Message Board - Cricket: Should I water before scarifying
18 Sep 2007 by Colin Winton
The club I play for are scarifying the square on Friday, should I water it beforehand or is it best left dry?
18 Sep 2007 by Neil Dixon
Depends on what scarifier you are using, the Graden for example will need the ground to be dry to get the most benefit, others will need a bit of moisture to enable the blades to penetrate the hard surface.
18 Sep 2007 by Colin Winton
We're hiring a couple and I believe they are of the blade type, I don't know what make they are.
18 Sep 2007 by Loammeister
Colin
What Neil says is spot on, the Graden is more vigorous than most scarifiers and can tear through the surface of a cricket square better when it is dry.
If you are using the usual hire type pedestrian scarifier then watering would be beneficial to allow you to penetrate the surface as some of these hire machines are not over robust.
If you have the scarifier from the local County Cricket Groundsman's Association, you'll find the Sisis is also ideal for purpose.
Don't forget to collect all the arisings with vigorous brushing as a 'clean' surface is essential for providing a good seed bed.
Good Luck
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
18 Sep 2007 by keith newman Last edited 18 Sep 2007
I will be using a reno-thin pedastrian scarifier with dethatching blades on our cricket square will it need watering before use. This machine will be borrowed from our local golf club and is not a hired machine. Keith
18 Sep 2007 by Loammeister
Keith
As you say the machine is more of a golf course specific scarifier so will need all the help it can get from some watering before you scarify, if you hope to get into the surface.
As long as you don't have a serious thatch problem you might be ok, but use of the graden and similar vigorous scarifiers is encouraged on cricket tables due to their ability to get down into the rootzone where thatch accumulates.
Good Luck
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
18 Sep 2007 by jlawrence
Keith, I've never heard of a renothin but from what I can see it's made by Ryan and to me looks similar to the triorake. If that's the case then yes, you need to water prior to scarifying to have any hope of getting into the surface.
I hope you haven't got a thatch problem as this machine isn't going to be capable of getting more than a few mm into the ground.
Flood the square a day or so prior to scarifying and you may be ok. There's no point just sprinkling some water over the surface - you need to floodup around 24 hours in advance.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
18 Sep 2007 by keith newman
Our cricket club is hoping to purchase second hand scaryfier and spiker to keep the thatch problem at bay are ther any suggestions to what make and type to buy . Keith
18 Sep 2007 by jlawrence
suggestions would depend upon your budget.
Assuming there isn't a major thatch problem, for a scarifier look at something like the Sisis rotorake, for a spiker look at the groundsman industries stuff.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
18 Sep 2007 by Loammeister Last edited 18 Sep 2007
What's the condition of your square Keith and where are you? It would be interesting to guage what you need to combat, JL has an expert knowledge of removing masses of thatch having done so at his old cricket ground in 2006.
Each County has (or should have) a County Groundsman's Association which is equipped with a trailer with machinery for hire at very reasonable rates. Many include the Sisis scarifier which is suitable for most cricket situations, perhaps you may not need to invest your hard earned funds in buying a machine.
Send us some more information, if you want to keep anything confidential you can use the private message element of the forum if anything is sensitive.
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
18 Sep 2007 by Collie Last edited 18 Sep 2007
I've ordered a scarifier called a Negri for the weekend. Its brand new and has a grass box. The machine specs say it penetrates to 30mm depth. The selection of scarifiers over here is poor. Nobody had a Graden or even a Sisis. I'm wondering if anyone's had experience with this machine before. As its an Italian make, I'm somewhat sceptical of its performance capabilities.
18 Sep 2007 by trubs
If it acts as Italian Tanks did in the War, It'll only work in reverse!
18 Sep 2007 by Steve63
30mm depth with a box? good luck collie 
Regards
Steve
Don't talk to me about Contractors Wonka, I am one myself......
18 Sep 2007 by jlawrence
Will have to be the mother of all boxes 
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
18 Sep 2007 by Grassman2011
And i hope that you have a strong back Collie.
18 Sep 2007 by Collie Last edited 18 Sep 2007
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I guess I'll be emptying it on every run. I'll let you know how I get on. That scarifier is called a Negri not Vegri as I'd previously posted. I read the name from the image on the hire company's web site. Guess I'll be needing some specs soon.
22 Sep 2007 by Collie
Just to let you know, the Italian scarifier worked a treat. Did 4 passes using Mario's template. It pulled out an incredible amount of rubbish. I got the machine working smoothly at a 15mm depth. 30mm was too much of an ask.
As for the grass box, it was tossed aside after the first run not even getting the 22 yards before filling up. The machine had a working width of aprox 450mm, so covered the ground pretty quickly. I'd definitely use it again. So scarifying, seed and top-dressing completed over Fri and Sat, in glorious sunshine. I'm absolutely knackered but well happy with the work.
Would like to say a big thanks to all the lads and lasses on Pitchcare for their help and support throughout the season,. A big thanks to Dave Goodjohn from GSB, as my loam arrived in plenty of time and in the right place, neither of which had happened with my previous supplier in several attempts.
Regards
Collie
23 Sep 2007 by eddyinfreehold
I'd like to pass my thanks to all the contributors also. We completed our renovations yesterday, though were hampered by the weather. I can assure you it's not hard or dry in North Lancashire at the moment! Without the contributions and photos put up on this site, I would have struggled to persuade our club to do what I wanted to do.
With rain on Monday last, I could not scarify until Tuesday but achieved 7 passes using a 6hp machine called an Eliet 501 provided by Hartley Tool Hire, an excellent local company based in North Lancs and South Lakes. They very kindly put on a brand new knife reel for me when I pointed out it was pretty blunt. It helps to book the machine a month in advance and check the state of the blades when you book it. When you need the machine, it's then in tip top order and ready to go. I got to a depth of about 15-17mm and produced an amazing amount of rubbish. The most efficient way of getting it cleared up was by making my last pass pulling the scarifier backwards whereby it piled the dross into neat windrows. Using a Toro rotary mower set on the bump stops I bagged of the stuff into 1 tonne builders bags which is quicker than a wheelbarrow. These can be driven off the pitch with a car towing hitch. I took 7 full big bags off our 13 deck square! The final cleanup was done with a cylinder mower set as low as possible with the reel separated from the bottom blade by about a millimetre or so. This created another big bag of dusty dross. We were set to seed and top dress Thurs afternoon but rain followed on Thursday until Friday lunchtime. It was still too damp Until Saturday lunchtime but luckily the scarification lines just remained. A quick brush first and we were able to seed, top dress and level by 2pm. It was raining again at 10pm! I went on an ECB course a year or two back and it was interesting to hear the lecturer. He had a 10 foot wide trulute made for him, so I thought I'd follow his advice. I could only afford a 6 foot example but it's brilliant! We applied the loam at 10 bags per deck, roughly luted the pyramids down, then cross levelled the square with this 6' trulute. It was too heavy for one person but easy with two pulling it. Two passes with the trulute then three with a drag mat and the job was done. It helps to have bodies around for the loam, about 6 minimum.
Anyway, thanks to all the experts for their superb advice, it makes the amateur club groundman's job a lot easier if such great advice is openly shared.
My only problem now is addressing worm casts because it's so wet. But that's another matter I'll bring up in a week or so!
The image shows 10 of the 13 decks this morning in the rain. The other three are to the left of the nearest artificial track.
23 Sep 2007 by jlawrence
Eddy, as you've only just managed to convince your committee to allow you to carry out 'proper' end of season renovations, one thing you may want to consider doing is inviting them all to look at the square in a months' time. Once they see how good the square looks (compared to other years), followed by how much better it'll be next year, you should have no arguments from them in future years.
As for worm casts, you have 2 or 3 options:
1) treat the square with carbendizim
2) switch the square daily (or every other day).
3) brush the square - though this risks smearing the casts.
Either way I'd wait until the new grass is established a bit - ie until you've done the first cut.
I prefer to brush or switch the square at this time of year as I believe (rightly or wrongly) that the worms perform a service at this time of year by helping to ameliorate the new loam into the surface. If the money was available I'd spray in the very early spring to try and keep the worms away from the surface when I was preparing it during the summer.
I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on this.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
23 Sep 2007 by Steve63
Worms aerate, bring soil to the surface and take organic matter into the soil profile where it is broken down. I feel that worms do a heck of a lot of good, however it comes at a price, casts on the surface which disurb the playing surface and provide perfect seed beds for weeds, also offering a food source for moles and other small critters.
I guess it really depends upon how much time you have to spend and wether your surface is in play all the year round.
regards
steve
Don't talk to me about Contractors Wonka, I am one myself......
23 Sep 2007 by Ben1 Last edited 23 Sep 2007
Ive just managed to complete scarification of my square but have a worm problem, and am wondering whether to spray the square before seeding to kill them first or wait for a few weeks after seeding. I mean personally i prefer to get rid of them as the worm casts smear the new seedlings on the first cut.
Only thing is , how long after planting new grass seed should you wait before spraying with carbendazim? 1st leaf, 2nd leaf stage?? Its a low rate fungicide so it cant do new grass any good can it? Cant for the life of me find out from anyone.
Any ideas?
23 Sep 2007 by Grassman2011
Ben,
If the soil is damp, rain forcast and worms are active, then treat now, but be prepared to possibly have to treat again in approx. six to eight weeks.
23 Sep 2007 by eddyinfreehold
Thanks for all the feedback guys:
In fairness to my committee, they knew what had to be done but didn't have the courage of their convictions when it came to scarifying. they were terrified of the ploughed field effect. Various images and comments such as Mario's helped greatly.
Worms: this problem has to be addressed. I suspect most groundsmen wouldn't put up with what i do, and the majority of evenly grass covered decks in the area are all worm treated. Worms are usually a problem in March to earlty May, then late September. This year owing to the high water table (we are only 6 metres above sea level) they have been casting all year. In dry windy conditions when day length is greater this is not a problem and the square can be brushed or dragmatted by 11 am. At the end of the season when the outfield needs to be roped as late as noon or 1pm, it will be obvious that the casts are still wet an hour before the match starts. The prepared deck can be individually cared for to solve this problem but the rest of the square can look the pits. i love the affect worms have on the square in terms of drainage and aeration but the quantity of broad leaved weeds introduced and the patchy areas produced from mowing and rolling are both visually and practically unacceptable.
My target post renovation is to spray with a worm killer/suppressant, perhaps 3 weeks from now, maybe in late November, and again in late March. Carbendizim is I assume the preferred product.
As Ben1 points out, are there any problems with spraying such a product on newly germinated grass on the square. Does it have a phytotoxic effect?? What is the preferred trade product of you pro groundsmen and who is your preferred supplier?? Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.
Every black dot on the image attached is a wormcast and the rain keeps falling!
Eddy
24 Sep 2007 by jlawrence
Eddy, good to hear that the committee knew what needed to be done. Now you've done it once they'll have no problems with doing it next year once they've seen the results.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
25 Sep 2007 by britboy
might be worth looking at a product called wormstat which i am trialling this autumn.It is supplied by ecosolve,the deep drilling company and is not a hazardous chemical but contains something that worms dont like on the skin and sends them down for up to 12 weeks.I will keep you all posted on how i get on.
britboy
26 Sep 2007 by eddyinfreehold
Is this a product related to mustard or mustard oil? I experimented briefly with mustard in the spring. It was very very effective at bringing UP worms but as I was using Colmans English dispersed in water, it proved difficult to spray without blocking the nozzles :-)
26 Sep 2007 by britboy
i believe it is sourced from a type of tree in india.It is quite thick and needs to be diluted well from what i remember but worth it if it works
britboy
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