Message Board - Cricket: Doctoring pitches?
22 Mar 2009 by Mike Last edited 22 Mar 2009
After reading the article on the mainpage about doctoring pitches, it got me thinking about two things.
How much pitch doctoring does go on? Is it something that only goes on at the higher levels in the sport, or is this commonplace in lower league cricket aswell?
Also, as I have never been party to any pitch doctoring of any sort, can I ask how, or what techniques are used to adjust the playing properties of a pitch to suit your particular teams strengths?
Mike
22 Mar 2009 by MAVO
I'm sure it goes on at higher level cricket where they have the players to take full advantage of it.
At club level,unless you have decent spinner where you can take the grass off and get it dry as possible so it "spits"and turns or a green seamer to suit the quicker bowlers then there aint much else we could do?
Playing around my area for 20 years,most pitches seem to be the latter,whether thats delibrate to suit the seamers i'm not sure?
I've known of a team that left its covers off and got game called off so they could get average points,when everyone else played!
22 Mar 2009 by Vic Demain
Mike,
Any team in any sport at any level wants to win. All will use their skills to achieve this end. In cricket, if it is fast bowling, spin bowling or fantastic batsmen, the team bosses will want pitches that suit their particular skills. The groundstaff are employees of those bosses therefore if they want to keep their jobs, they do as instructed. If a volunteer groundsman at any level is a bowler, why wouldn't he produce a pitch to help his skills?
How? Use and timing of water. Leave grass on or shave it off. Leave grass short of a length and shave it off at spinner's length. Rough surface up. Apply loam to pitch etc etc.
Personally I believe Stuart is doing a bloody good job and has for years. He is prepared to be open about a subject that others have kept quiet about.
Sure you will get some very interesting replies.
22 Mar 2009 by Tumbleweed
I was asked to rake the ends by a batsman, I don't play cricket so i never knew why.
I find mostly they want you to bring in the boundry to suit their batsman.
these batsman are sneaky !
Every blade of grass has it's angel that bends over it and whispers "Grow, grow"
22 Mar 2009 by Philmort
Mavo,
How many clubs in the West country can produce dust bowls in the 'average' season? Green tinged pitches will be more prevalent on most grounds without full time groundsmen to manipulate covers.
Proud to serve grassroots cricket
22 Mar 2009 by MAVO Last edited 22 Mar 2009
I'm not full time but still manage it,you may be right in some cases about manipulating covers as they don't have a groundsman as such.If thats the case the captain should organise players to do it!!Surely its in the players interests to get pitch covered?If they want to play that is!
22 Mar 2009 by Mike
Personally I believe Stuart is doing a bloody good job and has for years. He is prepared to be open about a subject that others have kept quiet about.
This point is what got me interested. To me, pitch doctoring seems to be something that does happen, certainly at the higher level, and while everyone knows it goes on, few are actually prepared to talk about it openly, and unless people start to do so, many of the groundsmen in the lower leagues will remain in the dark about such practices.
I certainly respect the article's author (Stuart?) for writing openly about it. I even found myself questioning if I should ask this question on an open forum incase it was frowned upon!
The question of how we do it obviously relates to pitch prep, and with all of the recent attention on the Cranfield report for rolling, and even the ecb's documents (TS4?) which advise on how a wicket should be prepared, it kind of leaves me thinking "ok, follow these instuctions to produce a 'standard' wicket", although changes must be made according to the individual site, which is great for a novice groundsman. I then thought "what if our captain comes to us and asks us to produce a spinners wicket". I have never been in a position where I have had to answer such a question, or have had to adjust our prep to meet a request. We follow a 'standard' prep procedure for all of our wickets, which are known locally as 'batsmen's' wickets.
The point which Vic makes about the will to win, and in some cases, the 'do anything to win' mentality is clearly present at the higher levels in cricket, and i'm sure the more skilled volunteers doctor their wickets to a certain extent, and I dare say that it is coming to a point where I feel that it will be in schoolboy cricket in the very near future, such is the value of winning nowadays. I have even played for a snooker team in the past, where we had six tables at our club, and each league match consisted of a six man team. Once the draw had taken place, we would allocate the tables best suited to each players strengths, or the opponents weaknesses, in the hope of gaining an advantage!
Whether pitch doctoring is fair or not, is an issue for others in the sport to deal with, as you say Vic, many groundmsen are just doing as they are told. From my own point of view, it is very relevant to us groundsmen, and it is something that I would like to see more research on, as the knowledge of how to doctor a pitch directly relates to the skill set of a groundsman.
22 Mar 2009 by Philmort
It's sometimes a question of getting covers off and on during the working day, which still afflicts some players even in this economic climate! Pitches will remain green if under covers all day to avoid the 'heavy showers' forecast if no-one is there to move them, if left off they get wet. Of course, if we get a repeat of 2006, then dry pitches should not be a problem.
Proud to serve grassroots cricket
22 Mar 2009 by zoid
It's not doctoring that worries me, it's institutionalising the 'standard wicket' Mike A refers to and the training of umpires to assess wickets and grade them high if they allow no seam movement or spin.
"Sorry Mr Groundsman, your overseas leggy managed to turn it an inch. You can't have top marks".
Think I'm exaggerating? Check out the ECB's recommendations for umpire assessment.
23 Mar 2009 by barry glynn
Firstly, in club cricket anyway, doctoring a pitch only favours the bowler and both sides have to bat on it, not just the away side. A home side could in theory get more used to batting on a dodgy pitch but its unlikely. The only obvious doctoring of pitches ive seem in many years of league cricket where it was obvious there was an area of the square that had been watered ,mainly where the match days strip was. The worst case I saw and experienced this, the home side happened to have a first class quickie and he did indeed bowl us out for next to nothing, bowling first.
Cricket withhout umpires is anarchy but it seems nowadays, a lot of them have never really played the game and to ask them to mark pitches as well is too much for them.
Ive also seen ends that had been manually scuffed up on a slow bowlers length, and yes, their overseas was a spinner!
But I dont think it happens purposely very often
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
23 Mar 2009 by Grassman2011
I think the term doctoring is inapropriate. I prefer the idea of various ways of preparation.
As Vic says, wetter or drier, grass on or off. There are manipulative ways of changing the performance of a surface by adding loose loam or sand, more grass off here, less there, but preparation geared towards the home side i believe is fine.
In the rec. game most will be happy to get something reasonably dry, firm and flat with average grass. If the club then has trouble with its wickets it will usually be attributable to problems below the surface and these perhaps should be addressed.
Zoid,
I happen to think PQS is a good tool to act as a guide as to how cricket squares should be idealy constructed and maintained How pitches are then prepared is down to the home club. I do totally agree with you when it comes to the umpires marking of pitches. Evenness of pace and bounce is everything to me, after that the ball should be allowed to seam and or turn. If sideways movement is to be a no no, then we might as well have bowling machines at one end and do away with the human element altogether.
One that always beats me is, how did the pitch play ? ok but the ball swung around a lot. How much does pitch prep have to do with swing ?
Good consistent pace and bounce yes, and remember this can change with different bowlers, the rest, just bring it on.
23 Mar 2009 by Vic Demain
Mike,
Most club groundsmen produce the best wicket they can for the given game. This is the way it should be. But then their job is rarely on the line. Of the 18 first-class clubs in this Country, I believe I am correct in saying all but 1 employ the groundstaff. Each of those clubs want to maximise their chances of winning the league or, now getting promotion to div 1 and the finances that brings. Like Bath, I believe that could be viewed as utilising their groundsmans skill to assist their aim.
Sorry Mike don't like the quote "do anything to win" and hope it wasn't used by me.
These are practitioners at the top end of their profession, who are using their skills wisely. More research leads to more reports and lesser skilled people working outside their understanding. Is this moving the game forward?
Zoid, as one who has gained from the umpires marks system, I am naturally going to support it. These are the only independent guys, with a good view and most are former top players. All captains/players have an interest so not reliable.
Pitches are marked on bounce, consistency of bounce, seam movement and amount of turn.
In our first championship game last season our pitch gave medium bounce each day, consistent bounce each day, little or no seam movement throughout (but consistent swing), little or no spin for three days and moderate spin on the last day. without this fourth day spin, we would have been marked down.
23 Mar 2009 by jlawrence
I don't doctor the actual playing surface - they get what they get.
I will sometimes discuss with the skipper what size of boundary to use. If a team is used to playing on a small ground then we'll often push the boundary to the max just to give them something they're not used to - likewise if we know the team is going to be full of 'older' players so they can get fitter by running around in a bigger area.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
23 Mar 2009 by Neil Dixon
Should / do we have a responsibility to ensure that pitches are as consistent for both sides as possible?? Would this remove the "what if" from the game, and just rely on the skill of the players to out play each other?
I prepare my pitches bearing the following in mind, weather, time of year, do they need to be used again, and standard of play, so, early season the pitches tend to have more grass on them so they can recover quick for re use later in the season, , during the summer more grass is removed and cut shorter as they are less likely to be needed again.
I suppose some would call this doctoring, but in my mind doctoring a pitch is when you actually prepare a surface in a particular manner and to 1 teams strengths, the rest could be perceived as just pitch preparation techniques.
23 Mar 2009 by Dave
Hi Neil,
If the Games master said to you that the boys had an important cup game coming up and the strength in the side was batting, would you prepare your surface any differently to help the boys gain an advantage?
23 Mar 2009 by zoid
Bath
If all ECB representatives were as sensible as you, I wouldn't have much to post about!
Unfortunately they're not.
;-)
Ascott
I have no problem with umpire assessments. I really can't see any other way? What I object to is the ECB training which is going to teach less knowledgeable umpires at club level to rate pitches which are dull featherbeds as the highest achievable standard?
This might be more appropriate for a four day game where wear will alter the conditions as time passes. It may be correct for Neil to emphasise flat safe pitches for school children (though this is spurious as seam movement and spin don't constitute dangerous conditions) but it is totally inappropriate to the one day game at club level.
Dave,
Couldn't agree more. We work for our clubs not the ECB. If they ask us to use our skills to assist their needs, so be it. So long as the pitches aren't dangerous as Bath says; bring it on!.
23 Mar 2009 by Neil Dixon
Hi Dave, I dont think i would to be honest, but if my job was to rely on it who knows.........
23 Mar 2009 by Dave
Hi Neil,
I think that we're all trying to achieve good playing surfaces, if not great ones!
At the end of the day, we all succumb to our employers wishes from time to time.
I can't speak so much for cricket, but from a football angle the pitch can look great, but still be doctored to be faster or slower, by simply changing cutting heights or the amount of water applied.
Hope you've been making the most of this recent weather!
Cheers,
Dave
23 Mar 2009 by Vic Demain
Zoid,
Thanks for clearing that up, it seems we agree that the County game is different to the club game and that the pitch requirements are also different. Should club pitches need marking? Would agree that club umpires shouldn't have to do it.
Dave,
Has it ever been suggested that all football league groundstaff should be employed by the governing body rather than the clubs?
If this were to happen it may reduce the practise of providing suitable surfaces for the home team?
Regards
Vic.
23 Mar 2009 by Mike Last edited 23 Mar 2009
Oh well, looks like I started a good one here...
My apologies Vic, the term "do anything to win" was simply an observation on my part of sports in general nowdays, you certainly didn't suggest this. Take Stuart's reference to when Wimbledon used to play Man utd, or look at the 'multiball' system that a lot of football clubs now. Imo, in cricket, football, snooker or whatever sport, the club are utilising their resources to give an advantage to their team, if it has been requested. Personally, I have no problem with it whatsoever, as the other teams usually have an opportunity to 'return the favour' in the return fixture.
Where I do have a problem, from a groundsmans perspective is related to what Dave and Neil mention above, for example:
If the Games master said to you that the boys had an important cup game coming up and the strength in the side was batting, would you prepare your surface any differently to help the boys gain an advantage?
This comment is something that I haven't come across yet in my role, although I do feel that it will become commonplace in the near future. I know of pupils that go to certain schools purely for the cricket, rugby or whatever their chosen sport, and these schools reputations are often based on this and their history of producing excellent sportsmen and women. As someone who works in a school, I know first hand what pressures some teachers are under to get results, and I would fully understand if a teacher came to me and asked us to prepare a track that would favour their team. Whether we would actually do it or not wouldn't be my decision, and even if it was, I am unsure whether I would agree to it or not.
From my point of view, the problem relating to this particular instance is that, we have established that this type of practice is commonplace in top tier sports, may go on in recreational sports, and doesn't really go on at school level, yet. So, if we look at all of the information out their on how to prepare a wicket, from the ecb's documents, cranfield reports etc we are being shown a way to produce a 'standard' pitch as zoid alluded to earlier. Don't get me wrong, I think these documents are great, and I have relied on them heavily at times, but if all of the information out there is pointing us groundsmen in the direction of creating a 'standard wicket' what happens when the time comes that we are asked to prepare something a little bit different? We can effectively end up with a skills shortage of sorts. If we take some of the county venues where this is commonplace, all of the groundstaff (I assume) would be instructed on how to doctor a pitch as part of the match prep. Drop down a tier to the rec game, and some of the lucky clubs have very knowledgeable volunteers such as Jon L and Jon T, who would know how to adjust a pitch, or another lucky club might have a retired ex professional groundsman who has had experience of adjusting pitches in his previous role, and then we have school groundsmen, who have never been exposed to pitch doctoring as it is something that is rarely requested at schoolboy level, and there is little by the way of documemtation to educate them, which leaves us with quite a large skills gap within groundsmanship.
It is clear that 'pitch doctoring' or whatever we want to call it plays a big part in cricket at the top levels, and it is slowly filtering down through each level of cricket, so I feel that it should be aknowledged in groundsmanship as a vital part of a groundsmans skill set, and as such, material should be made available to all of us who might be asked to use it in our role in the future. We have lots of material out there on construction, materials, maintenence practices, rolling etc, but I see very little material out there on how to adjust the playing properties of a pitch, or perhaps i'm just not looking hard enough 
23 Mar 2009 by zoid
Ascott
Re:
"Should club pitches need marking"
Too right they should and something done about the clubs who do blatently cheat.
I'm not talking about 'differential pitch preparation' but clubs who in our premier league, spend nothing on maintenance, resulting in their pitches disintegrating and then employ 90mph overseas rapidos to exploit them.
And bath, I can see some sort of benchmarking being appropriate in those cases. It's just a pity our pitch advisers reckon it'll take them three years to complete a 28 club programme of PQS's by which time the early assessments will be out of date.
23 Mar 2009 by barry glynn
Zoid
I had my PQS inspection done end of August last year. I recieved the official report 2 weeks ago. And I wasnt the only one.
If you have clubs not preparing proper pitches and therfore playing on poor dangerous pitches, if they are as bad as you say, how do they get any batsmen to play for them.
No decent batter I know would want to play on such a minefield every other week. presumably other sides in the league have overseaa quickies?
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
23 Mar 2009 by zoid
Hi Barry,
Do you need decent batters when the innings scores rarely get near 100? There's a way of playing on bad pitches and that's to be ultra aggressive.
Good batters try to play correctly and fail! The sloggers love it when everyone is brought down to their level.
Re. PQS
Was it worth the wait?
23 Mar 2009 by barry glynn
My point is that sides only play half their games at home. If I was to prepare (or not as the case may be)pitches like that at my club ( apart from the fact I wouldnt do it) we would have no decent batters playing for us and I wouldnt blame them.
If a club playing in premier league cricket is producing pitches like that, the umpires should report them and either the club does something about it, or they should be thrown out of the league.
PQS
I am fairly new to the job but I do think it is a good idea but the organisation / timing of the reports was abysmal.
Also the inspector couldnt tell if I was to have a follow up this season. Whats the point in that?
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
24 Mar 2009 by jontaylor
I will always try to produce a good pitch. I don't always succeed, but I try.....
I'm not above preparing a good pitch that suits our team more than it suits the opposition, but at our level I don't find it that easy - the difference in standard of batters and bowlers is not that great. We don't often get overseas pros in Div 3. We do get one oppo with a tearaway quick (by our standard), but I always try for a fast track against him - he gets over-excited and drops it short all the time, not often straight - fetch that fella.....
What we have started to see over recent seasons is that having a good home strip often helps the opposition! Our players are used to playing on it week in, week out but the oppo often play above themselves simply because they're on a good track for once. When we go away, our players sometimes underperform through expecting scorpions in the pitch
I'm not sure about the comments that a pitch shouldn't take spin from the first ball. Why on earth not? If you can make the ball fizz, you'll get turn on my tracks from ball 1.
Mind you, I've not read the guidelines so I don't know the rules!
The ciderman rolls
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