7 Nov 2008 by HG
Our local Parish Council have been looking long and hard at Draining their football pitch but the budget does not in any way match the cost
The soil does have a clay content and the pitches are prone to suface water . The pitch has been veridrained in the past and their extent of machinery to help is an old sisis quadraplay
The soil profile does show some compaction at 2-3 in and a harder pan at 12+ in with the latter I guess due to the pitch being a field a long time ago
Searching around I have seen the Youtube video of the Gwazae deep probe airator using compressed air and I was really impressed ,wondered if they carried out the following works
Working from below up
Gwazaed the pitch
Sand slit the pitch
Quadrplay as normal
The above would I guess cost a fraction of the cost of drainage and be the next best thing to laying drains, and given the current climate money is not going to increase
to save for drainage systems
Has anybody had experience of the above? if the cost is realitively cheap should deep airation be done every 3-4 years (even compared to the lifespan of a field drain it may still be cheaper based over the same number of years)or do you think I'm barking up the wrong tree ?
7 Nov 2008 by Neil Dixon Last edited 7 Nov 2008
HG,
Any cultural methods of aeration have to be the 1st step when addressing drainage issues. IMO.
Even if you did have the budget for an all singing all dancing drainage system, would you have the resources to mainatain an aeration programme to keep the surface above the drains free draining? If yes, then see if this programme now would give you some improvements in our surface.
Even if no aeration has been carried out for many years, it would be unusual to see no improvement in the surface.
No doubt many would disagree with me but i can talk from current experience, though it is not neccessarily going to be the same for every site.
Sand sliting is usually only beneficial if you have a drainage system in situ, it is best suited as a means to get water from the surface into the lateral drains.
Mr G,
I reckon your best bet is to talk to a number of local sportsturf contractors.
From what you say it might be as well to get the site Earthquaked/Groundbroke ( 
)* and/or vertidrained. In an ideal world you'd use both in tandem but, as we all know, t'ain't an ideal world!
The application of a free draining silica sand would probably help as well.
Just thought I'd give you the benefit of my absolutely vast experience!! 
I await being shot down in flames!!
*Was referring to the Groundbreaker machine
From the posh end of the room!!
8 Nov 2008 by fidget
Mole ploughing can offer a relatively cheap option depending on the clay type. Make a tennis ball size lump of the clay from about 8-12" down & put it in a bucket of water overnight, if it stays in shape then this could be a possibilty.
I believe it can last for up to 7 years.
You say it is PC land & not yours, a lot will depend on their determination to find the funding.
I found 'Fields in Trust' are very helpful.
www.fieldsintrust.org
As a Parish Council we have just been through a similar scenario, we went for new drainage & sand banding, £30,000 later we are slowly winning.
Where are you located?
8 Nov 2008 by Barry Pace Last edited 8 Nov 2008
HG,
Sounds like a bloomin good plan to me but I am ever so slightly biased .......
Obviously I can only give general comment here, mindful of the Pitchcare code, and based on generalisation, not knowing any site specific details.
The most important thing to understand is if you have a Drainage problem you will still need Drainage to be installed to fully rectify the problem, the Gwazae may be able to reduce the problem in the interim and tide you over getting the best out of the pitch for now until funding is available but like all machines it has its limitations.
However if you have a compaction problem then Deep Probe Aeration can provide a massive improvement and give any subsequent standard aeration be it vertidraining, earthquaking or even deep slitting somewhere to get relief to. From the sound of the depths and profile info I would assume that the soils ability to drain (be it even limited being clay) is being reduced by the Pan layer.
Sometimes this may take more than one visit to achieve on the worst instances, again depending soil type, condition and degree of compaction, but most respond well with good soil movement. In conditions like they are in the SE at the moment the surface is very soft and other aeration will be needed in conjunction to keep the top of the soil at the surface ‘open’. From our observations and feedback from New Zealand the soil type and usage will dictate duration but certainly the fissures and cracks created remain open at depth for some time meaning revisits would range any when from yearly to every 3-4 years, invariably compaction formed by usage and maintenance operations occurs from the top down and the best longevity is when a good aeration programme is set in place.
As Mr Dixon says sand slitting is designed to provide a connection between the surface and drainage to maximise the movement of water into a piped system and on the majority of soils will be a false economy to undertake without a drainage system below.
I fully agree with Aladdin & Fidget that you should look to using good sports contractors locally for Vertidrains/Goundbreakrs/Earthquakes/moling etc as part of an ongoing Aeration Regime and this may solve your problems but from the sound of your post and your knowledge of the soil profile/problems I am guessing you have already been this route and it is the old Plough Pan (or possible newer Aeration Pan!) that is causing the problem
PM me or call on 07990-690301 so I can give you contact details of the nearest machine to you.
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
9 Nov 2008 by HG
Hi Neil
Thanks for your reply I do think the budget would be stretched for ongoing maintenance assuming that the money appeared for the initial drainage programme hence thinking of more modest solutions.
The pitch I’m told was vertidrained and sanded about 3 1/2 years ago and while it showed improvement is not there yet
Looking at the redexim website vertidrainers can go to an extreme of 16in but I think the machine used was a middle of the road unit and never touched the current pan.
I was only thinking of sand slitting to create a increased peculation of water in to the subsoil assuming that the subsoil was in some way decompacted ,what other options could there be ? many thanks
Hi Figet
I have to admit I have a agricultural background and always think of moleploughing as traction needy and horsepower greedy would that not possibly cause more damage than good ? ( sorry probably more negative than I should but remember a friend shakerating a park with grass disks(I know different from moling) and while initially it looked good ,later it suffered from slump and left undesirable grooves )
I will pass on the Fields in Trust link many thanks
Hi Barry
Do you have a Gwazae ? if so what is it like
Like all councils they would like the best and that’s not always achievable and so they have to look at the next best thing .I was reading about drainage, you have to work the top middle and bottom if the quadraplay or similar works the top should there be a mechanical or physical method of drainage in the middle zone ,and for the bottom is the gwazae the only option ? I think that it can get to the depth of 700mm without causing surface damage ? other than coming back to drains or mole/subsoiling .
What is the life span/cost of a football pitch drainage system at a guess ? V every other year vertidraining/gwazae alternating between the 2 or similar.
I guess if pitch drainage is 30k over 15 years that equates to 2k/year I guess aggressive decompaction would be a lot less (and has to be to fall in budget) and also spreading the costs
Thanks for your number and would like to at least look at a machine working if one is near many thanks
9 Nov 2008 by fidget
Hi HG,
Sports moles are a different beast to agricultural ones, they have been heavily trialled and used in the right way they can produce good results for relatively low costs. I went to a local cricket club which uses them a lot to good effect. If you get some local contractors in to give their thoughts & prices on all remedies,including mole-ploughing & then go from there.
I'm afraid our £30k was just for starters, we've also invested in equipment, including a shockwave & we've just asked our Parish for another £10k (approx) this year for sand,seed, fertilisers, labour etc. to maintain what we've got & hopefully continue to improve it. I'm lucky & work for a pro-active council & they now know that there will be a substantial amount required annually just to stay where we are.
I've seen Barry's probe in action and it is impressive and I'm sure he would love get it out again but the PC will still need to implement a long term programme and that will cost a lot of their precept.
I've seen Barry's probe in action and it is impressive and I'm sure he would love get it out again...........
Are you having a laugh!
You all hate us and we don't care!
Just a little word of caution concerning the use of the Earthquake. The machine does a superb job on nearly all of our fields which have a 'normal' clay content and is used several times per season per pitch when the weather conditions are right. However, one of our fields has a very high clay content and we find that if we have a dry summer and the earthquake has been used during the previous 6/8 months then the field opens up in quite alarming cracks along the lines left by the Earthquake. Don't know how it happens or if anything can be done about it, other than not using the machine.
Presentation is the name of the game.
9 Nov 2008 by Barry Pace Last edited 9 Nov 2008
ROFL @ bob I have tears from laughin soooo much...
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
Hi Bob,
Yes I was.
The Gwazae works a bit like his 'Mrs' pictured above, but imagine she is looking up.
Only joking Barry, I'm sure she is lovely & I've always said 'beauty is only a light switch away'.
10 Nov 2008 by Barry Pace Last edited 10 Nov 2008
HG,
Yes I have one of 6 in the UK, it is immensely impressive when conditions are condusive, if it is too hard in the summer only previously probe aerated areas generally are feasible, It still works very well if it is very wet like at the moment but the very top can close back over when played or trafficked, in just the same way that vertidrains and earthquakes would close over, but the lower cracks and fissures remain, a well timed pass with a spiker or vertidrain once things dry (which is much quicker) will soon ''reconnect'' to the surface.
These machines can get down to just over 700mm deep, but should be worked shallower if any piped drainage is in place, not wanting to risk deforming runs, just wanting to 'crack' into the trenches to allow water in, the site shown on youtube had 6m centre drainage and hardly a drop was getting in due to a Pan layer caused by regular vertidraining and pitch relaying. Even old agricultural drains predating sport use can start to work to some degree even if it is very limited it all helps.
BUT like I have said, if you have a site with poor soils, no drainage in place and heavy usage then you will still need to install a drainage system to get the best out of it, like Fidgy said, installing the pipework is stage 1, a regular well timed aeration program, sand application and maintenance to establish and keep a strong sward are all part and parcel to this too.
Like I stated above the key to getting the best out of any soil is regular aeration of whatever type but varying the operation and depth is still important as on many of what I would class quite well maintained surfaces we are finding hard tight layers at circa 100-150mm and 200-300mm where the build up of the downward action of tines has created an 'Aeration Pan' just like a plough pan and this will restrict water and air movement. Infact in the worst cases we have found that vertidraining or spiking over this pan is just loosening the soil over the top allowing water in without it able to get away, making what should be relatively free draining soil soft and wet. Quite often below these layers the soil is actually still dry or only just moist.
The added bonus to all this is you allow the soil to breath, let roots develop and the natural soil environment flourish.
Where the machine has its place is:
Removing plough, aeration and construction pans, 'cracking' the soil to create fissures between drainlines to encourage lateral movement of water through the soil.
Opening the soil profile to maximise the soils inherent drainage ability, at this time of year allowing the soil to 'wet' throughout so soil hydraulics begin.
Allowing the soil to breath removing anearobic conditions or helping vertidrains to get relief.
Where you need drainage it might improve things enough for you to get by until drains are installed, where you actually have a compaction problem it may mean you dont need so much if at all.
Let us know where you are and I will give you contact details of the nearest machine
Barry
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
We saw Barry demo the Gwazae at a Golf club near Dorking or Redhill(?)and we were impressed & we seriously considered it as an option to solve an immediate problem. The reason we didn't persue it further was our field was so bad I was worried Barry would sink before he even got to the actual pitch and if he did get that far the wheel ruts may have made the surface even worse.
With regard to the shockwave, Four Oaks point is very valid, as our field is dual use (cricket & football ) we don't earthquake much after Xmas just in case the cracks were to open up, if & when we have a decent summer.
Hi Mr Fidge, I would agree and also add that any form of linear aeration such as the Earthquake/Shockwave/Groundbreaker or Moling has risks post christmas on clay based soils with high shrinkage abilities.
You will also find on any clay based soils like this that when you install drainage a couple of years of topping up to runs or bands will be likely as the downside to drying the damn stuff out is it shrinks back widening the trenches causing the aggregate to sink in slightly, on the worst soils like on a course I worked on in Sussex the cracks from Sand Banding opened up enough to loose a golf buggy wheel down!!!!
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
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