Message Board - Health & Safety: MP3 Players, Walkmans etc
31 Oct 2007 by Number7
What is the general opinion on greenkeepers/ grounds person’s listening to MP3’s or walkmans whilst they are working (cutting grass or tractor driving)?
Picked this up from a thread from a well know greenkeepers website where someone wrote that it is a health and safety issue if staff do this.
My tractor is fitted with a stereo and is also my car. I never feel that my concentration is impaired whilst driving to work.
I know some people who will remain nameless what read books whilst verti-draining fairways. (Which I don’t agree with)
Any thoughts???
Cheers
31 Oct 2007 by mickjm
When using machinery of any kind the use of any device which 'may' take your concentration from the task at hand shouldn't be used. If the machine is already fitted with a radio etc then ok, but one which needs 'working' shouldn't be allowed, just as smoking whilst using any type of machinery used to p1ss me off, to the point where I don't let anyone use mp3's/radios or smoke!
Its something which can distract you quite easily, particularly with earphones in(if they drop out etc) and theres a danger of not being totally aware of your surroundings because you're listening to whats being drilled into your ears rather than taking any notice of whats going on around you!
No Fork handles....Handles for forks!!
31 Oct 2007 by dave r-b Last edited 31 Oct 2007
Its not so much a concentration issue, more the fact they reckon that it is the fact you wouldnt be able to hear things going on around you so therefore if you were listening to your music you may not hear someone approaching you and an accident could happen. i must admit that my music helps a great deal when mowing my outfield and as for rolling then a good book is an essential.
Im sorry but the whole bloody country as gone H&S mad.
im now an ex groundsman but hey old habits die hard
31 Oct 2007 by sipho
wouldent be able to hear things that are going on around you - in that case should one be wearing ear defenders??
I have Tinitis and advocate wearing them at all times - that includes in the workshop - Hammering Mainly, Banging posts in etc
I however would not advocate reading whilst driving any sort of machine.
cheers sip
Gogga International Affairs Officer
31 Oct 2007 by ticky21
what about pouring out a cup of tea from ya thermos whilst vertidraining,
Ticky supports British farmers...!!
31 Oct 2007 by dave r-b
Sip i agree totally about the ear defenders debate, i work for a local council and they say you must wear ear defenders whilst operating any machinery even if out on the open road (triples and tractors without cabs) a lot os the lads put their ear plugs inside those ear defenders. however they have now ben threatened with disciplinery action if they are caugh doing that.
The book remark was just a jibe at the H&S gone mad world.
im now an ex groundsman but hey old habits die hard
31 Oct 2007 by Mal
I think it is all to to with what the ear defenders mask out and what a thumping tune can cover up.
Ear defenders do not cut out all noise and if you look at ear defenders you will find that you can buy to suit particular jobs. In effect they cusion the effects of particular frequencies and lower the Db.
Driving mowers with an MP3 thumping away loudly is more likely to mask out noise from the surrounding environment.
I have always worried about this. A case in point, the amount of times I have seen a pedestrian on a pavement go to cross a road totally oblivious to cars around him. A problem that the player manufacturers are well aware of and if you look at the new technology being supplied in earphones you will notice that they no longer sit "in" the ear as they used to but are now "held just in front" of the ear. This means that as well as being able to hear the music at least the user has a better chance participating and reacting to sounds from his surroundings.
Despite this, I would still agree with the council and anyone else that bans the use of them. I have been too long in this game and seen to many times, a simple repair complicated because the operator didn't hear the machine complaining due to something or other.
Geography is everywhere
31 Oct 2007 by LittleDave
I couldn't work without my iPod. I don't have it on loud. But I also have ear defenders on, so my hearing is already reduced...it's one of my most vital pieces of equipment!
31 Oct 2007 by jlawrence
I can see that there is a H&S issue here.
But as far as I'm concerned to hell with H&S - if anyone thinks I'm sitting doing preseason rolling on 2 squares without my ipod then they can go forth an multiply.
If they demand that I wear ear defenders then I'll get a pair with sounds built in - they still meet the relevant standards (if you pay enough for them). So there isn't as big a H&S issue as some people make out - if there was then the 'sounds enabled' ear defenders wouldn't meet the standards.
The thing I'm most concerned about with my ipod is the headphone cord - I don't like things dangling about when I'm using any equipment.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
31 Oct 2007 by dave r-b
i attach my mp3 to a lanyard then hang it round my neck and under my jacket (shirt or vest depending on the weather) so that all the dangley bits (associated with the mp3) are hidden and therefore wont get caught in anything.
as for not hearing anything, i can hear sod all around me anyway once the rollers thundering away
im now an ex groundsman but hey old habits die hard
31 Oct 2007 by Neil Dixon
Ear defenders now being used should have a SNR rating ( single number rating) you need to Identify the Db level of the machine you are using to ensure you are wearing the right ear protection ( info can be found on the HSE website)
It is not sufficent to purchase a "one size fits all" ear defenders for all machines, as they all produce different Db levels, and as have been said above, the idea is not to isolate yourself from other noise, but to reduce the immediate threat of the noise of the machine.
From a companies perspective, if they go to the expense / trouble of ensuring all staff comply with the noise regulations by supplying the relevant ear protection ,and then they wear there ipod beneath the ear defenders, then they would rightly look to ban staff from wearing them.
Again, educating staff why they shouldnt wear them beneath there ear defenders is probably the best course of action, and if they still wanted to it is there lookout.
31 Oct 2007 by RWP
What about the Stihl ear defenders with integrated FM radio? I have a set and they are v. good. they have a Safety limiter so they son't get loud enough to damage your hearing or block out all other sounds.
31 Oct 2007 by Steve63
I currently use standard headphones, good quality ones attatched to an MP3 player. I trust my experience, awareness of what is going on around me and sensible volume control. Really I think the job that you are doing will dictate wether it is practicle. If a company has a policy on this issue then of course that is a different matter.
Regards
Steve
Don't talk to me about Contractors Wonka, I am one myself......
1 Nov 2007 by Rob Goodes
Down Under It is a offence when that can lead to being given warnings, after warnings can lead you to being sacked. A big no no.
However some courses and clubs let you listen to it as long as you like.
It is easy to see the case for not listening to music while you operate machinery.
How do greenkeepers earn a living!!! ;-)
1 Nov 2007 by Nifty Last edited 1 Nov 2007
Ear defenders should always be worn between 10am and 1pm in case the John Gaunt show on talksport is encountered or even worse his sidekick (pictured here) the Moose.
Seriously though it is a contentious issue wether the degree of headwear reccomended will actually desensitise you to your surroundings or wether a walkman type device will distract you making you more likely to have an accident , it would be interesting to have some statistics on accidents related to these issues.
Ticky I,ve heard of tractor drivers who can roll their own Rizlas and all whilst driving
Its got to be purrrfect
2 Nov 2007 by Torch
Verti-draining is dull and let's be honest, not that hard. Once the tool is in the ground and you're crawling along you can roll a fag and read a book etc. When I first started we used to get out and walk alongside to see if we'd lost tines!
It was 'Jane Eyre', not Pride and Bloody Prejudice!
The answer is None more black.
2 Nov 2007 by Andy Matthews
I agree with jlawrence pre-season rolling or any rolling for that matter without my Mp3 player is unbelievabley boring, I also have it on when cutting the outfield, if you are aware of whats around you then you should spot any danger anyway and doesn't the idiot walking his dog have a duty to stay out of your way as well, if people kept their pets, kids and themselves under control life would be much easier.
2 Nov 2007 by Chris_1
Don't see a problem with wearing them for jobs like raking bunkers etc. It will improve the morale of your staff as well if they can listen to music while working!
2 Nov 2007 by ticky21
When I first started we used to get out and walk alongside to see if we'd lost tines! ......whilst we are discussing the merits and safety issues of wearing personal stereo/MP3 etc, to get out of a fully operational machine and not be in any kind of control is just plain stupidity, this is the kind of thing that makes HSE bods give us a hard time as it is, and i take offence to the remark that vertidraining is not hard, a vertidrain is a complex machine, and has tro be used properly and watched ALL the time for changing ground conditions, otherwise the machine is bucking out of the ground leading to all sorts of damage if not careful...
Ticky supports British farmers...!!
2 Nov 2007 by sipho
Hear hear Ticky
Gogga International Affairs Officer
2 Nov 2007 by dave r-b
leaving a machine whilst running no matter how easy the task! is just plain stupid, the easiest task i can think of is rolling a wicket, you are just crawling along.... but i wouldnt dream of getting off the roller and letting it go off on its own. yes i wear an mp3 but again im carefull as to dangley bits and my headphones sit loosely on and not in the ear, rolling and out field mowing (on an Allett regal 36") can be a touch tedious, but as others have said im aware of the surroundings and to be honest i dont get many people around the ground during the day, (there asleep getting ready to go out robbing by night) i jest not.
im now an ex groundsman but hey old habits die hard
4 Nov 2007 by Torch
I wondered how long it would take the self-righteous brigade to stick their oar in. Yes it's definitely a stupid thing to do, but notice I said when I first started. Did you never do anything stupid when you were new and inexperienced?
Setting depths and all that stuff does require concentration but sitting in a tractor for 15 minute block as it crawls along a fairway IS NOT HARD. Why would anyone take offence at that? Life is too short. I take offence at things that matter in life and don't worry about trivia like the remarks of someone I may not agree with on a message board.
I don't like falling out with people so let's agree to disagree or this forum will go the same way as Greenkeeping world and the BIGGA forum with people unwilling to post because someone jumps on you the second you say something they disagree with.
Peace and love.
The answer is None more black.
4 Nov 2007 by ticky21
SELF RIGHTEOUS..???....STICK THEIR OAR IN.??.... what complete cobblers....if you knew you were going to invite some back lash. why the f*** put your thread on in the first place, yes we did do some daft things when we were first in this trade or even starting out in the working world, but i would not make light of it knowing HSE is on our case all day long, so to me your comment is FAR from trivia.... an unmannned 4 to 6 ton working machine is hardly trivia..im not agreeing to disagree about this, your comment was pathetic..
Ticky supports British farmers...!!
6 Nov 2007 by Yetanotherdave
Yeah i love reading books whilst Verti Draining, however i normally read the same line over and over again sometimes! And my bloody stripes sometimes go off coarse!! I ensure i go really slow so i can get through a good book by the time i finish. ******** to health and safety if i happen to run someone over whilst going 0.2miles an hour i should be congratulated not reprimanded!!
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