My members are obsessed by green speed.
Early season after hollow coring our greens were 240 (8ft) on the stimp but running smooth, not good enough!
Give them 3m (10ft) bumpy as hell and they love it.
There are 3 or 4 times a year when I have the chance to keep the irrigation down and get them very fast and firm. The members cant play the greens and the only complaint is that the greens are not running like that all the time.
Life would be so much easier without golfers.
Hi Tom,
Didn't I see in an earlier thread that you use growth regulators occasionally?
I have found that Primo Maxx applied every 3 weeks during the growing season.... for me the growing season is around mid April to mid-November.... gives me an extra couple of feet on the stimp. I find this fines up the leaf blade and encourages an upright growth habit. This in conjunction with a fairly low N input produces greens that are quick enough to keep the golfers happy. I have been using growth regulators for nearly 10 years and find them a very useful tool.
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
Hi Ken,
Last week was the first applicationin in our fortnightly application of growth regulators. As a rule of thumb we also verti-cut, top dress and spoon feed fortnightly also. The problem we have is that we have to apply so much water, I have some greens that will die in a warm sunny afternoon.
Of course the biggest problem is the golfers and their perception of what makes a good greens. Top of my members list is speed, not quality of roll.
When our bigger tournaments are on we can water by hand and not only speed them up but also firm them up. Its fun to see them criss cross our plateau greens then.
Another complaint is that the putting green runs faster than the others on the course. From the clubhouse side to the end of the putting green is slightly downhill, I tell them to put in the other direction but once golfers have something in their heads its stuck there.
Thanks for taking the time out to reply.
Tom, let me assure you it's not just golfers, we are three weeks into the cricket season and already I can't wait for October. They all think they are experts on what makes a pitch and the worst part is the committee are also as ignorant.
Don't let them grind you down, do what you know is right and be happy with your work, if it's not good enough then that is the players problem.
Esau, I'm just sharing my frustration :).
The rewards of the job make up for the stresses and the stresses motivate me to get better. We had a great big thunder storm yesterday evening so thats the top dressing and the fertiliser washed in (or away:)) and the place looks and is playing great.
I'm away out to play golf.
I will be interested for other views on greenspeed especially ones applicable to other circumstances.
6 May 2008 by Torch
My own experience is of regional differences. In Surrey they are obsessed by speed, although most of them stab at the ball like an epileptic wasp. In the North West however, most of them want true greens that roll out gently. If you get them quick then that's a bonus.
The answer is None more black.
Hi Tom,
I don't know your course, but it sounds like you have members from hell!
But my thoughts on your last post is that you work hard to speed up your greens by applying TGR's and spoon feeding but still get complaints about speed. You say you must water heavily but I can't see why? Is it because of the rootzone? The climate? shallow roots?
I am assuming you are maintaining creeping bentgrass? How much grass are you taking off in your buckets on 18 holes? Are you hand mowing or rid-on mowing? what height are you cutting at? What is the depth of your thatch? How much N are you applying per hectare per season?
Hit me Tom!
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
Hi Ken,
There may be some of the information your looking for here
www.pitchcare.com/message/message/15098
The 18-9-18 (approx 10g/m2, any more N and the bentgrass goes fat overnight) will do for the month, it pissed down yesterday and the grass is moving, everywhere. A wee spray of some more TGR and then hand water, hand water, hand water.
I expect a bit of a flush of growth this week although the triple mower, after the top dressing was emptied 4 times for 19 greens. We are cutting at 4mm, groomers at 3.5mm, with the triple 3 times a week. As of Thurday the triple will only be used in double cutting, its getting a regrind, thats it in the shade for a wee while, I like a set of fresh blades in reserve.
We cannot mow greens under 3.5 as we have a few "scalpy" bits on greens.
As for the thatch, I dont have much. There was no real winter here, very mild, so at the moment there is a bent/poa mix. Later the bent will take over in places and the thatch will establish.
Hope that answers your question Ken
Tom,
I assume you were following a similar fertiliser regime last year? How much actual N/ha did you apply for the year?
P.S. www.pitchcare.com/message/message/15098.... how do I retrieve this? Cause I am not having much luck!
Ken
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
Hi Ken,
I have sent you a message.
The link I sent you is another post I started
"I expect a fantastic response to this"
7 May 2008 by turfjack Last edited 7 May 2008
Tom
Greenspeed the neverending debate, I sympathise with you. Your post has brought up a few questions for me. First I'm trying to understand why the greens are smoother after aeration, they should be smoother once they heal helping greenspeed. It looks like you are topdressing which goes a long way to helping smooth thing out, (something I feel a lot of guys overhere forget.)
I know Ken is a big fan of growth regulators, I'm not; there is a place for them in certain circumstances but I'm not a believer especially on bentgrass greens. I'm guessing that you are mowing three days a week because of the regulation, if it is not a labour issue, you should try mowing everyday. I have used regulators on greens in the past and it certainly helped maintain greenspeeds by keeping up on the mowing under regulation even though you do not remove a lot of grass. I'm also not sure if I read it right but did you groom after topdressing? (If so next time raise them until the topdressing is worked in)
As for your watering it sounds like you do hand water. I'm not sure why you feel the need to keep bentgrass on push-up greens wet (is compaction a problem?) Bentgrass with good root structure is a tough plant in dry conditions and can be pushed especially if you got good moisture retention in the push-up greens.
Im assuming the 18-9-18 is a granular, is there slow release in it or a lot of ammonium sulphate or urea? Forgive me but its still early here and converting to imperial at this hour is hard!! but the amount of N over a month doesn't seem bad but you need to look at how it arrives. If you are seeing a 'flush' it is not ideal as it creates peaks and valleys in the fertiliser program. I'd agree with Ken that if it's possible spoon feed weekly or maybe go at half rates of the granular biweekly.
I don't know your budget, type of course etc but memberships always want more. It may not hurt to inform them that if they want higher greenspeeds that with that comes more turf stresses and higher maintenance inputs that in turn cost more to accomplish. Give them some hard numbers, it may scare them away from wanting faster greens.....
It's easy to comment on something from half way around the world, without exactly knowing your situation so excuse me if I misinterperated something.
Alan
Alan FitzGerald, LedgeRock Golf Club
Hi Alan,
Thanks for your reply.
This is my 5th season at this course and I think I have the N controlled to a certain extent now. The 2g we put on is 0.6g/m2 slow release. If I apply anything at the recomended rate thats when I would get a flush, that does not happen any more. I take the greens to the limit with the N and have 2 very good indicator greens for dollar spot and anthracnose. Upon their appearance I would go for compete slow release as we can have a windy 35+ degrees, 2g/m2 N max.
I forgot to mention when the greens are not triple mown they are mown with walk mowers. Next week we have 3 new 122F's and they will be used daily. As for the groomers, they only got put in on Tuesday as most of the sand was gone after a perfect thunder storm. I find a few afternoon cuts can take care of the nap better but its a luxurious thing to do.
As for the moisture retention, it is excellente where the trees dont sook it out. In the first year we squueegeed green 4 after a thunderstorm and had to water the other half in the afternoon. That tree next to the green is dying, what an improvement. I will post a profile picture of one of the greens, there is a lot there to look at.
As for the members, they demand! Its real fun and games, we hollow cored fairways in Autumn last year only 30cm deep, the depth of the thatch. The improvement is immense, one guy complained his ball ended up in a tine hole when he eventually hit a fairway, I had to smile.
Although it is an neverending debate it would be interesting to hear some more opinions and strategies.
My geens are exactly 1Ha so it has to be metric for me
Hi Tom
I don't know if it's good or bad that members are the same all around the world!!
I kinda figured that you forgot to menction the hand mowers and the timing of the groomer that's why I asked.
It looks like you've most things covered and like I said its hard to offer suggestions without seeing the course daily as you do.
The only other suggestions I have is to keep up the topdressing and see if it helps with the scalping when lowering the height of cut. Another is to look into a greens roller. They have been proven to add up to a foot of speed and don't have any determental effects to the turf (due to their low psi they don't compact either.)
It must be nice to have a nice round area to work with its a pain here working with imperial.
Alan
Alan FitzGerald, LedgeRock Golf Club
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