I`ve got some pretty bad red thread on my pitch at the moment. I have applied a dose of 12-6-6 about a week ago but it still seems to be as strong and it looks a bloody mess to be honest.
I`ve got my first friendly on sat then got Man City a week on tuesday, cant have Tevez looking at my red thread going WTF is this??
I know that the weather isnt really helping at the moment, warm humid, heavy rain showers ect...
I was under the impression that red thread was a sign of low nitrogen and a hit of fert normally shifts it.
Anyone got any suggestions please?
Try spraying your pitch with an iron solution, will darken the grass and mask the red thread to a degree
MightyJimbob? stop it "dead" with an added speedy recovery using Calcium Chloride (Ca/Ci2) It works. Good luck on this. Ian Mac
Ian,
What product would you reccomend containing calcium chloride, how should it be applied and at what concentration?
Phil Fish
Now" Philip, that would depend on the purity and grade you buy? Different companies have variations to this organic, brine derivative and therefore application. However, it is a very low application with miraculous result. (check out organic fertilizer suppliers) Regards, Ian Mac. (or as stated before, simply spray milk!)
Ian
I have trawled the net, finding numerous references to Calcium Chloride (ice melting, swimming pools etc) but cannot find a propriortary product which might be suitable for spraying on my red thread. Do you have any reccomendations?
I am intrigued about your comment on using milk. I have searched the message boards but cannot find the thread. Can you expand?
Phil
Hi Philip, Calcium Chloride is used to much "purpose" including organic calcium fertilizer. Many companies sell it as a flake at around 80% calcium. This disolves readily to a liquid and 500grams would treat your court when diluted with 40L of water. "MILK" an old method of supplying Calcium to grass, we used it a lot in the sixties when this disease had another name. The milk tip was posted on the IGA site allowing many Greenkeepers to benefit from this aid.(or so they tell me?) Try www.mistral.ie where you might get some flake? Regards, Ian Mac.
Ian
CaCl flakes ordered and just about to raid the fridge. I will let you know how I get on. I am happy to give a non-fungicide treatment of red thread a go (plus it looks cheaper!).
Regards
Phil
Philip/Ian.
I'd like to try this as well. Red Thread is rife here at the moment.
Philip could you post the link for the flakes please.
ps. Does it work on Red Fred as well?
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
Peter
You can find the flakes at the following link
http://www.mistral.ie/details.php?code=CALFL
See you at the IOG Tennis course in September.
Phil
Thanks Phil. See you then.
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
Philip,Peter, it's great to have an open mind! that way, we miss nothing? I wish both of you much anticipated success with your Calcium. As both of you are in attendance at Saltex drop in and give me a visit that we may further our experiences of alternative turf grass prescription's and consequently" it's prognosis! I will be on Stand F25 and will be delighted to meet up with you. Oh" Peter, bring Mark and Craig also. Ian Mac.
24 Jul 2009 by Kip
Might be a bit late on this but I have had great success with Scorpio where there is a bad case of red thread.
Regarding lack of nitrogen; I think things must have changed because it does seem to stack up as far as creating the problem.
Hoep that helps - if the red thread persists, it will be Adebeyer moaning, not Tevez (I am an Arsenal fan!)
A number of dairies have been successfully prosecuted by the Environment Agency when as little as a few tens of litres of milk have polluted streams following spillage of as few as one churn in delivery yards. Whilst milk is a source of calcium it also has a very high biological oxygen demand and so if spilt into a watercourse can lead to fish kill stretching several hundred metres downstream as the oxygen is drawn from the water as the microbes chomp the protiens.
The relevance to turf is that milk will also have a high oxygen demand in your turf - which might have adverse effects if you apply too much at one go over a large area.
The ciderman rolls
Kip, your absolutely right! too much N is even worst than too little. But at least with too little the calcium will assimilate this element to it's best advantage.
Jontaylor, you are too literal in your approach as a practitioner? No one has made declaration to copious amounts of applied milk and we are talking 2L to a hundred metres square. My Grand Doughter spill's more whilst eating her Sugar Puffs ? she is hardly guilty of intervention to the morphological depletion of oxygen to the Earths organisims.
Jontaylor, if at Saltex? please drop in to Stand F25 as I would love an opportunity of a wee chat with you. So, go on indulge an old Greenkeeper by giving me a visit. Regards,Ian Mac.
Hi Ian,
How long does the benefit of milk application last in the soil or grass plant in combating this disease do you know?
Which sport surface have you seen it succeed most?
Hi Donals, a good pertinent question without a definitive answer? However, Milk is a miraculous liquid of life itself(after all did we not depend on it at the start of our lives) Milk is full of protein,vitamins.carbohydrates,magnesium,potassium,and our old friend" Amino Acids. This balanced composition of natural goodness has immediate effect on both the plant and the soil it grows in. It is a natural foliar fungal spray,it is a food source for microbes,it stimulates the metabolism pathway's,it feeds the plant with balanced nutrition! and the balance is one of the important aspects of a recovery of Red Thread. And let's not forget the very important Calcium content as this is so important in restoring the integrity of the leaf blade. So Donals" all in all, Milk has a big part to play in both plant and soil health. To conclude your question? many a bowling green has been salvaged by a pinta. Good luck Donals. Regards, Ian Mac.
24 Jul 2009 by Poa7
Tea, sugar and now milk, sod it (not literally)
I'm gonna feed my lawn some porridge this winter as we all know that porridge helps you grow and keeps you warm. Just gotta get the consistency right and it may even prove to be a superb top dressing too ;-)
"Hell" Poa, just might be worth a trial? (OPEN MIND)Regards, Ian Mac
24 Jul 2009 by Poa7
lol
how many litres of milk would i need to spray a football pitch? This would be a small fortune surely? I have red thread coming out my ears.
Grass Man, a herd! but seriously Grass Man your option would be to use Calcium Chloride at ten L a hectare. Do a search for a supplier near your pitch. Good luck with it. Ian Mac.
Thanks for that Ian. I like your thoughts and ideas, i am all for it.
Just wondering where it has been a success in comparison to other fungicides and how it stacks up against it
Full cream or semi skimmed ?
Had a lot of great results with C Chloride on our bowling greens of recent but we have also added epsom salts in with it to shift corticium. We then follow with an organic compound. My partner has put it down to humidity.
mad4mud
26 Jul 2009 by Mark Jones Last edited 26 Jul 2009
On the Mistral website it says 25kg Calcium C Flakes are about 50 quid. will these desolve in water easily in a knacksack sprayer? How many kg would be sufficent in a 20 litre sprayer. I may give it a go. however my next fertiliser application is due so i may see how it responds to that first?
Hi Grass Man, if you further your search you will get it in liquid form. Moving on! if you are going for the flake you will certainly not need 25kg. If it comes in 10kg bags then that would be a better option. Start with 250g diluted in a bucket before adding to you 20litre sprayer. You can use it as a pre-fix before your next feed as this will maximise the results;(but) remember and add a compound as the key to the demise of the red thread is through a balanced approach? Good luck with whatever intervention on "your" behalf secures the health of your sward. Regards,Ian Mac
26 Jul 2009 by Mike Last edited 26 Jul 2009
Doctor Mac - just to add a question into the milk debate. Have you ever considered using raw milk? The milk that we all buy is pasteurized. I believe the regulations for the purchase of raw milk are very strict up in Scotland.
Although the benefits of pasteurized milk are numerous, with the milk containing numerous macro and micronutrients as you pointed out above, the pasteurization process, especially in uht milk, kills off a great percentage off the bacteria present. Through reading many of your posts, I have had my eyes opened to the fact that soil biology is equally, if not of greater importance than soil chemistry.
As such an advocate of the soil food web, and bacteria and fungi in general, i'd be interested to hear your thoughts on adding what is technically a 'sterile' product to the soil as opposed to the addition of a 'natural' product?
Hi Mike, no never tried using raw? milk" nor do I know the regulations of its usage in Scotland (is it different to the rest of theUK?) However, you are correct in your recognition to my advocacy of soil Re-Hab. You purport to my application of what is technically a sterile product? Surely we can't be talking of Pasteurized Milk? Milk sterile? "never" and not even UHT. However during pasteurization some bacteria is destroyed! (but) mainly pathogens,(Listeria, Salmonella) leaving lots of good beneficial. The nutrient decrease is too small to record" well! apart from vitamin C with an increased loss of Folate in UHT "but" who has mentioned UHT? Mike, to confirm my response place a carton of pasteurized milk in a greenhouse for a week remove the top, now! I'm sure your repulsion of it's contents would nullify your description of a sterile product. No one has suggested using milk as an additive to soil on a regular basis but you know what? it can get you out of the burden of a fungal attack of Red Thread. Best Regards,Ian Mac.
26 Jul 2009 by Mike
I believe that up in Scotland, the sale of raw milk is illegal. Throughout the rest of the uk, a farmer can sell it 'on the doorstep' but they cannot distribute it as far as i'm aware.
Whilst the aim of pasteurization is to reduce the number of pathogens contained in milk, as you noted, I recall reading somewhere that during UHT pasteurization, 100% of the microorganisms are killed. During HTST pasteurization, I think it is something along the lines of 95% of the microorganisms are killed off.
I would rather not try your greenhouse experiment, but I do see your point. I believe that the putrification is caused by the killing off of the lactic acid during pasteurization.
As an open minded individual, perhaps I should perform a small test to confirm the benefits of differing type's of milk on a small red thread infested area?
Mike
Mike, a good articulate response exhibited in your usual professional manner. But less we lose direction of the original intended use of milk, and let's be clear here! (all) methods of pasteurisation retain the main ingredient that controls Red Thread! (CALCIUM) experiment with much purpose. Ian.
26 Jul 2009 by Mike Last edited 26 Jul 2009
One thing we are not short of at our site is red thread unfortunately! We don't do anything as it is considered 'acceptable' in relation to the standards the we are set.
For what it would cost, an extra pint off the milkman tomorrow morning would be a worthwhile investment on my part, add that to the raw milk that I have in my fridge (yes, I have it with my cornflakes!!) and I have a trial which might just reap results that can sort out our seemingly endless red thread problem!
As always, with best regards.
Evening mr mac, hope your well, now you have joined us on the dark side (the commercial force is very strong in this one obi)....
am looking forward to catching up with you at Semtex will be interesting to see how you are finding life and want to extract and strain your calcium knowledge.... but more along lines of Flocculation and for soil injection.....
Look forward to meeting if you have time
Barry
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
Explosive stuff this !!
Morning Mr Pace, Dark side? "never" shadow's are always caused by standing in our own Sunshine? As for having the time? "always" and I look forward to meeting you Sir. Your subject matter has much bearing on past research and I am sure we may both benefit from each other before "dispersion"?
(hell! I now become as cryptic as you Barry) See you in September. Regards, Ian.
Ian,
What do you mean when you say "add a compond"? Are you refering to adding some fertilzer to the CaCl mix or do you mean somthing else?
Phil
Hi Philip. I refer to a balanced fertilizer N.P.K. before or after your Calcium Chloride. It's not compulsory and only if it's scheduled. However! the Chloride will maximise the effects of the elements. Regards, Ian.
Ian,
I'm sorry if you find me too litteral, but I find many of your posts very rich on words but short on practical detail.
You suggested Philipfish could apply 500g of calcium chloride to his tennis court. This equates to about 180g of calcium over 250sqm - or 0.72g/sqm.
You said milk would be an alternative without giving quantities and then after my post said you only meant a couple of litres per 100sqm. But milk contains about 1.4g Ca/l, so you now advocate an application of 0.028g/sqm.
The inconsistency in your advice should be clear for all to see!
To achive the same calcium application with milk as you had recommended with calcium chloride would require Philip to apply about 130 litres of milk to his tennis court.
I hope that with these new numbers in mind you can see why I suggested that the oxygen demand of such quantities of milk should at least be considered.
The ciderman rolls
This really seems to be a HOT topic at the moment.
My RT is still rife even though my pitch has greened up now.
I`ve just been out and purchased 2 pints of organic, full fat milk and a water sprayer.
Ive sprayed several of my RT patches with the milk as a trial and marked them and taken photos, so i supose only time will tell.
If it works, it will be a nice easy cheap option to sort out my problems.
Cheers guys
Hi again jontaylor, I must admit your maths are spot on and I will admit to having "never" researched the calcium content of this curative substance and I thank you for sharing this with me. Mitigate? well" maybe "not" (but) I tell you what jontaylor it has been many decades since I last used it on corticium and in my recollection the amount I suggested to Philip equated to the pints that we used to apply with positive results. Who knows? the combination of the other elements and acids, not to mention it's natural foliar fungal properties may well be the catalyst to it's healing properties?or am I clutching at straws? On the maths" you are right, and I salute your pertinence. On the practical aspect, go and give it a go! and who knows, you may salute my prescription to cure. I look forward to a visit from you at Saltex (if attending) Regards,Ian Mac
what would happern if Red thread had no intervention. I mean yes it would look **** and may kill alot of the grass leafs. But surely it will disapear when the soil temperature comes down and all the grass leafs will grow back? I suppose higher level sports intervention is essential but for your normall village team surly their pitch would recover if left?
Sorry Ian, can't do Slatex. I only do grass as a volunteer and taking more holidays to attend a trade show would not go down well. I've already taken 4 of my 25 days to get the ground ready for junior fixtures and only do half of the family holiday.
I think a trade show might be the last straw!
The ciderman rolls
grass man, you are quite correct that the red thread would disapear once temperatures drop.
As red thread infestation is an indication of low nitrogen levels the grass sward that isnt affected by red thread would possibly soon be , resulting in a weaker grass plant, which wouldnt be as tolerant to drought, wear, disease, not look as good and possibly encourage weed infestation.
28 Jul 2009 by Poa7 Last edited 28 Jul 2009
Exactly right Mr Dixon and this leads us to a possible conclusion that the correct management of the grass plant through the year will save us time, effort, energy, worry and money by preventing these diseases in the first place.
Remember that once you see physical signs of the disease that this is the symptom (the last) stage of the disease cycle, the damage has already been done to a large extent! It has infected and colonised the plant a fair few weeks or even months ago!
Learn from the disease, understand it's cycle and the conditions that lead to it's development and prevent it the next time environmental conditions are good for it's growth.
I would say, simply drink the milk and eat the porridge yourself, you will need the energy for the trials and tribulations of the coming winter months...
Looks like someone else has inadvertently discovered the benefits of calcium with the recent post on calcium that has just been posted.
Hi People,
Just managed to source an extremely cost effective Calcium solution - which may be of interest:
http://www.pitchcare.com/shop/iron-turf-hardners-and-micro-nutrients/cabor-concentrate.html
If you have any questions feel free to give me a ring.
Kindest Regards,
Dan Hughes
Bugger!! My calcium chloride flakes have just arrived.
Can someone remind of the application rates again to save me trawling through this very long (red) thread. Pretty please.
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
Hi Peter,
My CaCL flakes arrived today as well. From an earlier post Ian suggested the following "Calcium Chloride is used to much "purpose" including organic calcium fertilizer. Many companies sell it as a flake at around 80% calcium. This disolves readily to a liquid and 500grams would treat your court when diluted with 40L of water".
Unless I hear otherwise thats what I shall use.
Ian also suggested using a "balanced fertilizer N.P.K. before or after your Calcium Chloride. It's not compulsory and only if it's scheduled. However! the Chloride will maximise the effects of the elements". I intend to leave the fertilizer out to see if the CaCl works on its own.
Phil
If one uses a good quality organic fertiliser, then surely it will contain a wide variety of components? That would include, I would imagine, hoof and horn,; blood and bone; and maybe some fish meal. All these will be high in Calcium?
Well what do I know, just a thought!
You have a valid point Paul as getting shot of chemical dependancy can only be the way forward.We tend to use more of plant extracts rather than animal in our organic programme.
mad4mud
Hoof and horn, blood and bone - risk of anthrax and bse.
Fish meal - risk of mercury.
All of these risks are small, but big enough for serious investigation at Government level around the world.
Be aware that "natural" products are inherently variable and often report results of very old analyses of only a few historic batches - if they report any analysis at all (the new "spring water" bottles in our office report an analysis from 2000!). How do you know the mercury content of your sack of fish meal?
Natural products are made of "chemicals" too. Just because it's man made doesn't make it safer - nor less safe - than a natural extract. The biggest chemical killers in our world are of natural origin - ethanol, cigarette smoke and inhaled minerals such as coal dust and asbestos to name just four.
The ciderman rolls
Hi, yet again jontaylor. Whilst I agree with the above post in relation to the properties of the Organic Fert's mentioned I disagree, and would caution the fact that even a small risk would likely not be relevant? "Process" would nullify any apparent risk to the practitioner. As for the mercury? such is the low content the seas have brimmed with life for "ENDLESSEONS" and it has been part and parcel of life since its beginnings, being fully incorporated into the metabolism of all organisms. Organic is best! in what form? you decide. Regards to you Sir. Ian Mac
Back to Top - Go to Next Unread Message
This Message is closed, you may not post a reply at this time
