Message Board - Health & Safety: washdown areas
26 Feb 2009 by wicketdevil
Hi guys can anyone point me in the right direction for the legal requirements for providing a washdown area i'm getting mixed messages. Ian
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
26 Feb 2009 by highway
i thought the area had to be a hard standing with a drain that dumps into a sealed tank, the waste should then be sucked out by a waste contrator and taken away, (i belive any way) its to do with contaminats getting into water courses and the ground....dont quote me tho!
26 Feb 2009 by Ben Taylor
Unfortunately, it changes region to region.
I know of a couple of courses who were told that every blade of grass had to be collected and not let into water courses, but I also know of courses that were told that they didn't need to do anything!
Best to get in touch with your local council or the Environment Agency.
Suppliers of EXPRESS DUAL & ANGLEMASTER to world leading golf courses
4 Mar 2009 by wicketdevil
We have spoken to the enviroment agency who say our tractors are not classed as agricultural machinery so we dont need to have a washdown area. It is very confusing we need a clear instruction from the enviroment agency do grounds departments need washdown areas.
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
4 Mar 2009 by jlawrence
how the heck can a tractor not be classed as agricultural. You can't get anything that is more associated with agriculture than a tractor.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
4 Mar 2009 by Barry Pace Last edited 4 Mar 2009
Regardless of what you have been told Wicketd, what it comes down to is the law, you are not allowed to let contaminants from washdown or chemical run off enter storm or open drainage or soak to the ground, and how you deal with it, if you actually bother, will dictate how the EA and courts treat you IF something was to go wrong.
What are you washing off, in terms of numbers of equipment, what is being washed off, could this contain chemical, fuel, lubricant, how often do you wash off. These are all questions that the companies selling washdown/water recycling systems will ask, what is also relevant is the location in terms of where water goes and what can run onto the area from surrounding ground.
They will of course try and scare you with the legislation but as you have found the bodies who implement this do not have clear guidelines for how to ''pidgeon hole'' sport so it comes back to risk, how much do you want to take as ever.
I am sure a good few people will be able to carry on regardless and if they never get visited by anyone or have a spil then they will be absolutely fine. If you had pollution traced to your facility then expect the full weight of the law to be directed at you cos this is what they do.
Please see attached info Links:
http://publications.environment-agency.gov.uk/pdf/PMHO0307BMDX-e-e.pdf
http://www.netregs.gov.uk/netregs/businesses/landscaping/89436.aspx
And if you have a couple of days free check through this lot because they could, in the worst case where relevant, all be used against you in a Court of Law
http://www.netregs.gov.uk/netregs/legislation/current/63614.aspx
http://www.netregs.gov.uk/netregs/legislation/current/63616.aspx
http://www.netregs.gov.uk/netregs/legislation/current/63604.aspx
http://www.netregs.gov.uk/netregs/legislation/current/63608.aspx
Of course if you are North, West or over the Irish Sea then they have whole sections dedicated just for you too...............
http://www.netregs.gov.uk/netregs/legislation/current/default.aspx
Enjoy........
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
4 Mar 2009 by Neil Dixon
I think the point is, tractors would rarely get "washed" down as a matter of course, say in comparison to a Triple mower (no doubt sumo will disagree!!!)
I think a lot depends on the site location, if you are near to a water course then i would reccomend installing a wash down bay as any washings could find their way into the water and if traced back to you will leave you with a hefty fine , but i think generally you need to consider;
Size of organisation
amount of kit
are other cleaning methods available - air lines, brushes etc
location
close proximity to drains / sewers
budget - they are not cheap!
We have one and it serves several of purposes, 1) wash down bay for all our machinery, 2) a bunded containment system for any chemical / fuel spills 3) a storage area for a Chemical safe, so "ticks" quite a few boxes when the H&S brigade come looking.
4 Mar 2009 by Barry Pace
Put much better than me Neil......
What your ''waste'' is dictates how you may need to deal with.
Like Neil says adding the Fueling and Chemical storage and mixing areas to an integrated washdown water treatment/recycling facility is the safest bet, if maintained well this will provide the best ''risk management''.
These types of systems (there are 3 main notable systems out there) use bugs to breakdown the chemical and oil based contaminants within the water allowing its reuse, whilst seperating any solid materials for disposal.
These can cope with fuel and chemical spills (if they are designed and installed correctly as they are ''enclosed' systems.
If you had only light amounts of possible oil and grease/lubrication contamination then a simple Oil seperator may suffice as long as it is again maintained and actually cleaned now and again and sized to be large enough to cope with the load.
There arent any simple 'backside covering' solutions that I know of for very occasional washing ie maybe once every week or 2 or 6. Here the risk is just the same but no way justifiable for a large expenditure........ In fact I reckon theres a market for a cheap simple free standing pad system, big enough for a mower to sit on, small cheap simple filter to remove oils............. or a simple seperator for say tractor sized, drive it on wash it off, collect the cr&p?? ...... hmmm bit of investigation I think
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
4 Mar 2009 by wicketdevil Last edited 4 Mar 2009
Thanks guys we have no ditches or open water near the site and there is a cess pit where we could put the waste water in to be removed by a contractor. We dont wash down the tractors that often but white linning machines and mowers do need it regularly. I dont understand how the tractors can not be agricultural machinery if i did i'd proberly work for the enviroment agency. I have got quotes from waste 2 water and know about course care does anyone know of other companies.
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
4 Mar 2009 by Barry Pace Last edited 4 Mar 2009
Hydroscapes is the third of the trio I mentioned that I know off.
I know people with all 3 systems and they are generally happy with each, it only being a case of them possibly being too small or at their own admission not kept clean enough at some resulting in a too regular need for emptying or pump issues. Others have had problems where not enough thoughts went into the wash bay size or level in relation to surrounding run off.
The key to any system is the management, size and location of the system whichever you choose.
We are looking at the installation of one for one of our customers and quoting for another so are going to provide info on each, followed up by site inspections to allow the clubs to choose which they feel will suit them pratically and financially.
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
4 Mar 2009 by highway
as reading i spotted this add to the side of the post!
http://www.ospreyirrigation.com/
4 Mar 2009 by Sumomosr
@ Neil.
Yes, tractors should be washed regularly and kept clean. While washing you are checking for wear, loose/bent rods and levers, rust etc . Then after washing a going-over with an oil can and grease gun is sensible.
Operators should be encouraged to remove the accumulated detritus from around the seat, operators platform and in toolbox or cab on a daily basis.
Washing them down flushes oil and diesel overspill onto the washpad which creates the bio-hazard.
I favour the 'digester' type of system since washing a mower or tractor, or even an implement, can use an aweful lot of water causing the simple cesspit to be emptied frequently (at a cost).
Get quotes from at least three of the brands mentioned above.
Also check the tyres for trapped stones between the tread blocks if you travel over gravel pathways. These have been known to fall off, under load, onto your surrounds, fairways, or turf and cause damage to mower blades.
GOGGA
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