We all know about what has happened at Wembley , but I believe Steve and his team have done a great job at our national stadium . good luck for the future Steve .
A great job! Oh yes fantastic, the pitch among other wembley issues has been a complete disaster.
Time will tell whether Steve is in fact a scapegoat or culpable as shown. Let's hope whoever comes in can sort it out and make it the showcase that it should be.
Groundsman sacked
another case of the groundsman being held responsible for a poorly designed stadium which goes totally against the requirements for a good playing surface.Good luck steve for future fella
Best wishes to the Super Mario brothers in whatever they do next.
It just seems a cheap shot by the spin doctors to get rid of Steve.
Steve is a very dedicated groundsman who works very hard, maybe it is a magician Wembley want, not a groundsman, I hope Fergie and Wenger are enjoying their brekkie today knowing that they have cost a good groundsman his job.
Whoever takes the job on, "All the Best"
Visited Wembley in 1968 or '69, it was terrible then - but it couldn't stop the magical Don Rogers - because they held the Horse of the Year show on the pitch a few weeks before the League Cup Final.
Surely a stadium that hosted only football would provide a more suitable surface for showcase events.
Shame the groundsman has lost his job and the commercial staff will continue to make life difficult for whoever is in place.
On what grounds might Steve have been dismissed? I could be wrong, but i was of the opinion that if a man struggled it was up to the employer to train him as they had employed him.
He may of course accepted a very good pay off and who would blame if he had ?
He may have course spoken out of turn, been late for work to often, abused his staff etc.
He may have been on a fixed term contract that has come to an end.
Will we ever know ?
Untill we do, and i hope we find out, we will all be guessing.
26 Apr 2009 by taffy
I feel sorry for steve being held accountable for the state of the pitch. What a sad state of affairs that the managers of a national stadium do not have the faith in there groundsman. Just by getting rid of steve doesnt mean the pitch is going to be any better, the problem still remains that too many events are being held at the stadium to pay for it!!! i think any groundsman would struggle to produce a world class pitch with such a tight schedule of events. Just by re-turfing the pitch they think the problem will go away?? the pitch will have no time to bed in and could still be bumpy and prone to kick out. If they knew the stadium was going to be multi-use then why did they not choose a removable pitch. They had acres of space to use a roll in/out pitch at the stadium this would of solved all there problems by being able to take the pitch out to grow and have other events. I think the next groundsman to take this on will be a brave man and good luck to them!!
26 Apr 2009 by EHU Mission Control
I can not understand the reasoning/ timing of this dismsal, there is such a short period of time between the pitch being relaid and these showcase matches, it does not make it a safe sure solution, should they have listened to Steve more and taken on board his need/requirement to solve these issues. but it seems that Steve dismisal is the easy option to those in their ivory tower's failings.
I would like to see the industry support Steve in his reinstatement, some of you may disagree with that, even if he takes the powers to be, for unfair dismisal, because we have yet to see the official statement for is removal?
Not gross misconduct
Not harressment
etc
lt would be interesting see the Wembley/FA employment ploicies and procedures on dismisal ... thats if they have one
I have always found Steve a fair and honourable man, his knowledge and experience is of the highest standard, he support the industry with vigour and shares his wealth of expertise with others without question for which I have called upon a great number of occasions.
Steve is not the problem ..... it is those behind closed doors who should be held to account........ wrong stadium design, wrong pitch specification etc, the list goes on
Those in power have now set a president, if the pitch is bad and we lose sack the groundsman/manager...... problem solved........I don't think so?
I wonder if the groundsman of the teams relegated will be given their P45's after the last game of the season. Just a thought.
Good luck Steve and your next position show them how wrong they have been
The future is bright, the future is EHU !
26 Apr 2009 by zoid
I would like to see the industry support Steve in his reinstatement, some of you may disagree with that, even if he takes the powers to be, for unfair dismisal, because we have yet to see the official statement for is removal?
Well I don't disagree. It stinks of scapegoating.
I would love to know whether Steve thinks it was all worth it now.
His dismissal is in my opinion not a reflection on his ability as a Groundsman which was already established before, and was the reason why he got the job. It is all to do with PR, and the powers that be needing to do something to show they "care" regardless of whether what they are doing is right or not.
Steve's pride will be hurt and I imagine he will be terribly frustrated at not being given the chance to see the job through.
If I were him I would also feel an intense feeling of relief that it's all over now and he can read the back pages without worrying any more.
Now is the opportunity for those who "know" better to update their CV.
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
I picked up on the fact that the FA got Steve and his team to go out to, was it Baden Baden to supervise the England training grounds in 2006.
A UEFA official was reduced to tears when he saw how high the quality of the pitches was.
I would imagine that the powers that be have made Steve a very good financial offer to 'keep his trap shut' (confidentialality agreement) otherwise there would be a very strong case for unfair dismissal.
In the past few years a number of high class groundsman have left high profile jobs for a better quality of life, don't forget where the buck stops guys, nowadays there are even more Cheif Execs, Spin Doctors etc trying to cover their backside.
As my wife said yesterday, "How will Wembley be any better with a new groundsman?"
Dont know much about this but I suspect this guy took the job after the pitch had already been put down. Is that so? If so, the people who made the decision should take the blame. If not, then maybe he is to blame. But I suspect he may be being made something of a scapegoat, thats normal in a big organisation.
Has it been relaid since he had the job? I dont follow football these days
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
I think the whole affair is summed up by the article linked to on the Home Page, "Money talks - that's the Wembley way"
It's written in rather emotive language (as journalists do) but essentlally, to my mind, correct
From the posh end of the room!!
It's like the Millenium Stadium all over again. We don't have a National Football Stadium in this country any more, we have a huge compromise of a stadium. Once again those who made the decisions on the choice of stadium spec are ,i'm sure, still in positions of power, whilst some other sod takes the can. I saw some of the game at the Emirates Stadium at the weekend, it goes to show that you can build a modern football stadium that will allow grass to grow in it. Why did the F.A have to compromise with Wembley? Money i hear you cry, but i wonder how many England players would like to play the next home game on a surface like the Arsenal players enjoy each week?
The new stadium is a lost opportunity to build on a reputation known the world over, one that is now being quickly forgotten.
Good luck to Steve in his next position and also to who ever is brave enough to follow him, unfortunately i think they'll need it.
As I said, dont follow football anymore but as I understand it, steve was an award winning groundsman producing top surfaces. So I bet he has been stitched up to some degree by the suits.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Does anyone actually know the facts? Listening to some of you bleating on about suits making decisions and the groundsman carrying the can for others failure-you belittle yourselves and your trade. Stop sounding like a bunch of flat capped whingers.
Steve Welch took that job knowing that it would make him or break him, that was the gamble of having 'the best job in the world'. I hope that the 35k a year that Wembley originally advertised the position for was worth this public fall from grace Steve?
One of the papers today stated that Steve Braddock was being lined up for the job, so if that's true, then are we to see a second highly regarded and respected groundsman become a fall guy???
Stop complaining about the events and the stadium construction and think about solutions to improve the pitch. Be proactive not provocative and other people (suits) may take us seriously.
A harsh opinion Tony, but in some respects also very true.
I am sure whoever initially was to get the job at Wembley knew the scope of events they planned to hold at the stadium, nobody held a gun to anybodys head and forced anybody to take the job on.
Steve obviousley felt he could meet the challenges of the job in the first instance, wether he feels he has succeded or failed in those challenges only he will truly know, likewise, whoever replaces Steve Welch will be fully aware of the issues surounding the stadium and pitch so will not be going into the job with there eyes closed, or under any illusions that football is the priority.
I am not saying the way he has been treated is right or fair to him, it isnt, i also think that we should have a designated national stadium without the pressure of non sport events, but we dont and are unlikey to in the near future, so shouldnt whoever takes the job on be prepared to take responsibilty for the surface ( good, bad or indifferent) knowing full well how the stadium is used, regardless of the usage??
27 Apr 2009 by shaka
While I am not going to talk about steve! we all seem to have a idea on who is best for "The Job" me for one! I dont really know anymore!!! I think the next head man has to have worked in a similar envrioment stadia with concerts, rugby, american football and the others I havent listed. so I cant really think who that person will be! if you could pick the person! who would it be an ex wembley man or ex man u? or some one who has moved country for experince?
who do you think is the correct choice??
What about the gentleman who had the forsite and desire to get this site up and running ?
28 Apr 2009 by zoid
Hayes
You used the phrase: "culpable as shown."
How has Steve Welsh's culpabiltiy been "shown"?
You ask; "Do you know the facts?" and the answer has to be no.
But you think you do know the facts because Steve's "culpability" has been shown?
How has it been shown? What are your facts Mr. Hayes?
28 Apr 2009 by NSF Last edited 28 Apr 2009
Gentlemen,
Charles Sale in the Daily Mail is quoting something that Steve Welch said at an IOG seminar some 2 years ago. It is written in such a way as to be a direct response to his unfortunate dismissal when clearly it is not.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1174128/Charles-Sale-Wembley-pitch-fault--Welch.html
Clever journalism or misquoting? You decide.
Clearly though, as the STRI and Hewitts are now cited in this affair, it is a damaging news thread to our industry and one that we should unite against rather than bicker on, what is after all, a free and public website. You may even find yourself quoted in the 'red tops' as was the Chelsea groundsman in the Evra affair off of his Facebook entries.
Members of this website have expressed their concerns over the state of the Wembley pitch on numerous occasions and, in my opinion, quite rightly so. It is, after all, our 'flagship stadium and we will all, like it or not, be tarred with the same brush.... regardless of how fantastic the Emirates, Villa, White Hart Lane et al are.
One final point. Mr Zoid, you claim that Mr Hayes quoted 'culpable as shown' as a fact. My reading of this is as an alternative to be being a 'scapegoat' and not a statement of fact.
I can't wait to see if the job is advertised in the next issue of the Groundsman and how much the salary will be if it is.
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
I dont know Steve or his budget or freedom to manage or the quality/spec of the original pitch to comment on any of these.... but it just goes to show what a difficult environment stadia are to manage if the basics of light and air are not addressed especially when you throw in the multi use... the Emirates got it right for the football but appears to have far less outside influences such as tarmac being laid over or weeks of concerts.
Good luck to whoever is brave enough to fight the tide of use......
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
Should we be surprised by this chain of events? This is football we're talking about. Why should we think the groundsman will be treated any different to the manager? Both have the same employer don't they?
When the team playing on the pitch loses again and again the manager gets the boot.......no matter how good a manager they were at their last club or even last season, no matter how little support the board has given them to build a strong squad.
Football is a results business and those at the very top know that they stand or fall not on how good they really are, but on how good the public, media and board of managment THINK they are.
The ciderman rolls
Why does nobody ever seem to mention Roy Rigby Head Groundsman at Manchester City when it comes to looking after a top stadium that is used for concerts etc. Roy as had to deal with 2to3 concerts a year along with his groundstaff at the end of a season, holding crowds as big as 60000 people. The concerts have been held there every year since it was opened and the stadium as never been re-turfed and he as never had the biggest of budgets to work with either. I just feel people only think about ur arsenals and ur man utds there are other good groundsman out there.
Thing is Wembley needs re-turfing due to events being held in the winter! Other Top Stadia in the UK have there events May/June/July
There are lots of top groundsmen out there...but how many will want to take on something like Wembley?
Todays Daily Mail states that Steve, The IOG and Wembley are meeting today to discuss the severance deal for Steve, alledgedly the first offer made to him was derisory.
Steve needs to be looked after because without doubt this fiasco has set his career back somewhat, but don't expect him to be able to 'Go Public' with the details.
A little birdie told me last night that the Wembley ground staff have had their ground passes confiscated until after Premier Pitches finish the re-turf, which should be about today.
I'd do it for £100,000 plus accomodation.
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
Back in December when 2 Australian Rugby players sustained horrendous injuries due to the state of the pitch, did this alert the management team at Wembley Stadium to think there may be a serious problem that needs rectifying. Obviously “no” it was only Rugby players, not important enough. Now that the “Far Superior “ overpaid footballers are finding the surface not to their liking, (don’t recall any serious injuries sustained in any of the recent football games, or is pride a serious injury that may distroy someones career) with the ranting and raving of the Managers, the management have finally taken heed, so what do they do, get rid of the person (sorry scapegoat) who was probably trying to do his best and produce a pitch that looked good for the cameras. If the main man doesn’t get the support from the top what can they expect.
Still,I asked the question back then, with all your experience of producing some of the best playing surfaces probably seen by any player or spectator currently involved in any sport, why cant we have a fantastic National Stadium fit for purpose. All the groundsmen in the Premier Leagues of both Rugby & Football manage it (fit for purpose) every week of the year, yes at times during the year some pitches look a bit worse for wear, but they are in constant use, and they are not “The National Stadium”.
Get together collectively and find a solution, other wise turn Wembley into an Events stadium and play all the prestigious games around the country at some of the great venues which we see every week on the TV and never hear any complaints about the playing surface.
The top groundmen in this country should be proud of what they achieve and feel very sorry for Steve for what he has to work with. (sorry “had”)
You're not a "suit" by any chance are you Tony?
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Phil, as was probably pointed out at the time you asked the question. No one knows exactly why we can't have a fantastic national stadium, because no one (outside Wembley) knows exactly what the problems are - that's assuming that someone there actually knows.
Get together collectively - WHY ? Are Wembley going to pay for a collective to come in and solve their problems - not bloody way are they.
I think most of the top groundsmen probably do feel sorry for Steve, but no one knows (unless they're not saying) exactly what control he has or hasn't got over the surface. I can't imagine that Wembley is any different to any other venue in so far as if the groundsman doesn't have control over what happens to the surface (maintenance wise) then he can't be expected to have control of, or be to blame for, the standard of that surface.
A little birdie told me last night that the Wembley ground staff have had their ground passes confiscated until after Premier Pitches finish the re-turf, which should be about today.
If that is the case then who is overseeing the re-turf and are those people going to be responsible for what happens afterwards - sounds like putting the groundstaff in an untenable position to me.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
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