Message Board - Education & Training: Recent Posts
8 Mar 2009 by Barry Pace
Hi all, 2 recent posts on here from a ''Fringe'' section of our community have made me annoyed, frustrated and I think for the sake of the site, in need of direction.
Now as you know I will freely give advice to anyone, no lets be truthful I can bang on about certain subjects for hours......
and I hope to long continue doing this..if it is of help to someone and wanted..
But I am starting to get frustrated at how certain posts, invariably about someones bloomin lawn, are blatant, 'I dont know what I am doing'' posts or turn into the sort of backchat posts we reserve for premier pitch turf gone wrong comment ROFL....
Now initially the tittle tattle is mildly amusing but it has started to look messy and does the turf industry no favours at all.
I will continue to provide comment where I know it is for any club, ground or pitch volunteer, private or regular postee seeking direction and to the rest if they sound like they are just hawking for information on how to do what we have all spent years sweating to get the experience the answer will be ... employ a turf professional...
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
8 Mar 2009 by Eddy21
Good Point Barry,
After just returning from a short break in the UK and reading some of the recent posts. I have to agree with your above comments.
People purposely winding it up and snapping at one another isnt great for the the genuine users of the site and also the industry as a whole.
I have been a user of the site since it started really and have noticed over the past 18 months or so, that certain big names and more experienced guys have stopped posting altogether.
Its a bit of a shame IMO. Come on guys lets start acting like proffesionals and start treating people the way we would like to be treated ourselves.
Bonne courage
Dave in Paris
Learning is there for every man
8 Mar 2009 by vid
Hi Barry - if everybody ignored the post then they are unlikely to try again - I'm the same as you, well able to bang on about stuff when my cage is rattled but then if the message board is full of tittle tattle and tosh the message board home page stays mostly pink on my lap top!!
8 Mar 2009 by Leeboy
Ban the smalltalk on Cricket batsmen I say!
8 Mar 2009 by Barry Pace
I agree Vid, but it needs that lil air of authority to it too, a clear boundary if you like, a difficult one though, where to draw the line, again I have no problem with someone coming on and asking for who or where to get advice from, or where its a specific unusual problem, its the blatant ''I know nothing but am going to glean it all here and charge my customer for it'' that grates.......... and it was Sunday morning and the list of ''to dos'' from the Mrs was growing lolol.
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
8 Mar 2009 by Ken Barber
Hi all,
Why do we post on forums? Its either, we respond to someones question because we are confident about the subject matter or we want confirmation about a particular subject matter or as you indicate..... we can use it as the easy route to get information on something we haven't a clue about!
At the end of the day, you can Google any question imaginable and get 1000's of results. Or you can go into the Pitchcare library, read or research about anything to do with turfculture or horticulture.
I check this site out several times a day, I probably respond to 1 in 10 posts because the subject doesn't interest me or I do not know enough about the subject matter.
However, isn't this website designed to assist everyone, regardless of position or experience?
.... Freedom of speech and all that!
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
8 Mar 2009 by Barry Pace
In part I agree Ken, but you, I and our fellow postee's have toiled, bled, listened, watched and sweated to learn and earn our experience, now where as I don't mind passing on a different view or a push in the right direction, to a worthy cause, or save someone the ache of hunting something down but I like to get a lil back, when its clear that none is forthcoming, the gates close in I spose its a bit like students coming on here for the easy answer to part of their course work, copy and past to get a pass and a bit of paper to say they are more qualified than me, which isnt difficult I may hassen to add lol..... but you just get fed up with it......
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
8 Mar 2009 by zoid
I would imagine from reading your posts Barry, that you have infinitely more knowledge than can be cheaply obtained in a couple of posts on here.
Let's be honest, you need to know a bit to sort the wheat from the chaff in the responses on these boards. I doubt these quick fixers are gaining all that much?
8 Mar 2009 by Dave
Barry, chaps, I have to agree with Ken.
For years I worked for a sportsground contractor, who didn't educate staff and everybody within the firm did as they were told and put down what they were told. 6 years after I left the company I asked one of the employees what fertiliser he used, he didn't know, he said 'I put down what I'm told when it's delivered.' This guy has been working as a Groundsman for over 15 years!
The 'tell em nowt' culture developed by bosses and supervisors to hold back willing individuals is outdated. In every working situation where education and explanation is freely available, you will see great team work, better end results and lower staff turnover.
This site is about having open information available for all to learn from and improve their turf surfaces, be it in sport or amenity.
And who has the right to judge someone looking to start their own business, coming on here or any other site or library to research and gain the information to do the job right.
Based on the majority of lawn threads I've read on here, everyone has a real problem with green thumb. Surely the more independent guys that learn from here to ply their trade efficiently and professionally the quicker that some cowboy companies disappear. The other scenario is that more quality is produced, the poorer companies pull their socks up to compete and the standards improve and more clients take on a super service -surely a win win outcome.
It's the same for sport, from the professional to the volunteer, the information here helps them all to improve standards. As standards improve others look to find additional finance to raise their own surface standards-it's an upward spiral.
Barry's right, the bickering is boring, but I do stress that we all started somewhere and nobody should be deprived a little help in starting up.
Cheers,
Dave
8 Mar 2009 by Barry Pace Last edited 8 Mar 2009
It was Sunday..... I was being grumpy... blame the mrs.....
I do of course agree really, just will give them a lil grief if they making it look too obvious,..... their customer being sorted is one of the whole ''grass industries'' customers being sorted out....
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
8 Mar 2009 by vid Last edited 8 Mar 2009
Well said Dave, there are periods when I post a lot and others when I dont, but at the end of the day its up to me who I respond to, so sorry Barry I dont quite get it. I wouldnt want people with a genuine thirst for knowledge to be turned away by our own aloofness!!
There are quite a few times where I delve into google to check my own knowledge and sometimes it annoys me that people bypass this by coming straight to the message board where the response should be 'go and google it yourself', but usually someone with more patience than me will answer their question for them and post the reference website - I cant complain about that and even though it can be frustrating I wouldnt want it to be any other way - as soon as any type of censure is applied (other than profanity blatant advertising etc) then you would be restricting the knowledge flow.
BTW nice to see you back Zoid
8 Mar 2009 by Mike
Re the point of using google to find information. This is something that I have done in the past, but in the main, my first port of call is here. The reason for this is that I consider myself as one of the lesser knowledgeable/experienced members here, and I respect a great number of the posters on this site. I cannot recall being given any bad advice from anyone during my time posting here, and it is for this reason that I always use this forum as my first port of call.
8 Mar 2009 by vid
I get your point Mike, but if I want a filter for my old tractor for instance wouldnt it save time on here just to pop it in the google box first after all thats generally not something everyone has to hand but is very easy to find on the web. Of course if you're not having any luck the PC message board is second to none!!
8 Mar 2009 by zoid
Cheers vid. I've missed it.
8 Mar 2009 by Mike Last edited 8 Mar 2009
Vid - simple questions such as where to get a filter, I can manage that type of thing by myself, or atleast I should be able to anyway!
Sometimes the odd post does pop up that makes me think that it was posted out of sheer laziness, and that can be fairly annoying. With that in mind though, what is a difficult task to one comes easily to another. For example, I wouldn't expect an experienced groundsman such as yourself to come on here and ask how to prepare a wicket. On the other hand, we could take someone of my level, who would look to someone like you or bath for example if I had a query regarding wicket prep.
The other advantage of getting 'real time' information from this forum is the associated benefits which most posts initially lead on to. It is very rare you will see a post where someone asks a question, another gives an answer and the topic finishes there. We often see topics unfold into deeper discussions where not only the original poster, but every reader will gain something from the thread.
9 Mar 2009 by Ken Barber
Well put Dave & Mike.
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
9 Mar 2009 by barry glynn
As a new guy on here and to groundsmanship, I really value the advice and input on here greatly. I have my own views on cricket and its controlling authorities 
but I am really gratefull for the professional advice and help that is on here regardiing groundsmanship matters.
Recently, I was struggling to get a simple small rubber grommet for my old roller but it was causing diesel to spill out and stopping me using the roller. I posted my problem on here and Paul Kelsey gave me the number of a firm up north who stuck one in the post, for nothing and I had it in 2 days.
It seems to me that the majority of people on here and groundsman in general are happy to offer advice, regardless of how hard they may have come by the knowledge themselves.
So thanks!
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
9 Mar 2009 by paul kelsey
Barry
Thanks for the Toffee but the term professional aint me, but i do understand what you mean, i think a lot of the time if the inexperienced people like myself need something or want to try and repair something they just need reassurance that it is being done properly more so when voluntary and working to a very limited budget.
With any mechanical problems Sumo is very helpful not always what you want to hear but he always seems to get you there.
There have been a couple of fiery threads recently glad i wasnt on the end of them, but if people dont like a certain post its not obligatory to reply.
Paul
9 Mar 2009 by Barry Pace
As the originator of this post I wanted to confirm that I was having an official GOGGA Sunday (Associate Contractor Member)....but it was all getting a little messy unintentially at the end on one of the mentioned posts wasnt it and just didnt think it was a good reflection on all you good postees out there, to be fair to Jon on one probably bore the brunt when it was the slating that annoyed more.... lifes too short lets face it..
So pls end of discussion and lets get back to informative, thought provocking, helpful, direction and enjoyable banter.......
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
9 Mar 2009 by Mal Last edited 9 Mar 2009
Hi Barry
You've uttered the secret code word (GOGGA) 
as good if not better than a bare left breast and secret handshake. Nothing to forgive and all understood say no more 
Geography is everywhere
9 Mar 2009 by Grassman2011
I would question your comment Mal, but you have not made it very clear whether that bare left breast belongs to the male or the female. It could of course be the secret code of a dark and mysterious organisation.
Could you please make your post clearer then i can very easily determin whether GOGGA is better or not.
At the moment i am very unsure and cannot make up my mind.
9 Mar 2009 by paul kelsey
Barry P
Sorry i wasnt singling you out i was more refering to the debate re Lawny Mrc/council.
No offence your right put it to bed.
Paul
9 Mar 2009 by jlawrence
Gordon, I'm sure you'd fit in quite well - we could do with raising the average age of membership 
.
Seriously though. I came on this site (not many years ago) knowing next to nothing. Almost everything I know (which admittedly isn't much) about looking after my cricket squares is down to my own willingness to research information but also (more probably more importantly) down to the willingness of people on here to answer what must seem to many to have been very very basic questions. Without the willingness of many people to answer those basic questions I don't know where I'd be.
The lawncare industry is a little different to the sports surface maintenance industry. As with many teritorial industries there is an understandable reluctance to offer advice to your opposition. But if you want to be seen as a professional then offer that advice you must. You will gain the respect of your peers (if nothing else) and that can lead to many more contracts than you would lose.
Think of it this way; How many groundsmen do you think get asked, month after month, could you help me with my lawn. All it takes is for them to turn round and say no, but I know a good person who can.
Many companies (big and small) are feeling the strain at the moment what with credit lines getting cut etc. So some people probably need to take a deep beathe before actually answering some posts.
It ain't rocket science. If you don't want to give advice then don't post.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
9 Mar 2009 by Mal
It would have to be a male left breast Bath, as a female left breast would no doubt lift your spirits too far thus pushing your membership of GOGGA beyond your reach.
Geography is everywhere
9 Mar 2009 by jlawrence Last edited 9 Mar 2009
Mal. There's nothing wrong with the female breast.
After all, as a GOGGA member you know full well that it wouldn't be on your surface :).
Spirits are allowed to be high at this time of night - well at least the glass should reach your mouth :~).
For us cricket guys this is the best time of year (IMHO). We get to start serious work on the surface without those damn annoying players getting in the way - what more could we want
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
9 Mar 2009 by Grassman2011
You try stopping me reaching. I always have set my sites high, nothings ever out of reach. I'll keep stretching. I'll get my hand on it eventually !!
10 Mar 2009 by Sumomosr
Glad to see that the GOGGA brotherhood have risen to the occasion.
I can certainly see where m'learned friend (and counsel for the prosecution) Brother Pace is coming from with his initial posting.
Likewise I have the utmost empathy for aspiring young GOGG, Nephew Leeboy, with yet another of his astute observations and still we see the blatent hijacking on the forum of otherwise interesting threads by the bally grim roadshow.
Brother Mal and Brother JL have, as ever, hit neighbourimg nails firmly on their heads (nails heads that is) and so Bath, as the generally accepted 'Father of the House' your application for GOGGism is noted but, for now, you stand firmly in line behind NigelS in the 'Too Nice' queue.
I must declare that none of this is for my commercial gain but merchandise is being produced by Brother PP and Sister Tait in secret at Saltman Towers, otherwise known as PCHQ.
Carry on...
GOGGA
10 Mar 2009 by Jon Harvey
Quote: 1 day ago by vid Last edited 1 day ago
Well said Dave, there are periods when I post a lot and others when I dont, but at the end of the day its up to me who I respond to, so sorry Barry I dont quite get it. I wouldnt want people with a genuine thirst for knowledge to be turned away by our own aloofness!!
There are quite a few times where I delve into google to check my own knowledge and sometimes it annoys me that people bypass this by coming straight to the message board where the response should be 'go and google it yourself', but usually someone with more patience than me will answer their question for them and post the reference website - I cant complain about that and even though it can be frustrating I wouldnt want it to be any other way - as soon as any type of censure is applied (other than profanity blatant advertising etc) then you would be restricting the knowledge flow. End Quote.
I think it was me asking for some reassurance that I wasn't way off track re a lawn that started this whole pathetic debate. Needless to say, as quoted above, my genuine thirst for knowledge has been met with the two-fingered salute on this website. Of all the forums I either learn from or contribute to, this is by far the most unfriendly one I have ever come across. Note this - you have successfully alienated me and possibly others; I won't return.
10 Mar 2009 by Vic Demain
That's a shame Jon, I for one am sorry you have been treated this way.
10 Mar 2009 by Barry Pace
I have pmed Jon, apologising for starting this and for making him feel alienated, although in truth he has had some positive replies to his posts and nothing has been directed at a personal level to him but also stating that it was more about the degeneration of the replies to his and another post that sparked this............. In no way were any of us, in my opinion, sticking 2 fingers up at anyone...... where did that come from??
All I will end this on is if you require ''reassurance'' then please word your post accordingly..... the accumulated fountain of knowledge needs stimulation and a degree of respect to flow....
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
10 Mar 2009 by vid
I hope that my post that has been quoted Jon isnt the cause of your disquiet. I was just speaking my mind - I respond mostly because the subject interests me and I feel I can give a positive and helpful response. It is of course tempered with the amount of time I have to post - so in the middle of winter I will respond to a lot more than in spring through to autumn and then I am much more likely to give full answers to a basic question (its raining at the moment so I have a few minutes). I think Jon you are being a little unfair on us - I know on this occasion Barry has thrown his teddies out of the pram and I think he is probably regretting it now, I have several times done the same and been forced to back down to save any credibility I may have gained. However a site like this works both ways, we all have our frustrations and what better way to express them than with your fellow like minded professionals. If you were a regular reader of the posts here you would appreciate just how much the likes of Barry, Sumo, Jon L, Jon T, Bath et al (And of course Dave!!) contribute and how often they repeat themselves for the sake of newcomers. If they have misread your intent then please forgive them as they are only human not machines
10 Mar 2009 by zoid
Of all the forums I either learn from or contribute to, this is by far the most unfriendly one I have ever come across.
You should do like me and occasionally go on Manchester United forums to wind the prawns up, then you'll find this environment a welcoming breeze!
There's too much good stuff on here not to get involved. If you're not prepared for some straight talking alongside the genuine help then that's your choice but it would be a poor one.
Everyone gets good responses to specific questions but to basically say, as you did on the mossy lawn thread, "I don't know what I'm doing for a customer who I'm charging for my services. Give me a complete education in lawn care" is perhaps pushing the goodwill which abounds on Pitchcare a bit too far?
Anyway, I hope you don't leave. The more the merrier imo!
10 Mar 2009 by dave384
As regards to the arguing on said post i hearby appologise to all for getting carried away , just sometimes something sparks a passionate reply , for those who know me i am not at all like that normally ask chucky..or even the messiah dave lol
i am not someone who just comes on here to cause trouble i havee been a member for a long time and will remail one ....... hopefully i will keep calmer in future
please to jon dont leave because of a grumpy bloke like me ........
10 Mar 2009 by higgins
This is a friendly message board in general, with good unbiased exchange of information. Sure sometimes people get the hump, better to stay in it , and continue to learn, than to stop posting. No more bare breasts,secret handshakes or the freemasons might ....................
10 Mar 2009 by panch
Zoid mate i thought you said you were a changed man
11 Mar 2009 by zoid
Honest guv I am!
Tell me I'm not and I'll smash yer head in!
btw
'int Torres brilliant?
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