i discovered a way around getting the machinery i wanted, despite an obstinate bursar......
no matter how i put my case for machinery needed, the bursar flatly refused..( money men!!).
many budgets have an allowance for new purchases, and also one for servicing/repairs...
if you have a goood relationship with your supplier/ mechanic .. do a deal.!!
i arranged for a non existent repair to be carried out, ( to a machine we have). thus.. offsetting the cost of a new machine , much needed.
as the money paid was going to the same company, they were happy to help, and technically this isnt illegal, tho a little underhand.
the servicing/repair budget is larger than the purchases one, ( madness really).
the company i use has since told me they have used this technique with several others, in the same situation.
please no moral judgements............
its a case of needs must, and no personal gain is involved, and the grounds only benefit.
Sorry but I don't see how you can expect to not be judged morally when you seem so proud of decieving your employers?
Whether it is right or wrong it is the decision they have made to not buy the machine - live with it.
You say its a case of needs must and no personal gain is involved but how can you expect your employers to believe anything you say if they find out what you are doing?
If I tried this in my job I'd be down the road before my feet can touch the ground.
11 Jul 2009 by Dave the Greenkeeper
I have also done similar wysiwyg just to get what you wnt, my employers always run the machinery into the ground before even considerung new second hand machinery, (never new!) we often spend several thousand keeping old rubbish going.
You can't do your best with poor equipment. Needs must as you say the grounds benefit.
11 Jul 2009 by Mike Last edited 11 Jul 2009
wysiwyg - be careful using this type of tactic, and broadcasting it might not be the wisest practice either. i'm not judging you as its not my place, but i'd ask you to consider my input before you decide to use such a practice again.
The most important part of any employer - employee relationship is trust. I'd suggest that if your employer finds out about this, you will find one of your implied contractual terms, the one of mutual trust and confidence will have been breached by you - a breach of this term could well find you out of a job.
Also bear in mind that there might be a prospective employer who uses this site, and as you could be putting your current position in jeopardy, you might just need that prospective employer to give you a job.
I can sympathise with you. Six years ago, when I started with my current employer, our machinery was very poor. our newest machine was twelve years old, and we were cutting our outfield with a Ransomes 40, which I believe was made in the early sixties. Today, we have some of the best machinery on the market - we aim for one capital investment per year, and small machinery is now on a 3/5 year replacement plan. All I can say is that this was made possible by gaining my employers trust. My employer respects my input, and they have enough trust in my opinion to back me with significant investment in machiney. Although the investment has been significant, our annual repair budget has been dramatically reduced, the quality of our work has improved, and staff productivity has been increased so much that we now operate with less staff, and this makes for quite a remarkable net saving in the department as a whole.
You can only gain this type of trust by being honest with your employer. Yes, it is frustrating being in your position, but two wrongs don't make a right. Work with your employer, not against them as there will only be one loser in the long run, and you could find your reputation tarnished beyond repair.
Qucik Question:- What happens when your employer see's the machine that they said you couldn't have?
Sorry Mike but sometimes the trust and respect runs out, you can only bang your head against the same unresponsive brick wall so often.
My guess is that this guy has been so frustrated by poor management that he has resorted to taking matters into his own hands.
Biggest mistake, coming on here to talk about it, but hey most of us have felt that upset in the past. It is because he has passion and is being held back.
11 Jul 2009 by Mike Last edited 11 Jul 2009
Yes Vic - sometimes situations can get the better of you, and after many years of 'flogging a dead horse', you sometimes feel that you have to do something that you wouldn't normally do.
By taking matters into your own hands and undertaking such practices as above, albeit out of sheer frustration and a will to do the best you can, it is possible to overstep the mark. I'm not condoning the poor management which seems to have taken place, far from it. I also sympathise with the position wysiwyg finds himself in - I know from experience what can happen when situations like this escalte, but my advice is to not do something that can put your job, and career at risk - there are other alternatives. Granted, the alternatives might not be ideal, but when compared with what might happen if the employer finds out about this, those alternatives might warrant serious consideration. When situations like this do get to a point where such drastic action is deemed necessary, it can have not only professional effects on you, but also personal.
Edit: I'd just like to add some input for wysiwyg. Your employer has duties which they must abide by. Are you familiar with the PUWR regulations? If not, google it and you will be able to download a copy for free. A couple of regs which might be relevent to your situation are:
Reg 4 (b) - Ensure equipment is suitable and is used only for the purpose which it is provided and designed.
Reg 5 - Ensure that equipment is properly maintained.
Reg 6 - Ensure that work equipment is regularly inspected where it is liable to deteriorate and become dangerous.
Reg 7 - Restrict the use of equipment where there is specific risk to specified and trained persons.
These are just a few of the regs that you can use to aid you in your quest for better machinery. You can use these regs as justification for new machinery without putting your position in jeopardy. If your employer fails to meet the criteria set out by these regs, they are failing in their duties as an employer, and it is then your employer that is in breach of the terms and conditions of the contract of employment, and more importantly, the law, should you need it will be on your side.
11 Jul 2009 by Ken Barber Last edited 11 Jul 2009
I have to agree with Andy and Mike on this one.... You are placed in a position of trust and if you break that trust, it is a downward slide from there on!
Mike has explained clearly that giving sufficient evidence and information can improve the condition of the said playing surface, simply by what there is to gain by taking his course of action...... Burying your head in the sand and going down the road of deception is bad for both you as the person placed in a position of trust and the supplier!
I couldn't and wouldn't deceive my employer, simply because if I couldn't persuade fellow managers to take my direction of improvement, it was because I did not sell myself correctly or I had got it wrong!
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
What sort of repair did they invoice for that was substantial enough to create an offset against a new machine. I guess we're talking about hand-held or small machinery here?
Am also curious,like Andy, how you keep new machine hidden from view in both storage and in use?
GOGGA
This situation does underline how poorly our profession is viewed by an unfortunate No. of people.
Hell, all they do is cut grass, how hard is that?
Don't talk to me about Contractors Wonka, I am one myself......
I would recommend reading the article in the latest Pitchcare Magazine, "The true cost of MACHINERY OWNERSHIP"
From the posh end of the room!!
looking from the outside at your situation, you have used money allocated to a capital fund and spent it on a revenue item. without authority this is called gross misconduct in most organisations.
You did this with the full knowledge of a machinery supplier, who offered advice that it was o.k. to do so, it was not.
If it is picked up by an audit trail , and investigated, they will be looking for anything else that might have been purchsed by this method. This could include car repairs/servicing on staff vehicles.
If you thought you were good at hiding this problem, they might think you are even better at hiding things than you are.
There should also be an asset register for insurance purposes.
Have you looked at leasing options?? a set figure every year and all your machinery needs catered for?
Trust, the moment that is lost so is your credibility.........
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
I've found when asking to purchase new machinery if you can sell the health and safety side of a new machine you have a much better chance of getting the nod. I.e. we had some new banks to mow i said the only safe and econmic option was to buy a ferris 48" and i got the permission. WD
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
New Machinery purchases form the basis of a " positive purchase policy" , which should be part of your H & S policy document, as Wicketdevil says above, regarding H & S - buying new machinery to show that the organsiation does invest in new, safer , more compliant machinery, rather than repairing older, out of date machines.
quite a response.......!!
though i see many couldnt resist the moral judgement.!
i should have mentioned new, meant replacement, not brand new.
i take all comments on board, however when you are told there is no money for grounds, and then you see them spending £2600 on having there own wine label designed,
£18000 on new garage, ( but too small to get the bus in!!)
£1000 on flowers!!!!!!!
i have great relationship with c.e.o. it is simply the bursar is an ass, doubling as site manager, and has no idea of duties involved.
i didnt take the decision lightly, but viewed the two budgets as one.
i offered this story, for other groundsmen, who have very similar problems, it is not a question of being proud of it.
and to be honest, the bursar wouldnt recognise one mower from another... nor a fork from a spade!
please no more moral assessments.
Hi wysiwyg, I hope your join our school groundsman group when we launch it at this years saltex. Its things like your problem we need to discus and try to put our views across. It can be very difficult to point management in the right direction but by trying to trick people is a dangerous route although i'm sure we have all felt tempted. Prehaps the company you deal with could tell the bursur the cost of repairs over the next few years and that may help his decision process. Good luck. WD
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
Lots of talk about respect, morals and credibility.
Let me please add my case.
4 years ago when starting my current position, I signed a contract agreeing terms and payment, nothing odd there. Last year we were awarded a county cricket festival lasting 13 days and this season it will be 10 days. Doing some quick sums, I believe that 3 members of staff are now required to work an extra 40 hrs during the festival, never mentioned on original contract when we had just a couple of 1 day matches.
Politely I sat down with our line manager this morning and pointed this out and asked in which other industry - apart perhaps from agricultural workers and public service - would this happen for no extra pay? Everyone else is paid by the hour, so gains.
Result being, it may be discussed but nothing will change.
Respect, morals, credibility?
Please don't ask me to come to Saltex and talk as I won't be able to spare the time, our festival starts on the 9th September.
15 Jul 2009 by Mike Last edited 15 Jul 2009
Respect, morals and credibility is a two way thing in employment, and it is all to common, and from what I have seen, particularly in this industry, the employers rarely adhere to their side of the bargain - this is very unfortunate.
Vic - your guys should be paid for the extra work, of this there is no doubt. If your employers fail to pay for this extra work, and this type of situation hasn't been allowed for in the contract of employment and the 'written statement of employment particulars' , then the employees do not have to undertake the work. There are some possible loopholes such as salaried work, and flexibility clauses, but there is also strict leglslation covering these aspects. As a rule of thumb, if your employer wishes to make any changes to your work, for example, working time, then this must be a collective agreement between both the employee and employer. The employer must also give notice in writing of any changes to the written statement of employment particulars.
In Feb of this year we had a restructure of the dutuies within our department. One part of this change was that between the HG and I, we would share weekend cricket duties. The agreement was that the HG would cover Saturdays, and I would cover the Sundays. The only problem was that 'funds are not available to cover overtime on Sundays'. I was offered time off in lieu of Sunday work. Now, my contract of employment makes no specific mention of Sunday work, although it states that overtime will be paid for any work undertaken outside of my normal working week.
My view was that if they wanted me to work Sundays, they had to pay me, and my contract supports this. I stuck by my guns, and basically, if my employer insisted on me working for no extra renumeration, all Sunday cricket would be cancelled. Once faced with the loss on income from Sunday cricket, and possible loss of school fixtures, extra funds were found within the wage budget, and I now get paid for any weekend work that I undertake.
There is a moral to this, and that is that we all have, or should have a contract of employment. Within that contract are express and implied terms, and it is incumbent not only on us as employees, but also the employer to adhere to these terms. Nobody can be forced to undertake work outside of these terms without prior agreement. Moreover, if the employer is found to be in breach of any of the express or implied contractual terms, they can land themselves in very hot water. The contract of employment is the strongest bargaining tool that we, as employees have at our disposal. The downside is that we only have this tool at our disposal if we abide by it's terms. Provided we abide by the contract, we are protected from issues such as being asked to work for no extra pay, and we are also protected from being asked to work with machinery that isn't up to the job. I would advise anyone and everyone to be familair with their contract of employment, and also their rights at work. If given the chance, many employers will walk all over there employees, and they will only do this because they are confident that many employees will not be fully aware of their rights, and perhaps more importantly, be fully prepared to use those right should the need arise.
Personally, after what was a very diffcult time in my career, I decided to read up on what my rights were, because I was not prepared to have any employer walk all over me again. If I didn't stick to those rights, I would have found myself working every Sunday since Easter with no pay, and the only thing that gave me the confidence to stand up for my rights was the fact that I abide by my contract of employment to the letter. I should also add that if things do get to a stage where 'respectful negotiation' is no longer working, and you feel strongly enough to stick to your guns, be it by refusing to undertake extra work, or undertaking work with machinery that doesn't comply with legislation, you cannot 'suffer a detriment' for sticking to the terms of your contract.
Very well explained and written my dear Mike. If sports turf management doesn't work out for you, you could easily succeed in law.... Another Dr. Mac in the making me thinks?
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
15 Jul 2009 by Mike
I've got an awful long way to get to the good doctors level, but one must aim high to achieve anything in this life!
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