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Message Board - Football: Vertidraining football pitch

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hazee
Posted 10 Jan 2007
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Posts: 10

Hi all, after some advice on vertidraining, as of most County League clubs we are now struggling to get games on due to the current persistant wet weather. Does anyone know of a contractor that could vertidrain our pitch in Bromley (kent) in the next couple of weeks, also i am not sure of what the cost would be and if it would leave the playing surface covered with arisings from the holes.
I Have been running our small spiker attachment over the pitch but it does not seem to be having a great deal of effect!!!! Are there any other alternatives??
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GRG
Posted 10 Jan 2007
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Posts: 3884

Pray for it to stop raining. The ground is probably to wet to do anything now, you just have to accept that you have to keep of it untill it dries some.
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Sumomosr
Posted 11 Jan 2007
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Posts: 2569

GOGGA

It was a bit short notice, but Barry Pace was demo'ing his deep aerator at Windsor & Eton FC yesterday if you were able to attend? (See article on PC Home Page).

He has a remarkable (6 minute) video of it clearing standing water off a football pitch posted on YouTube here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgyKt0UxQwQ

and a DVD detailing the procedure & results which, I understand will be distributed at BTME but which I'm sure, he would post to you for evaluation.

His phone numbers are:
Mobile: 07990-690301
Office: 01403-865994

I saw this machine working at the recent Plympouth CC Open Day so I think perhaps he may be able to help you out.
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chrismitchell
Posted 11 Jan 2007
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Green is not necessarily beautiful.

You can make as many holes as you like in the ground. All they will do is fill up with water and make the ground even worse if there is nowhere for the water to go. Proper drainage or a more permeable layer underneath, fine, if not dont waste your money making holes whilst the ground is waterlogged.


Chris
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Barry Pace
Posted 11 Jan 2007
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'Where the future is being made today'

Morning Chris
How are you...
Couldnt agree more, any soil situation needs fully assessing before undertaking any process as the effects of miss-timed or inappropriate process will cause more problems than are solved.
There are many football pitches that have been knee-jerk vertidrained and all that has happened is that the holes have filled up with water and are making the situation worse.
Unfortunately this run of weather leaves many clubs with no choice but to try and spike/slit/tine to get games on and keep revenue coming in, some have worked some have not, the soil type and condition has dictated the results.
Its going to be a good spring for the seed companies and summer for the drainage boys one thinks.........
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Loammeister
Posted 11 Jan 2007
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Posts: 837

Uneven bounce is not hereditary

Well done yesterday Barry

Was good to see some familiar faces, meet some new ones and surprise some others!

Keep up the good work
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chrismitchell
Posted 11 Jan 2007
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Posts: 1393

Green is not necessarily beautiful.

Morning Barry, nice to see you are up and alert! It is amazing how many people think that making a few holes will drain a bog. My new chairman of green informed me the other day that a wet green could be drained by hollow coring and filling with sand! When the sand filled hole is full of water where is it supposed to go! Just completed the training of my last chairman and have got to start all over again. Bother!

Chris

PS. The lytag turned up yesterday. Next time can we have a hi ab on the delivery lorry. It was a bit tricky getting the bags off!
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Neil Dixon
Posted 11 Jan 2007
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Posts: 2288

So are you saying that Verti draining has no beneficial effect on a grass surface unless you have either a good drainage system, or free draining sub soil???

I would agree that doing it while the ground is wet is a waste of time, but if done at the right time of course it is beneficial, just by aerating it will improve the health of the grass plant, get air into the profile ( better in drier conditions of course), and improve rooting systems, and i havent even mentioned relieving compaction, which is probably the main cause of waterlogging, especially on winter surfaces.

Yes some pitches may be on surfaces that are not as responsive to verti draining as others, but all in all this is a tried and tested method of deep aeration, that can help relieve a number of symptoms on a problem pitch, and in the whole it is also relativley cheap!!
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Barry Pace
Posted 11 Jan 2007
Dr. Bunsen Honeydew
Posts: 2937

'Where the future is being made today'

Hi Neil,
I have taken posts to mean timing is critical in achieving the right or best results. if you catch the soil right you will allow it to breathe, the most important thing and allow its natural ability to drain to whatever degree to be used.
Unlucky to hit it wrong and the best draining soil with pipes every few feet will not drain. This however in the real world is not always possible to achieve especially with the current weather patterns.
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hazee
Posted 11 Jan 2007
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Posts: 10

Many thanks for all your replies, looking into various options now. Lets hope for a bit of dry weather!! it might help.
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chrismitchell
Posted 12 Jan 2007
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Posts: 1393

Green is not necessarily beautiful.

Neil, as far as aeration goes it is very beneficial if done , as Barry says, at the right time. eg. late summer early autumn when the ground is still firm and dry underneath and a good shatter of the soil is acheived. However as a method of drainage if you canot get your holes in contact with either drainage backfill of a free draining subsoil you are wasting your time you will just get holes full of water.

Chris
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boss bean
Posted 17 Jan 2007
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Posts: 37

My football/rugby pitches are based on solid clay. Digging holes this summer for sockets for rugby posts even a mini excavator was struggling to pierce the soil below plough pan level (about 12 inches). I've been continuing to vertidrain (actually hollow core) down to depth of about 6 inches. Exactly as in previous comments - after heavy rain all that happens is that the holes fill up with water. Would seem obvious that something else needs doing but not the funds at present for substantial drainage works. There is a slight natural slope to the playing field.
Suggestions please ?
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ticky21
Posted 18 Jan 2007
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Posts: 1808

Ticky supports British farmers...!!

Digi_Turf_Cond.jpg
try a contractor with a Twose turf conditioner, this vibrating moleplugh is a remarkable bit of kit, and leave mole runs from your high spot to your lo spot, prefferabl off the pitches if you can this will carry a lot of water away from the playing surface, i did it to one of my non league clubs a couple of years ago when the budget was nearly non existant and we did not have a game cancelled all season.....just a suggestion....Ticky
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Maesglas Football Club.
Posted 18 Feb 2007
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Posts: 91

Twose turf conditioner, what kind of prices do contractors charge for doing this kind of work, also I like the kit from Art Of Grass, the aerator, again what charge for hiring this piece of kit ?
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taffy
Posted 18 Feb 2007
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i operate a twose turf conditioner in the south wales, south west area on heavy clay soils bloody great piece of kit. usually charge about £350-400 per pitch depending on the size of the pitch.
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Maesglas Football Club.
Posted 18 Feb 2007
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hi taffy, we are in cardigan west wales, where as you know we have very deep pockets, that price to be honest is a little out of our league, and if we did actually spend that kind of sum, would it solve the problem we have with compaction. The pitch holds the water, and doesnt dry for days unless the weather really helps, last thursady and friday it rained, and the pitch had holding water all over one half, 3 games in 3 weeks have been called off because of this.
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taffy
Posted 18 Feb 2007
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hi paul,

well all i can say is that it would probably improve the drainage of the fields, but then the fields need to be kept open after this operation has taken place, so that water can still get to the mole channels. Mole ploughing on its own does a very good job in heavy soils. Unfortunatley when we experience very heavy rain on heavy soils they do hold water, its a fact.

with clay soils its more of a prevention than cure method when carrying out drainage works. The only real solution is to have a substantial drainage system. But as i said doing decompaction works will improve the situation if done at the correct time.
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Maesglas Football Club.
Posted 26 Feb 2007
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4 games off now in 4 weeks, we have 12 league games to go and are invloved in 4 cups, back log of fixtures to finish by early May... very frustrating, is there a quick solution to this problem with poor drainage, and if so any help would be appreciated,
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ticky21
Posted 26 Feb 2007
2010 0417HALTON0001
Posts: 1808

Ticky supports British farmers...!!

you really ought to get hold of Barry Pace at Art of Grass.that gwazee machine of his is really very good, it will decompact deep down, and let you spike the upper layer of your surface, and as Chrismitchell said earlier, you can punch holes in the turf all day long but if you aint got anywhere for the water to go you aint gained anything, this is why the Gwazee is the way forward, it lets you aerate the surface to get the water into the subsoil and away from the surface due to the depth it can work to.........watch the video clip on youtube, if its the one at croydon fc you will see how it can help............oh yeah and Barry is good at what he does,
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