14 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
 |
14 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
 |
14 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
 |
14 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
 |
14 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
 |
14 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
Sorry **The dead grass does have a straw look to it which is how Red Thred looks at the end but I *WOULDN'T* expect to see Red Thread in neutral ph level soils **
Also the owners have told me they have not really watered their garden much, so maybe it is the tree roots.
One last thing is the lawn company scarified in April this year, but missed parts of the lawn so the owners asked them to come back and finish the job off. They came back 2 weeks later...... and scarified the WHOLE LAWN again !!!! Owners told me it left it in a right mess with chunks out all over the place !!!!
All this on a sandy sub-base so probably not much thatch left to retain any of the nutrients the lawn company apply !!!!
Some of these supposed 'Trained' Lawn Care operatives/companies are a nightmare !!!!
Rant over !! ;-)
14 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
My brain has moved into gear now I have read what I have typed .... More than likely Dry Patch.... Owners not watered / near tree roots / patchy !! Anyone agree ?? or Dis-agree ?? ;-)
14 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
Sorry forgot to say. I am 2yrs NVQ2 Qualified after college @ Merrist Wood with Andy McEvoy teaching !! ;-)
BP69.
I don't know what the problem is, but if I employed a company that made a mess of a job first time round, then a worse mess second time, I'm not sure that I would give them a third shot.
I know that's no consolation to your brother, but perhaps he needs to be a bit more hard nosed next time?
The ciderman rolls
1st pic looks like fertiliser scorch ( and i assume these pics are recent??), I would not identify this as red thread ( from the pics supplied)
not wanting to get into the difference of opinions on lawn care companies but i would ask them the following questions;
Why fertilise during a very dry warm month.?
Why did they not advise the customer that they should have watered in ?
just what did they apply, how, and at what rate?
Definatley a scorch problem, why not get the company back out to inspect and rectify the problem?
As regards to redthread, in my experiance can occur in different ph levels and would not cause this type of damage
Red thread is usually a consistent sign of nutrient deficency, so if the fertilsier company is claming it to be red thread, ask them why the fertiliser they are putting down is not controlling the red thread......... after all, that is why you are paying them isnt, it, for fertilser treatments.........
14 Oct 2009 by Mr R Last edited 14 Oct 2009
From the pictures I could not tell if Red thread, but does not look like scorch to me. The type of fert you describe sounds like a Poly-S coated fertiliser slow release type to me, so unlikely to scorch unles they poured it on.
Could be fungul type problem from red thread - dry patch both of which I have had to deal with recently. Firstly try taking core sample this will tell you if the soil is dry or not. Also is the grass growing well or struggling? Red thread will supress effected areas growth.
Get the lawn company back and if it is dry patch you may well need to use a wetting agent and water well for week or two hopefully it will start to recover.
Stri note that there has been occurance/appearance of nitrogen tolerant red thread
14 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
Thanks for the replies chaps. I think I will give the lawn care company a call, like Neil suggests so I can find out exactly what fertilizer they applied.
I think I can answer your questions Neil's !!!!
Why fertilise during a very dry warm month ? Becasue that is the time in the customers contract and they probably do all the gardens in the area at the same time. They want the money and as they are probably un-trained they just do as they are told !!!!
Why did they not advise the customer that they should have watered in ? More than likely the sad fact is the operative is probably a franchisee and at best has probably had a day's FAST TRACK training and that's about it !!!!
I am still scratching my head on this one thou !! The company applied fertilizer to the whole lawn and other areas are un-affected. It is just the grass around the tree area. The home owners have NOT watered for many weeks !!!!
The healthy grass around the damaged areas show no signs of Red Thread. But the damaged grass has got a straw like effect to it, which is how Red Thread disease looks when at the final stages. But the straw look could just be the grass dying from lack of water attributed to the Dry Patch.
I think I have ruled out schorching, as the home owners informed me that the operative used a push along spreader so I am assuming it was applied correctly and I would not expect to see patchy schorching. I would expect all or nothing, unless it was hand applied and heavy application is ceratin areas. The damaged/diseased grass pull out easiley and there is no root structure and the soil is very very dry so I am probably going to advise punching some holes with a fork and watering the affected areas and see how that goes !!
14 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
Does anyone know of a hose attachment for home use to apply wetting agents ?? We only have the industrial ones that attached to the irrigation system hoses. I have had a qucik search on tinternet but not found anything for home use ??
Even if a muppet is walking around with a gold plated titanium disced all singing all dancing spreader and a customer has a full irrigation system he may as well have spread fertiliser from a leaky wheelbarrow if he stops on the ends, leaves the gate open and then he moves even after a second the nice circular pattern could be caused by all that fert sitting on the disc...........................
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
15 Oct 2009 by vid Last edited 15 Oct 2009
Without being there for a look its pretty hard to tell - has there been a fairly heavy leaf fall without it being cleared - it looks most like the ground has been smothered for a while and then cleared - just a guess. Doesnt look like disease at all, could it be chafer or leather jacket infestation.
I'm not so sure Barry about the circular bit, in my experience the centre would be the dead bit not the green bit and the dead pattern would be more regular and clearly defined - difficult to tell. Could be where the fertilising has doubled up
Grass looks long, thick and tangled and rather unkept. Very dry conditions, possibly some smothering as Vid suggests. Possibly thatch fungas or just dying.
Cannot understand all this feeding of garden lawns when usually just a good old watering is all that is required.
Red thread does not kill grass. It just discolours it. To me it looks like scorch where there has been uneven application. There is no telling as to what fertiliser has been applied. If it has a quick release element as well as a slow release an overdose would give the symtoms in the pictures. I like Barry's thinking regards to not shutting the gate. Makes a lot of sense. Drought conditions in this area for the last month or so would not help either and why would anybody scarify in August?
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
I trust this is the work of GREENTHUMB or any other available useless bunch of chancers.
I too have a customer with exactly the same problem. Its basically scorch. compounded by the fact that the muppets who apply these treatments have little or no knowledge or background regarding the upkeep of lawns unless of course a computer print off has told them to fulfil their contractual agreements regardless of its necessity.
To fill you in. My customer had cancelled our trusted GREENTHUMB after I had taken over the lawncare. (I'm NOT a franchise. I'm a proper professional gardener who knows some stuff). The idiots still turned up to complete a treatment which ended up in the lawn looking far worse than the one in the picture. Since September was extremely dry there was not enough rainfall to wash in the application. Nothing was ever mentioned to the customer at all that either the treatment was completed or indeed any follow up treatment(watering) was needed.
This highlights(for me) the very fact that the people touting themselves as 'professional lawncare experts' haven't a clue about the work they do and moreover even less idea about follow up treatments.
Roll on January when its all frozen over and I bet I can get a photo of one of the plums either scarifying or hollow coring.
When will people realise????????
No Fork handles....Handles for forks!!
18 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
Hi Mick. CORRECT-A-MUNDO as to the 'Lawn Care Professionals' who have contributed to this problem !! To be honest I did not think about the leaving of the gate open. Mainly because it is 'NOT A DONE THING' in our industry, but like Mick mentions these muppets are not awae of these issues. I am finding I am having to think outside of the box, and think about what we are trained not to do !!!!!.... One thing is that there must be an awful lot of 'Trained Professionals' going thru this companies business. The customers I am trying to help have had 5 different operatives in a year, all fully trained.... To send an invoice me thinks !!!!!!
What area are you dealing with Mick ? As it is the same company it would be interesting to see if it is the same problem in different areas.
It pains me to know that the customers I am dealing with had their lawn fully scarrified 'TWICE' in 3 weeks. The customers complained to the company as some of the lawn had not been scarrified. So the operative came back in under 3 weeks and re-scarrified the WHOLE LAWN !!!! The customers asked why big chunks were coming out and the operative said it was los of the thatch !!!! All this on a sand based lawn ...... NICE WORK FELLAS !!!!!
So I am trying to add everything together to try to help these customers......
Sand Based Lawn
Double Sacrification
Fertlizer applied and not watered in
Possibility of spreader gate left open
Overhanging trees
And the list could go on !!!!
Another company I know of in the area, when they scarifiy they leave the debris on the lawn. They tell the customer it is good for the lawn !!!! I phoned this company and spoke to the area representative.... Without being rude he knew bugger all about anything !!!! When I pushed him about leaving the scarification debris on the lawn he admitted it was because they couldn't get rid of it as their vnas were sign written and it was to costly to dispose of correctly !!!!
It really is very scary and needs, in my opinion to be clamped down on. Therse operatives need to be FULLY TRAINED to NVQ standard so at least they have some knowledge of what they are dealing with.
Rant Over !!!!
18 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
Hi Chis.... I think the question is more why would someone scarify TWICE in 3 weeks !!!! The more I work on this for the homeowner the more I want to contact the local paper and warn other homeowners of the possible damage these so-called 'Lawn Care Professionals' are doing to their lawns !!!!
I have heard from a gardener who my sister-in-law knows and he has told me that nearly every garden that this company look after has suffered the same sort of problem. They have informed the homeowners that compained that it is Red Thread.... I find it hard that all the lawns have suffered with this. Also I am assuming that all the lawns had the same composition fertilizer applied, when some lawns in the area are sand based and others are clay based. The homeowners I am trying to help are sand based and scarifiying TWICE in 3 weeks angers me so so much !!!! Such incompetance from the un-trained operative.... There is no other way to describe them other than un-trained.... No trained/qualifed lawn care employee would scarifiy the same area twice in such a short period of time !!!! I am getting close to calling the company and speaking to the operative to find out exactly what fertilizer was applied and the application rate he used t find out if it was a heavy or light coverage.
More info to follow ....
Whilst we all know that there are some completely incompetent 'lawn care professionals' out there, there are also a few good guys doing the right thing!! And yes, one or two of them are franchised businesses, and operate in the Reigate area. Don't forget to mention that in your letter. The good guys should be championed, not bundled onto the same pile as the bad guys! I should now mention some names but that would be poor form I feel on a forum!
Hey, it's only Corticium. I think they did the right thing to some extent. It`s a garden lawn, no a winter sports surface, will be fine next year. Certainly not worth applying a fungicide over. Give it six months unless you feel like sitting ouitide through the winter admiring the lawn! Do not get them to put fertilizer down as you will get Fusarium. It's all part of nature, work with it, and i suspect you will have a lovely lawn in spring.
Usually caused by under-application of Nitrogen in summer, Over application in autumn and damp, humid, still conditions
If thats corticium I am the pope!
I treat many lawns after these so called lawn experts have made a hash of them! And it is 100% scorch.
Only 1 answer, get a lawncare company in that uses greenkeepers and groundsman and that apply treatments according to conditions, and yes we are a franchise.
20 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
Hey Major P,
From what I see the two companies I deem to have the biggest market share in the area, one has damaged quite a few lawns recently with maybe in-correct fertilizer application the other seems to think it is OK to leave all the thatch and debris from scarification on the lawn surface. Neither a very good practice really. The former seem to go thru operatives at an alarming rate !!
Corticium vanished over 20 years ago. It was renamed red thread. Must say the original name sounds better though!
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
Ummm...Corticium fuciforme was re-classified as Laetisaria fuciformis. Red-thread is just the common name.
Andy. My point exactly.
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
Major P
Mentioning names is NOT poor form, and that is exactly what the forum is about. I don't mind doing it. These so called professionals and experts for gods sake and have an equal right to come on here and defend anything that is thrown at them.
You know what? They won't since they simply are chancers. Theres one professional at Greenthumbs HQ here in N.Wales and its the guy that came up with the idea, who has now sold out to a money making machine!
Oh and by the way the numbers of 'good guys' is out weighed by the sheer volume of franchise chancers who screw up this professional on a national level. There are NO good franchisees out there at all unless they are professionally trained with minimuim experience and including possibly a PA1 & PA6 and The bloody Lawn Expert.
No Fork handles....Handles for forks!!
I very much doubt that the companies we are talking about even know about this website (or similar ones) - need I say more!!
They used to advertise on here and if they don't know of this website then they should. It being one of the leading websites regarding the turf industry in the UK and doubtless worldwide which obviously highlights both your and their naivity!
So please say more in as much as you could possibly try and defend whats being levelled at them given the proof or would that be deemed poor form.
I see sitting on the fence worse since you're unable to understand the rudimentry problem with that side of the industry, which has been highlighted on more than one occasion on this forum and people such as yourself seem duty bound to defend wholly unprofessional work and a massive lack of expertise?
The floor is yours.
No Fork handles....Handles for forks!!
23 Oct 2009 by MrC
mickjm - you are not reading the posts properly. And then you contradict yourself in your own post..they used to advertise on here.....if they don't know of this web site then they should...
Apart from you thinking that all lawn franchises are rubbish, and some are not, you seem to tar everybody with the same brush.
You hate a certain franchise and seem determined to end up in court with them.
You need to take anger management courses...chill out.
I personally love the company you hate, and so should you, because if they were good, there wouldn't be any work around for the rest of us, long may they continue to mess up peoples lawns.
mickjm - Suggest you take a deep breath and read the posts properly before you start having a dig at me! At which point did I defend their actions?? All I said is that there are some companies (few I admit) that are trained and experienced and do do the job properly.
Also, as I am sure you will realise by now, the comment re them not knowing about this site was a cheap joke.
I think we also need to remember that a lawn and a sports surface are two completely different things. The only contracter i let near my sward is "complete weed control" for the outfield (I don't have a pa2 or the equipment and i'm not doing it with a knapsack!). We have a chat when he fills up and i always learn something. Very knowledgable chap. Although he is a specialist, he probably works on a far greater variety of sports surfaces than most of us. And we have spoken about Pitchcare. I think he even subscribes. While we're on that subject i think it would be good if some of us got the magazine free (as my predecessor did, i think) in exchange for us leaving it around on the bar to "spread the word". Slight hint there Laurence!!!
OK deep breath taken.
NOW, I continue. Major P, I was merely trying to highlight the fact that you've sat on the fence by not mentioning names since its what I feel is needed in irradicating this rubbish from the industry and sitting on the fence is tantamount to defending them.
MrC. I haven't contradicted myself in saying what I have so maybe you should take your own advice and read correctly. I'll re-phrase, Greenthumb used to advertise on here and all others should know of the website.
I won't end up in court for stating the truth I can guarantee that and have and continue to invite them to prove me wrong. Their methods of recruitment are ALL financially driven. I have, as said, tarred all those who are untrained and inexperienced with the same brush. NOT those who are trained and experienced which I do acknowledge as to there being some out there but where??
I don't tout myself as a welding professional because I've a MIG welder and been on a five minute course and read the muppets guide to welding metal from 1979 now have I?
Funnily enough ALL other lawncare experts in particular GREENTHUMB do tout themselves, under the umbrella of a large mothership company as professional experts, having NO knowledge, experience or qualifications except maybe a PA1/6 and the lawn bible!!
They are NOT capable at any level of professional lawncare and quite how any of them get away with it is beyond me but they do.
Loving them for screwing up is hardly good just simply because its more work for us. They should be loved for screwing up in the hope they'll be bust sooner rather than later.
I'm not angry just passionate about this subject and quite frankly would love a show down with them!!!LOL
No Fork handles....Handles for forks!!
The muppets guide to welding 1981 was far better. The bit where animal accidentally welded gonzo's hand to kermit's a$$e was brilliant. It only got better when miss Piggy passed out from the Co2.
30 Oct 2009 by bestparis69@hotmail.co.uk
I see the main problem is that Franchise companies do not have staff trained to carry out the work correctly. Like has been mentioned previously, the homeowners in Reigate had their lawn scarified but were not happy as areas had been missed. They complained to the area rep and he sent the guy round again. Betwee the area rep and the operator one of them decided it best to scarify the ENTIRE LAWN agan, 3 weeks after the first scarification. Would a experienced / trained greenkeeper / sports turf specialist or trained lawn care person really do this ???? I know of one firm who aparently fertilize up to 10 lawns in a day. Bish Bosh give me the Dosh ... No contact with th owners and all the lawns having the same treatment. We all know that one golf or sports turf surface is different to another as the land will probably be different. There are areas in Reigate that are sand baed lawns, others that are clay... Would we treat them the same ?? I have nothing against lawn franchises that employ trained and experienced lawn specialists, but it does annoy me when I hear stories from home owners where the operaive is clearly incompetant and out to ear nas much money is as qucik a time as possible. Another company isnist it is good to leave all the scarifiying debris on the lawn. When I called the area manager as a possible new client I asekd why they did this. He said it was good for the lawn. I said my 2 children would make it into a mud field if it was not cleared. He said I could clear it if I wanted. When I pushed him more, he then said if I paid more they would clear it, as they had to pay to dump it as their vehicles were commercial ones and the local dmps would not let them dump for free !!!!
Again bottom line is time and money.... NOT HOW TO PROPERLY CARE FOR THE LAWN !!!!!
He didn't have a clue really about thatch / scarifying or aeration apart from maybe what he had read in a book. It is quite funny when I pushed him about various things to hear how incompetant he really was. Still he is probably making a very good living from it ...... !!
Mat ,
I do not see the problem in a lawn being scarified twice,we
cricket groundsmen may do this at the end of season three four or more times with a more powerful machine than the franchise companies use and with a lot less thatch to start with than the average domestic lawn would have.I agree the arrisings should cleard away.
I bet alot of the School groundsmen do their renovation
in August.
Mike
31 Oct 2009 by MrC
Imagine, if you will, Fully trained and experienced green keepers and grounds men doing this job properly with the only competition being spotty oiks. Who is going to make money then? Who is the customer going to pick to do their work? the franchise that only takes on expereinced guys, or spotty oiks
Not 500 lawns per day, bish bosh give me the dosh, but a good few done properly.
You could keep moaning about the spotty oiks, or show them how to do it properly, and earn more than you are now.
I know some of you will continue to berate, one or two might even think, that's a good idea I'll give it a go, lots of other experienced people are....
Hi MrC
"Who is going to make money then?"
Well, the company who is the object of much abuse in this thread has made a shed full of money by "500 lawns per day, bish bosh, give me the dosh". How? Well, the reality of lawn care is that the vast majority of people who employ a lawn care specialist want a green lawn. They don't care how it is achieved, just make the grass green. The key to a successful business is giving the client, the one who pays the money, what they want.
We know that it isn't good practice, but who's complaining on another two Pitchcare threads about low pay, poor working conditions and the need for another Association ? It certainly isn't lawn care specialists. Successful lawn care companies are those that provide the one thing that not many greenkeepers and groundsmen have - customer care skills. Let's not get carried away by turf care skills when we can't talk to a client properly.
Best regards
Andy Turnbull
31 Oct 2009 by MrC
Hi Aturnbull
my point is that all of the turf professionals can do a much better job than the oiks, and in doing so, can better their own situation if guided properly. It is they who are going to make the money
And they can have the same pride in their work as they have now with no "politics", or cr@p to put up with.
The different associations will not join forces, it isn't in their interest to do so at this time. They won't improve conditions in a recession or in a market place that is in decline, or in a environment where many people are part time or even voluntary and who would step up for no pay if their team asked for help.
Overstone
What makes you think you use more powerful machines than a franchice?? I have a SISIS autorake, My machine of choice, however does not always fit through mordern gates.
Please don't assume because I'am a franchise I don't know what I am doing. And I agree it is a cardinal sin to leave any arisings on the lawn, only an idiot would do so. Enter GT stage left.
Rather than saying you did not know what you were doing
I said that in scarifing more than once you were doing what
most top groundsmen do on their fine turf.
Mike
Back to Top - Go to Next Unread Message
This Message is closed, you may not post a reply at this time
