Peter

Hi Mike,

I think Pitchcare have made their position quite clear on the matter. It began with an industry-wide survey -
http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/turf-industry-event-survey-responses.html

Followed by these updates -

http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/update-on-the-one-show.html
http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/the-one-show-an-update.html
http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/final-chance-for-one-show.html

As stated in the article above, the most recent release from the GTCIF states that; "There is no market appetite for further, new shows."

I would suggest that (and this is my opinion, not Pitchcare's) they have been spectacularly clever at maintaining the status quo without considering what the industry actually needs,

25 Sep 2011 by Mike Last edited 25 Sep 2011

Ok, all very interesting, Peter. Some valid points, some not so valid imo.

I'm sure this was probably beaten to death at the time, but for examples sake, we have already discussed statistics in this debate - we could add another statistic from one of the links above:

"For your information 15% of the companies supplied fully completed surveys and 4% of the members who received the survey also took the time to complete it in full.". Like I said, I don't believe that statistics always paint a true reflection, but if we were to rely on them, this very quote alone would suggest that most of the industry simply isn't bothered, certainly where members are concerned - is that the case... I really don't know.

To take things in a different direction, we all know that PC feels that a one show is the way forward. This may be based on statistics, personal feelings, dare I say commercial interests (?), or a genuine passion to help 'the industry'... it may even be a combination of all of those things. This brings us to the question of if PC's suggestion is such a viable one, why hasn't it happened... there must be a valid reason. We have the official line ""There is no market appetite for further, new shows." Is this really the case, or is it, as you put it Peter "they have been spectacularly clever at maintaining the status quo". Again, I don't have all of the answers, far from it, but it is clear to me that one of three things is happening:

1. The organisers do not want PC's, or anyone else interference - if this is the case, I would suggest that it is easily solvable by offering an olive branch instead of waving a big stick.

2. The organisers genuinely don't see a strong enough argument to undertake such a radical change. If this is the case, all of the facts, figures, statistics and headlines won't change things, especially when some of the statistics quoted are that 4% of members completed a survey - you will need a hell of a lot more than that to make anyone stand up and take notice.

3. There is no need for a change, or any show at all for that matter. Could it be that there just isn't the demand for a show. The fact that 10,000 or so people turned up for Saltex suggests that there is something there, but could it just be a case of that is the ceiling of the interest, irrespective of what format the show's take, one show, two show;s, regional shows etc?

My guess, and this is only an opinion which has no statistical backing as that the struggles are two fold - one is the success of the internet age, which has completely changed the business model for all of the major companies. Secondly, the ever increasing financial pressure from employers, especially when there are other, more viable options for doing business (such as the internet, demo days etc) - I know if I want to go to Saltex, it comes out of my own pocket, my employers won't pay as if it was solely for business purposes, there are far more cost effective ways.

Ultimately, Saltex is the IOG's show, and it is their's to do with it as they wish. Yes, they are answerable to their members, but are the members communicating their wishes to the IOG, and putting a strong enough case forward for change? I would suggest that if the IOG are happy with the numbers and what they have achieved, they may well ask themselves "why change it"... it would be a valid point, to be fair. If numbers are dwindling as you suggest, then there will be a financial impact, and nothing promotes action like a hit in the pocket, so if the dwindling numbers are true, then I would suggest that change will be afoot anyway.

26 Sep 2011 by Vic Demain

Does this not show that all reporters are similar to all politicians?
Put whatever spin on it to suit yourself.
Truth is people should form their own opinion.
I put on a show last year, some comments were positive, some otherwise. Fortunately most of the negative ones were from people not even there.
As long as Saltex remains at Windsor, I will go when free. If it moved to the midlands, I wouldn't even consider it. That is how important it all is to me.

26 Sep 2011 by Pitchcare Peter Last edited 26 Sep 2011

Hi Mike,

Great response

To answer some of your questions - a 1% response to any online survey/email is considered to be the norm, so we were quite happy with the returns. We also had a high number of incomplete returns which were not included.

Our olive tree is now devoid of branches!

The ultimate concern is that there is a direct comparison with the Ag industry where, only a few years ago, they had the Royal Show at Stoneleigh and the Smithfields Show in London. Both are now gone because the organisers ignored the trends, i.e. dwindling visitors, fewer exhibitors etc. etc. Now the only all encompassing ag show is in continental Europe - LAMMA and the Royal Welsh do still offer some UK contact.

As the UK is by far the largest user of turf machinery and supplies in Europe, it makes perfect sense to have the main shows here, but I fear that we will mirror the ag industry.

Pitchcare had never intended to run its own show, We simply wanted the associations to listen to the concerns of the industry and visitors alike, and consider the option of one show run jointly by the IOG and BIGGA. They have agreed not to do that.

The revenue from the shows is, of course, vitally important to the associations for training and education. If that revenue is dwindling, how will that help them?

Vic - people can only form an opinion if presented with the relevant info. What you read into that info is for you to assimilate and then form your opinion.

Saltex is a 'regional' show for you.