When attempting to go onto the iga website, I am redirected to the pitchcare website!
Does this mean it has folded?
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
Hi ken
Not to sure , i tried last night and got redirected .
I remember reading something that hinted it had gone by the way side.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
2 Oct 2009 by Pitchcare Alastair Last edited 2 Oct 2009
The IGA "no longer exists."
Website and IT support
Sadly Ken" Mr Battrick is right. However, history will echo that our Dreams will prove to have as much influence as others Actions. (We "Dared" so we will always "Exist") Ian Mac.
The entity may be history ian mac but the philosophy still exists- more power to your elbow guys!
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
Thanks for you words loammeister. If anything else we caused waves which upted the game plan making the greenkeeper safer and better treated this is fact and can be proven, Whats next???????????????????????
mad4mud
Hi,
Maybe I just missed it or maybe it's just ignorance but I knew very little of the IGA. You guys have made it sound interesting though with all this talk of waves and daring.
Perhaps someone would like to write it a commemorative obituary outlining its achievements? Just a thought.
Cheers.
Chalky, obituary! hell no. Contrary to bereaved we are joyous to have celebrated our level of success in "regard" to "positive regard". We were to secure many distressed through Law, Mediation, and general support. We were to offer education to (All) at no cost to any. We made a difference, and thats what we were all about. Perhaps someone should outline its achievements? Any takers? Ian Mac.
4 Oct 2009 by SOS
Hi Guys
1. Free education for all
2. Law/Mediation/support as the norm
3. Open debate to all
Plus many more, Chalky I think you have missed it's achievements.
4 Oct 2009 by Eddy21
Hi Ian et al,
Can I ask what the reasons were for the IGA not continuing as an association?
From reading the above postings and regularly browsing your previous site it sounds a shame that your association is not continuing.
I'd say many new long lasting friendships/ contacts have been formed amongst the the members who were involved with the IGA, this I feel is a huge positive for the industry as a whole, along with the other good things that this association brought to the table.
Every credit and all the best
DE
Learning is there for every man
caus they took on the bullies with the blasers,me thinks
I don't believe we took on anyone.
mad4mud
4 Oct 2009 by Ken Barber Last edited 4 Oct 2009
I think there were some hidden agenda's by some of the people who set the site up in the first place!
Its funny how most of those same people are now jointly running their own business? And that a lot of the posts of interest were started by those same individuals and eventually led to them talking about products and services that they were promoting and selling!
On one hand I say good luck to them.... on the other..... I think they were a little devious! Too harsh a word maybe, but there are several people who have said to me and drawn the same conclusion.
I am sorry I find myself having to make this statement but I have felt a little used by people on the iga site and needed to get it off my chest!
OOPS!
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
In case there is any misunderstanding and just to clear this up my last post was not a barbed comment but a genuine expression of interest in the history of the IGA. I am relatively new to this industry and if the IGA passed me by it was only because I had not understood it's significance at the time. Like others on here say I think it sounds like it was a good organisation and clearly remains an inspiration.
Hi Ken, it's a shame you interpret the initiation of The IGA as a ploy by its founders. Nothing can be further from the truth but you are entitled to your reasoning although" ill - founded. Regards, Ian Mac
I used to watch and listen with interest on the posts and comments, as one does when golf pays the bills ....
It was a site of great intention, had some very interesting, in depth and intelligent topics and discussions on the board for Greenkeepers and appeared to be in the 'getting off the ground' stage. Wasnt as friendly a place as here for an 'outsider' especially a non greenkeeper to feel' comfortable' but then again it wa sa site for Greenkeepers.
Must admit certain posts 'topics' did appear a lil planned at times and I am afraid I turned off the favourite when the posts all got a little predictable especially when the banging on the Union drum got a bit too deafening, it was at times just a lil morose or depressing IMHO.... we all got problems people not just greenkeepers...
Still say it is a pity that it has gone, know that any collective voice that is positive and educational is a voice that will be missed.
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
4 Oct 2009 by SOS
Hi Ken
Was there or was there not some good debates on their website including;
compost tees
Topdressing
education etc etc
The majority of posters came from ordinary guys who just wanted to improve our lot and more, not just those who wanted personal gain?
Hi guys as one of the founder members of the IGA it was set up to help greenkeepers and groundsmen, we did take a different route from others and one that ratteld a few cages but if we helped to rasie the bar and got things to improve for our fellow turf practitioners thats fine by me.
Apathy, credit crunch, some under hand tactics by others all made it hard to establish the IGA.
We have helped many over the past two years in times of need and Ian Macmillan has to take credit for that.
Most of us are in bed with the GMB and helping others in there time of need.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank every one at pitchcare for there help support with our old web site and wish you all well for the future
4 Oct 2009 by Dave Last edited 4 Oct 2009
Thank you Duncan, we were happy to help the IGA get their message across.
Pitchcare investigated the trade union route about seven years ago but decided that it wasn't really what most people require. After all it's an insurance and if I'm honest a rather expensive one at that.
These days there is a huge safety net for people against unscrupulous employers, many lawyers offer a free consultation so you are able to find out your legal rights.
Pitchcare are very happy to work and promote the law service provided by Ian Mac, although at some point even these services will have to be paid for. Ian has provided some superb advice to people that I know to help them through their difficult times. It is free and Ian spends a good deal of time voluntarily.
I do have some ideas on extending this service to make it more available to Groundsmen and Greenkeepers.
Starting a new Association took much conviction and all those involved should take great pride in what they have achieved, the world won't be changed in a few years, but with everyone pulling in the same direction, change will be inevitable.
Cheers,
Dave
Many thanks Dave for the support you gave to the IGA, and I am sorry that it has not continued. I would also like to answer a couple of questions and comments that have arisen.
The IGA discontinued due to the lack of greenkeepers willing to step up to the mark and get involved. As one of the people referred to by Ken, I was always aware that owning a business and also being involved in a voluntary organisation may appear to be a conflict of interests, but I was hoping that my previous employment as a Golf Course Manager and turf lecturer would help people to see my true intentions. We gave the opportunity many times for greenkeepers to come forward and take the reins, but none did. After weeks of notice just four people came to our stand at Saltex to talk about the future of the IGA, and these were from one golf course. If practicing greenkeepers were not willing to run an association then I didn't see why I should continue to take the personal hammering I was taking, and obviously still am, for giving my time and money to a cause close to my heart - the just treatment and continuing development of greenkeepers into leaders and professional practitioners.
OK, I did sail close to the wind regarding my business, but what do people expect from conviction and passion? Ken, it was yourself who led the way with the use of composts and organic methods of turf management. Many people became fascinated by this alternative method - alternative to the chemical led turf management practices of today. It was a great example of how debate can lead to education and research. Perhaps you would be willing to let us know how you got on during this difficult year, both agronomically and also economically, ie did it improve your greens, could you continue all year using organic only methods, and how much did it cost compared to what has become conventional turf management?
Getting involved in the IGA resulted in one heck of an experience. It has cost me friends, reputation, and money - but I wouldn't have missed it for the world. I have made a whole new set of friends, learned many new things about turf management, even after 30 years with qualifications coming out of my ears, and had the privilege of helping a great bunch of greenkeepers become better leaders and managers through our, free, training sessions.
Associations can be great for education, training and linking people, but the GMB Union route was taken by people who realised that voluntary associations have no legal standing when representing members in employment issues. This has been a hard year for many in our industry and the reality of the effectiveness, and true cost, of using so called 'free legal help' has highlighted some of the difficulties faced by well meaning membership organisations. A union representative is only one of two people who have the legal right to represent an employee in a dispute situation. Everyone else can be told to go away, leaving the employee on their own.
To all who supported the IGA, I thank you, and hope that we will all continue to get behind those who strive to improve the lives of those who maintain and manage turf surfaces.
Best regards
Andy Turnbull
Well said Andy, as for ken barber, what have you done apart from make a wage to help your fellow greenkeeper
Not that I am in any position to truly comment but from an outside view I do not think this is the time or place for the route this thread could take now....... it does the intentions of IGA/Greenkeeping no good and from my personal contact does a sharing, informative, forward thinking postee a possible injustice..
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
Barry, a first class philosophy. If we can't learn from our past mistakes then they become of no value. Best regards, Ian Mac.
The thread could take many routes.
I think many people were dubious of the intentions of some people. Personally i couldn't careless what their intentions were - I thought the idea of the iga was very laudable. It does cost money and time to set these sorts of thing up and a heck of a lot of dedication to make them work - imo someone without a business mind isn't going to make it work.
So hats off to those that dared to try and change things.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
As a founder member we thank you all for your support and yes not having a business background made it even harder to get off the ground. A job still remains unfinished perhaps our Host could be the missing ingrediant as we would be all a 100% behind them. We can only hope.
mad4mud
7 Oct 2009 by SOS
As free education for all was one thing the iga pressed and delivered on aswell as trying to raise the profile of our profession I would like to say a big well done to everyone involved.
Dave what's your thoughts on the current state of careers advise etc given to schools and colleges as I feel that there is nothing in place from any organision at present to cater for this. Is this something that pitchcare could help the trade out with for the future of our industry as you may have the resources to enable this to happen?
7 Oct 2009 by vid
I admire greatly the effort, time and knowledge put in to the IGA initiative and I hope that the founders of this have not given up completely. The fact that it has not engaged the grass roots of the industry is sad but not altogether surprising. I have made a few phonecalls and had a few conversations on the direction the industry should take myself, but it is extremelydifficult to see a way forward that is going to grab the attention of everyone. There is a lot of will there but getting the commitment from people is the crux of the matter.
Some like and stick with the IOG others ditto with BIGGA, all sides of the industry like to congregate around Pitchcare but even with the amount of discussion, we collectively have not come up with the right formula that engages all strands of the roots of our industry. I think it enormously brave to take a punt at a new organisation and sad that it could not pick up support.
I think everyone wants a dynamic organisation that all but replaces the dinosaurs of the past, one that truely believes in pulling employees and employers from our diverse sectors together so that all benefit. Not an easy task, if you take the GMB/TGWU route as an employer you come up against a them and us attitude that has no place for me as an employer, for the employee as already stated here an expensive insurance policy that struggles to represent the individual needs of a small niche in the union.
How do you represent the needs and aspirations of individuals, small businesses, large businesses, government departments (Both national and local), tradesmen, craftsmen, managers, salesmen, directors, chairmen, owners etc etc. I know I am not alone worrying about this, I wish I had more time to discuss and explore this further but I too have mouths to feed and employees to pay!!
7 Oct 2009 by SOS
Hi Vid
Directional needs is one thing, attention grabbing is another, but careers advise is also another matter! I would love to see a poll on this site about how everyone involved within our trade chose their career path and who fell into it by accident. Strong roots good grass.
Respect to all
Hi vid, a good read,thank you. I also wish that you had "had more time to discuss and explore as you would have been an advantage to our cause. However to have attempted to represent the needs and aspirations of all would also have evaded our parameter of intent? Like us all, I dont know what would have been the key to our success but the key to an even earlier demise would most certainly have been trying to please everybody. Again thank you for your kind words which I'm sure will mean a lot to many. Best Regards, Ian Mac.
Back to Top - Go to Next Unread Message
This Message is closed, you may not post a reply at this time
