In have been asked by my groundsmans association to post a question on this forum. The graden scarifer we have is fitted with a Honda GX390 engine. Has any other user of this engine had problems with this engine ? We have had one blow up after only about 20hr work. the new engine which was fitted last year has now started to develop similar things. The pull cored will snatch back fiercely, it does not start as well as most Honda engines do and the engine when started is quit noisy.
Is the gx390 a rouge model or are we just unlucky?
8 Oct 2009 by Mike
I have no personal experience of the Graden or the GX390, but with the nature of the work (dusty), regular cleaning/replacement of the air filter is a must on any scarifier - especially those used on cricket squares, so an inspection of your air filter assembly might be a good place to start.
Mike
Well said Mike A, the Honda GX 390 is a good engine, very reliable and used in a large variety of applications all over the world. You could consider fitting an oil bath air cleaner if dust is the culprit, call Jane 2 at Kensett's, she will send you details of the convesion.
Cal
Hi Yes is does work in dusty conditions so the machine goes out to clubs with a clean or new air cleaner fitted and a spare one to be changed as and when.
8 Oct 2009 by tidod
Hi Guys
I am the owner of an 8 year old Graden which has done sterling work on mainly cricket squares.
At the latest count I have used it on 16 squares this season end in extremely dusty and concrete conditions apart from today which was a blessed relief. I have experienced multiple problems with the machine caused I think mainly by the dry conditions - dust everywhere in the filters, caked around the pulleys and belts. Wear on the belts has been above average and I have lost count of the times the machine has faltered. I have also managed to blow the 1 year old cheaper Chinese version of the Honda GX390 three days ago.
I think we are having an extreme year and I know I am not alone as other Graden operators around the Midlands have been in the same boat.
Never mind only two more to do and the weather looks favourable again after tomorrow.
Regards
Geoff Calcott
I've used the Graden on cricket blocks in the UK & NZ. You must change the air filter everyday in dusty conditions. Keep 2 in stock, then you can swap them over, after you've cleaned them out.
That Chinese Lilfan engine is a shocker!
Eddie,
My first engine siezed just inside the first years warranty, faulty oil sensor was the culprit. The current engine has now been in use at least seven years with no problems, although the pull cord is prone to gripping your fingers occasionally when the engine bites back.
My machine carries out approx 12 cricket square reno's, three tennis courts and a bowling green each autumn plus it gets a weeks hire at a golf club during March, so it is earning its keep.
Tractor mounted machine does approx the same each year trouble free. This also includes scarifying the cores on a soccer and rugby pitch in early april. This autumn it has also been heavily used tilthing three cricket squares whilst laser leveling the surfaces.
Brilliant machines, if any body wants to sell one please contact me.
Not wishing to contradict the boss but the pedestrian Graden has done 13 squares in my hands and 1 more in his under my gaze whilst following with the sisis brush picking up!
Only problem caused by wear and tear on belt pulley wheel and belts which needed replacing. With continuous running for a tankful of fuel at a time on several occasions, no problem apart from operative fatigue! Never had a problem with starting engine once. Have cleaned air filter out most days but otherwise engine not an issue.
Proud to serve grassroots cricket
Eddie , exactly the same thing happened to our Graden last year, , our mechanic recokons that when someone took the air filter off to clean it it wasnnt replaced properly, dust then got sucked into the engine and damaged it.
He said Something about "reverse compression" occuring??? ( so i was told) is the reason why the pull cord snaps back (Sumo)
Just had a new engine put on, not looking forward to the invoice.
A clogged air filter will not damage an engine. The more clogged it gets the better it stops dirt getting through. It eventualy stops the engine running through air starvation when it becomes too blocked. Changing a filter in dusty conditions without washing the machine off first will allow dust into the engine. Blowing the filter out with an air line is another way of damaging an engine as the compressed air damages the filter material which then allows dirt through.
The kickback on starting is because of the size of engine with a recoil starter. If gently pulled until compression is felt then given a firm pull it will not kick back. In the days of starting handles, if the engine was not turned round to compression point first, a broken wrist would quite often ensue!
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
Chris, it wasnt a blocked air filter, it was cleaned out and when it was put back on it wasnt put back properly, resulting in dust by passing the filter, straight into the engine, scoring the pistons apparently.
and believe me, it DID kick back.
Just goes to show how important the air filter is. As I said . If you pull gently until you can feel compression and then give it a firm pull it will be far less likely to bite!
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
hi all! from my experience being the graden man for uk europe middle east and india,
we've had about four engines blow up that i know of,
two within 30mins of using the machine
(GS04) but most of the problems excluding dust re using on cricket squares is the machine being transported on trailers with the petrol turned on apparently on honda engines the float can stick causing petrol to find its way into the engine when i first demoed a machine to peter at the hurlingham club it was smoking like an old dog thats when i realized the problem having just traveled from notts county ground without turning the petrol off. i now tell everyone about this issue so please remember when youv,e finished your job turn the BLOODY tap off good luck all cheers keith ps or buy a GBS1200 straight reel pto!! (no problem!!)
Keith
I have hired a Graden for the last 2 years from the Surrey GA and have had breakdowns both times. Last year the core went and this year a split pin went on the engage mechanism. Also I had a lot of problems with the pull cord, it snapped twice and I found it to be very harsh as you mentioned earlier.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
9 Oct 2009 by paul.
All
Was a huge graden fan,but this year by complete chance used the sisis 600! Not sure the blades are tunsten tipped,but it does of course pick up all the rubbish!
As for recoil, as some one said the trick is to pull the cord softly untill resistance is felt before giving it the sink!
I believe this is called getting the piston to "top dead",Remember watching my grandad come flying over the wall once when he got it wrong trying to kick start his old triumph motorbike,
Anyway Sisis or Graden?look forward to peoples views.
ps thought both machines would benefit from single diesel lump and air filter on handlebars,but would of course cost more!
I used a borrowed Sisis 600 last year when the Graden broke down and , yes blades were tungsten tipped, found the Sisis easier to use although I took the collector off as emptying it after each pass was a pain but at least you had the option.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Given how much the things cost you'd have thought that they'd fit an electric starter nowadays.
I've not used the sisis 600 in anger yet - but the demo's I've seen of it showed it to be a competent machine. I've not sure of the advantage of picking up the arisings at the time of scarifying as I dare say you still have to go over the surface again to pick up what's escaped - so does it really save any time ?
This year I had the Allen V star (have used one previously at Plymouth). I think it's a great machine - hydraulic up and down for the blades and electric start. I suppose with the hydraulics there's more to go wrong but I think it's worth it. If you hit a hard patch and the engine starts struggling then it's simple to raise the blades a fraction then go back down when you're past the problem.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Hi all
Can anyone explain when using the Sisis what advantage there is to removing the box when scarrifying, firstly your eating all the dust and youve still got to sweep it all up with the brush on ??
Paul
Cant be asked to empty the box after a couple of passes and you still have to sweep/blow off anyway
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
hi,
not sure how old my graden is Keith, i think i was one of the first to buy this bit of kit of you in the UK,...10 years ??.
I do about 30 end of season renovations a season, so this machine has been through hell.
Other than a few modifications, this is the best bit of kit i have used in 25 years.
thanks graham for your invention
thanks keith for your risky investment in bringing it to the UK
chris
11 Oct 2009 by vid
I'm surprised at some of the comment here that its a chore to empty the box on each run most specifically on cricket. Certainly with the ARR4 - I would expect to empty the box on every second long run or I would think the machine was not doing its job and would look to adjust it. With the 600 I think that removing the majority of the fibrous and stoney material before it has a chance to fall back down the clean slot has got to be an advantage. The resulting loose soil that is generated being heavier will fall underneath any vegetative residue and so long as the profile of the pitch (square or table!!!) contains the right soil type this soil lying in the slot will not cause any problems, I dont feel the need to remove any of the remaining material as I find it does not affect the finish.
Cleaning the slot thoroughly is only necessary if soil exchange to the full depth of the slot is required. Should this be the case you probably should have hollow cored anyhow.
With the Graden you dont have this choice, which forces you to brush or blow out the slots, but it has to be said the machine is far more robust.
Our programme means we verticut throughout the season and there is little or no thatch in our profile at the end of the season, so the problem is not so prevalent
re lifting the blades hydraulically when hitting a hard patch (JL) I may still be a big strong boy though approaching 57 but find lifting the handles of the Graden does the same trick without the hydraulics to go wrong (the biceps seem robust enough!)
vid - what top dressing have you been using if you are removing stony material alongside fibrous?
Proud to serve grassroots cricket
Barry
used the box all the time emptied every 2 passes its easier to empty before it gets too full, have 2 barrows at the end can get 10 boxes in, try and find a face to barrow off, hardest part is when the brush is on sneak another pass and then cant lift it dust weighs very heavy.
12 Oct 2009 by vid
Phil, havent used a topdressing yet that is stone free even if they go through 1/4" screen, so would rather see these in the box than returned to the surface where they are much harder to remove with a blower - tending to lodge back in the slots
Hi Thanks for every ones input. we seam to have got of the original thread but very interesting. I have been to a sisis demo with the 600 scarifier and was very impressed. I used a Sisis mk4 for years and found it did really good job, after I had got the ground conditions right. As far as using the box I use 2 trailer, 1 at each end of the square and empty the box after each run. I then use the brush just to tidy up and get rid of any large amounts left on top. I will report your comments back to the committee as we have a meeting this evening.
Eddie g
12 Oct 2009 by Mike
Regarding top dressing, stones etc. If you have your screen set to 1/4", how does your screen know the difference between a 1/4" of loam and a 1/4" stone? It doesn't, so stones can, and do find their way into bags of loam.
I wouldn't want to pull apart anyone's products in a public forum, but I recently looked closely at the contents of several different loams, and many of them did contain stones - the stone content in one bag in particular was alarming.
Again no mention of names but I found none in the loam I used again this year.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
The only loam i have ever seen stone free is Ongar supplied from Binders and Mendip loam.
The Ongar I used this year is the first I've seen that 'appeared' to be stone free. I don't know how they do it though because as you say Mike a screen knows no difference between soil and stone if it's the right size.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Ok, I got my Surrey loam from Surrey Loam ltd, no stones
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
likewise Barry, never had any stones or nastys using Surrey Loams ltd ( 125 GOSTD dressing.)
Well thanks people! Had to put a new belt on my truespread last week and behold today, whilst dressing our tennis courts a bloody great big stone was forced through the new belt, off to sisis again £60 worse off.
Good job we use GOSTD on the cricket.
13 Oct 2009 by Mike
Commentators curse, Vic!
Hope you're well.
Yep, the GOSTD seems good to me.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Gents
I use GOSTD on my tennis court. Could not reccomend them more highly!.
Phil
Would choose Graden over Sisis every time. Blades & belts wear on Sisis too frequently.
Changed blades & spacers on Graden this week from 15 blades to 30 blades, using 12mm spacers instead of 25mm. Excellent result.
Thatch is the biggest problem on UK cricket blocks, then poor quality wicket soil. Sisis is part of the problem. Does not scarify deep enough.
On premier club blocks, thatch is usually 1/4 to 3/4 inch. Terrible. A zero tolerance policy needs to be applied.
Koro top off, level, then keep thatch to a minium with the Graden. Check fert & watering levels too.
A Sisis will pick at the problem, but never cure it.
Boxing off is a no no because of capacity.
Use rakes, rotary mowers, reel mowers & blowers after each pass.
Sorted.
Must be getting close to the time that invitations go out for the GOSTD Christmas lunch, but then it is a great meal and M is a fantastic host. 
Oh yes Vic
Was there last year - crept in on the back of a mate who was Head groundsman at a large public school 
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Willard,
I am not terribly impressed by your posting and the view that most groundsmen in the UK are poor and all our equipment and materials are equally poor. I am proud to be British and I have a huge respect for most of the groundsmen in this Country, who take pride in their work and the thought that they allow thatch build up without checking it, frankly is wrong.
It may be simple to koro off every year etc etc but is it really cost effective or necessary.
16 Oct 2009 by pacman75cricket
I will back you up on that Vic.
Square scarified with an auto rake( many thanks Vic)
Had IOG course & cores were taken from pitch with nil or next to nil thatch so would disagree with comments.
3 passes of autorake.
In an ideal world would Koro as have other problems but costs negate for us & about 99% of clubs in the uk.
Quite frankly, koroing each year seems a ridiculously expensive and over dramatic way to go on. A quarter inch of thatch is hardly a disaster is it?
Obviously Willard has no limit to his budget when a lot of club groundsman worry about adding another 100 quid to the yearly costs.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Willard
As I said in an earlier post I have used a sisis for years,and if the conditions are right, soft (and that in your on hands) I have know problem getting all the thatch out. If you have 1/4" to 3/4" of thatch I would think the square has not be looked after in the past years. Most of the PQSs done on squares in my area have little or no thatch. Not sure what you mean by boxing is a no no and as far as removing whats left on top I have found only a sisis fitted with a brush does a clean job.
I have worked on 5 premier blocks in the Surrey Championship. Average thatch layer 1/4 - 3/4 Inch. That is the norm for most club blocks in the UK.
I believe Cranfield University will be preparing a paper on thatch for the ECB in the near future.
I'm English, have worked in both hemispheres. I'm just stating what I have witnessed.
I also prefer Graden machines to Sisis.
Koroing will remove the excessive thatch layer, using a Graden pre & end of season will keep thatch down thereafter.
Fact.
Where in my previous posts have I mentioned Koroing every year?
Where have I criticized UK groundsman?
I have merely stated that a Sisis won't scarify at depth in dry conditions (which are best for collecting debris).
I would remove the top every 3 years, and just scarify hard every other year, pre & end of season with the Graden.
This won't happen in the UK though due to lack of funding.
Well done to the people who have less than a 1/4 inch of thatch on their blocks. I have only seen that at a couple of club grounds in Surrey, notably the ones who have a full time groundsman. And that was 3 at last count, Guildford, Reigate & Wimbledon...
Willard
Ive got about 4mm of thatch. Still think koroing every 3 years seems not only expensive (not just the cost of koroing but alsi the seed and loam involved) but over the top.
It doesnt take that long does it, to keep the thatch down in season by light scarifying does it?
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
18 Oct 2009 by pacman75cricket
Barry presume you meant 4mm of thatch before scarifying.
Then when preparing tracks grass is thinned so should be reducing organic matter in profile.
Also by verticutting to limit thatch build up.
As Ryegrass is a tuftedgrass should be less thatch build than other grasses that produce stolon & rhizones.
My view would be end of season renovations should be able to remove amount of thatch built during a season.
19 Oct 2009 by willard Last edited 19 Oct 2009
Be careful when measuring thatch depth straight from taking a sample, as it has been squashed by the force of the corer. Let it dry out & re shape itself, then measure it.
Koroing every 3 years ensures thatch layer is completely removed, you don't need to remove any soil.
Then tilth up existing soil, add some new dressing & re level. I've found the results very good.
Rye grass has a lot of fibre as it becomes more mature. I know a lot of clubs in the Southern Hemisphere that spray off their block every year with total, just to have a new covering of grass with little dead matter. It works very well. Mind you growth rates are much higher down here because of climate, plenty of rain & sun, therefore build up occurs much more quickly.
Back to UK blocks, I found most of the blocks I worked on had on average 1/2 inch thatch layer, 1/4 inch was rated good, 3/4 inch excessive.
I found using a Sisis scarifier never really dealt with the problem. After Koroing, a Graden was much better to keep the levels down below 1/4 inch.
Dr Iain James of Cranfield University has concluded thatch is a big problem on UK cricket blocks. After that, I would say poor quality wicket soil.
After working overseas, I would have to agree. Hopefully the ECB will take note. There should be a national thatch register carried out on premier club blocks by the STRI.
In Auckland, the cricket association pays the NZSTI to constantly monitor all premier club blocks.
Works well, takes out all the guess work, and bullshit stories...
Pacman
Im talking about 4 samples taken just before end of season work. But I do scarify tracks during the season each week, roughly 10 days before they are played on.
Willard, Im not talking about samples beinng taken before koroing because it isnt koroed each year.
Also , do you know how much koroing costs over here?
Also I think getting koroing down effectively isnt that straight forward, getting someone to Koro without taking soil isn not easy so then you would also be left with the work and expense of re-seeding and loaming the whole square
Comparing what is done in the southern hemishere as being what should be done here, doesnt make sense to me. You say you have worked in Uk, so you must know how much warm weather we get!
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
19 Oct 2009 by Mike
Having operated a Koro on a couple of cricket squares recently, I can say from experience that much of the difficulty in taking too much soil off or not is dependent on the initial levels of the surface that you are working on. Koro'ing a flat surface is a piece of cake.
When talking about removing too much soil, and the expense of replacing it, as with most things, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Mike
and when would you Koro a squareand how much would it cost? To do it as a matter of course every 3 years does not make sense to me, maybe Im wrong.
Ive seen sqaures koroed whenthe end saddles are to high, fair enough. Our square was koroed twice, the first time because of really poor end of season work (Before my time I add!)and it was a complete abortion, done by supposed professionals. done the second much better just to put right what the first lot of cowboys loused up but it still required a lot of seed and loam. Admittedly the second lot had to go down deep because it was such a mess.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
19 Oct 2009 by Mike Last edited 19 Oct 2009
Don't get me wrong Barry, I am not suggesting people should or shouldn't Koro, I was merely stating the logistical variations in using one regarding how much soil is removed.
Cost can be prohibitive for many, and imo, there is nothing wrong with managing thatch levels via scarification, verticutting and aeration.
Cost - this is a bit of a double edged sword. You pay a small fortune to have the top taken off, then you have to pay another fortune to incorporate new material. Let's think outside the box for the minute. If we only remove the vegetation, and the square is fairly flat, we aren't removing a load of soil which subsequently has to be replaced, so do we actually need to import that much more loam than we usually would? To take things a stage further, if you do remove a large amount of soil, where does it go?
Edit: Apologies Barry, I didn't answer your question fully.
When would I Koro? As with everything else, I would Koro when the situation dictated that a) I can Koro (financially), and b)when the circumstances dictate that a Koro is the most suitable option given the circumstances. In an ideal world, I personally wouldn't Koro at all as I would have hoped that my maintenance practices would negate the need to Koro - and I scarify with a Sisis scarifier, which I am delighted with. I certainly don't subscribe to the Koro every three years ideal, that's like saying we should get a cylinder blades sharpened every year - you cannot govern such practices by a strict time frame.
Mike
Saddles are a quirk of UK cricket blocks. You can remove them easily with a koro across the direction of play, then koro the whole block in line with play. Providing the blades aren't worn unevenly it's possible to remove all the grass with just a little wicket soil included in the spoil.
Then break up the remaining wicket soil with a Graden and re level. You shouldn't need too much soil, as most older blocks sit quite high. 1/2 inch off the whole block max excluding the saddles.
I work on our Auckland East contract, over the bridge, North Shore City, it's in our contract to koro & laser level the blocks every year! Not a Sisis in sight.
If you can't afford a koro (we own one), check out an alternative @ www.turf-mate.com
Over & out.
Willard
Your in a different world mate, well the other end of it to be precise.
You still havent answered the question about the cost.
Got any idea how much they charge to Koro a square over here?
One of my sons played at North Shore 2007/2008, obviously you havent got enough room there as many A grade games were played with a shared outfield, funny for a place with only 4 million people!
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
20 Oct 2009 by Neil Dixon Last edited 20 Oct 2009
Barry, somewhere in the region of £500 +. Dependent on a 2 main factors;
Can you supply a driver / trailer to remove the spoil
How much needs to be taken off ( so how long would it take - 1 day, half a day, 2 days ect??)
The company i use charge by the day / half day, others may charge per job.
Mike,
Please don't take this question the wrong way but you raise an interesting point for me.
You mention that you recently Koro'd off a couple of squares. Are you fully trained in the operation of that machine as I don't believe it is part of your normal business?
If I were hiring in a specialist piece of equipment, with operative, I would want to be sure that person was very familiar with the machinery if paying a few thousand pounds.
A few years ago I had to completely remake one end of my square after it had been pulled to pieces during a similar operation.
Barry,
The shared outfields are a bit odd. Gotta leave room for the sheep!
They still charge £2K in Blighty for Koroing?
Some joker did a block for me in Dulwich with f**ked blades, turf machinery hire, I think that was their last job...
Check out www.turf-mate.com, a cheaper alternative.
No conveyor belt though, you just rip the debris off the block & collect later. Makes a good level seed bed too & you can attach a laser.
Sweet as!
20 Oct 2009 by Mike Last edited 20 Oct 2009
Hi Vic - You raise a very valid point.
I was actually working for a contracting company on the mainland which I do annually. I also received manufacturer training on the Koro and I have the NPTC tractor driving certificate (in addition to several other nptc certs, loading shovels, dumpers, excavators etc), half way through my NVQ 2, a couple of iog certificates, attended numerous manufacturer training days, and add in over 10 years of being a groundsman/greenkeeper who spends 90% of my time operating various forms of machinery. I think that is pretty much as much as I could do to be qualified to start operating the machinery? Experience is another factor, but one can only gain experience by going out and doing the job - fortunately I was under the watchful eye of an employee of the manufacturer until I was conversant and comfortable with the operation of the machine.
My main source of employment may not include jobs such as Koroing and such like, but that is not a reason for me to hold back my fundamental knowledge? i am a big believer in getting out there and learning as much as you possibly can - I am certainly not willing to tailor my knowledge to the demands of working on one specific site. I regularly volunteer my services to companies on the mainland in an effort to learn how to undertake tasks that I don't usually get to see over here.
Mike
Blimey Mike..... bet your CV is longer than War and Peace ROFL....
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
20 Oct 2009 by Mike
One must always try to better themselves Barry.
Mike,
I had no intention of questioning you about what personal experiences you have.
My question is geared more towards the contractors. Sure one needs to learn and gain experience of machinery but as someone who is employing a company to come in and offer a professional service, I would be disturbed if I knew that operative was not a regular user of the machine.
I have a piece of kit that I was given manufacturer training in, this training took 30 minutes maximum, involved me driving it forwards and backwards in a straight line and then I was left to my own devises. I still find it difficult, 2 years on.
Vic.
Willard
I am 4 years out of touch with koroing prices but would think they have not got cheaper.I do not know the name of the mob that did it first time but they were obviously cowboys obtained by the then contractor who was doing our square.
But apart from arguing about whether it is right or wrong for over here, it is a non starter for cost purposes for the majority of clubs.
Many clubs here ( in Surrey anyway) have thrown so much money at players, they have none left ( especially in the current climate as some of their sugar daddies have bolted) for providing tools , services to make their squares as good as possible.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
20 Oct 2009 by Mike Last edited 20 Oct 2009
Vic - I took your question in the spirit that it was meant, and you were right to ask the question in the first place - I would want to know the credentials of anyone who were to undertake such a task on a surface that I looked after, as with such potentially destructive machinery, it is easy to undo many years of hard work.
I remember many years ago when I took my motorbike test. At the end of my first lesson, my instructor put me in for my test, I had another lesson the week after, and the following week was my test, which I passed. This is in no way blowing my own trumpet, but I find that training in general is relative to ones ability to pick up what they are being taught. I'm fortunate where machinery is concerned as I usually pick things up really quickly, although in some other areas, no matter how hard I try, I can't can't get to grips with things that others may find easy.
What I do know is that if I was unsure of anything before being left to my own devices on any machine, I would not use the machine and I would secure further training before proceeding with any work. I would also fully expect that any company who was unsure of the operators competence to restrict the operator from carrying out the said task until his/her competence was proven. As a matter of course, each member of staff who work under me have to prove their competence before I let them use any machinery.
At the end of the day, even the most skilled and experienced operators had to start somewhere? When do we know when someone is ready to operate a given machine - qualifications, manufacturer training, supervision, natural aptitude etc? I have a young apprentice that works with me - when do I decide he is capable of operating our aerator, or scarifier, or our boom sprayer? Each machine has the potential to be extremely destructive if operated incorrectly. The only thing that I can do is give him training, both internally and externally, and then give him the opportunity to prove himself when I feel he is ready. Fortunately, someone was willing to put their faith in me and offer me the chance to undertake the type of task that I have been working towards for the last 10 years.
For someone who has ambition like I, and many other young (ish) groundsmen have, what else can we do to get the opportunity to learn, and to prove ourselves? I am very grateful to the company who offered me the opportunity, and i'd like to think that I performed to an acceptable standard.
Anyway, apologies for the long winded rant, though i'm sure that it made interesting reading for Barry P (!), but as I alluded to earlier, I am a huge believer in developing as many skills as possible through training, education, opportunity and experience... and I hope that you are keeping well, Vic.
Now, did someone mention something about a Graden?
Like the bottom paragraph Barry, same up here 20k last season cant get 20 quid without a begging bowl for the ground really pi...s me off
Quote in the Surrey area for koro: £2.5k. £2k if I could find another club in the area so they could do 2 in a day.
I think we all know what we need, what would be best. Most of our clubs can't afford it though.
20 Oct 2009 by ricam
It's a pity some of you can not join together to purchase one of the smaller Koro Topmakers, or even the ECB provide one for the counties to go with their trailers. They are not as expensive as some of you may think.
Mike,
My final comment. If you bought a graden at work, my guess is your apprentice would learn how to use it on your patch. That would be completely different to you sending him off on a contract for a club paying hard earned resources.
Paul
Its coming home to roost in the current financial climate with some clubs and I take no satisfaction in that. After all, it must be very tempting when some ego pumped sugar Daddy comes alone waving a cheque book to get better players and some success etc but these people can go as quickly as they come. Unfortunately, some clubs have poured money at players who are nothing more than mercenaries, failed pro cricketers, ex-pros over the hill etc.
For some clubs it has brought success but others it has not and nearly ruined them.
A club in our league has alledgedly been refused promotion to the premier div because their facilities, including the playing area, are not up to scratch. This club has for some several years been paying players to achieve the on field success but have not spent the money on the facilities etc.
Ricam
I for one, for the reasons stated by Mike A, would not want to use a koro on my ground after an hours "tuition" by a sales rep. I have seen what lack of proper knowledge when using a koro can bring and the results can be terrible.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
21 Oct 2009 by ricam
Barry G.
Obviousley you have had bad experience with someone using a machine incorrectly. I can assure you that I or any of my staff both sales and demo lads know more about Koro than anyone!. It is probably one of the only machines on the market that will cure a thatch problem, either with the standard blades fitted, or alternatively with the scarification rotor and collector fitted. Its use has been proven in many venues from Real Madrid, AELTC to High Lane CC two weeks ago.
Spot on Barry.
The ECB should buy each County a Koro for Groundsman to use themselves.
There a plenty of cowboys out there, doing a sh1t job with the machine.
I'm grateful my firm owns one, new blades are a must for a good finish without removing any wicket soil.
ricam
I take your word that you and yor staff are experts. But my point is that most club squares are not that flat and one would have to be very skilled in using a koro not to take off more than just the thatch level. Even if you did take off just the thatch level, it surely is going to mean A) a covering of loam over the whole square and then b) much more seed than wouuld normally be used at end of season renovation?
This combined with the cost of the koroing,would put it beyond the means of your average cricket club as a means of thatch control.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
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