17 Oct 2009 by Clive
I would like to congratulate all at the IOG for a good conference and an excellent awards night giving praise to those who work so hard. Awards and praise given to those who work so hard with very little and can all be forgot about so easy.
To all the award winners well done.
We have asked for so long been promised so much but so many others and the IOG has suffered so many criticisms well this time and not for the first time recently they have led the way.
It is a shame that other industry news reporting channels have carried no information about what was an excellent evening with some very proud guys winning well earned awards.
Clive Liddiard MSc
Didnt go to the conference as it didnt really interest me, but attended the awards night, thought the whole evening was excellent. Compere was very good, food very good, speaker was excellent, and more importantly very deserving award winners were recognised. Only two criticisms I can think of was the booming music at the start which was almost deafening if you were sat too close to it, and the almost non existent parking in the area, which in fairness goes hand in hand with any part of London. All in all an excellent event, which if I am honest surpassed my expectations by far.
About Time
I am glad to here the iog are doing things very right in Britain, I was part of this organisation in Ireland where they have done nothing only degrade the professional people who represented them in the country. Brian
everything happens for a reason
18 Oct 2009 by PAZ
Who were the winners?
An excellent event indeed and one that should have been given some coverage on this site.
If the aim of Pitchcare is to enhance the reputation of the industry then credit where credit is due should be the approach.
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
Peter, from past experience I don't think you'll see much praise or coverage of The IOG on this site, it's a wonder this thread hasn't been deleted.
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
A different perspective........
The way it works in general here is that if you want a 'piece' to be included in the magazine or say an event to be noted on the forthcoming events bit it is up to the persons involved/representatvive to send in the relevant info to the site/mag for inclusion.
For the likes of say Lawrence to high tail out and do a 'press' report I guess he would need to be invited/included by IOG for this to happen, I would doubt he could just pop along and turn up, notebook in hand....
Of course an invitation may have been turned down or a press release not included....... that would be a poor show but if not given then the 'flack' may be better directed at IOGs internal PR department.....
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
but if not given then the 'flack' may be better directed at IOGs internal PR department.....
I'll get on to it right away!!
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
19 Oct 2009 by Dave
Gentlemen, some pointed comments. There was no praise offered and neither any criticism on this site. the event wasn't covered because the IOG chose not to advertise it through this medium, they do advertise the Windsor show on Pitchcare.
Praise where praise is due, leading the way! Come on, You would expect an event that cost sponsors and delegates a predigious amount of money to be a success. Fact is three of the posters on this thread were nominated for awards, so perhaps there is a vested interest here.
And why the veiled criticism of Pitchcare's non-interest? As I said at the beginning there was no praise nor criticism.
However because there has been one great evening's entertainment and people recognised, please don't forget that since PC's inception there has been 8 + years of learning and progression for tens of thousands of people, sponsorship for 7 years of Terrain's 'Unsung Heroes' Awards, 6 years for the Cricket Groundsman of the Year awards, 3 years judging Rugby League Groundsman of the Year and now we are also sponsoring the Racecourse Groundsmen of the Year Awards.
I would still be judging the FA Awards as well, if I hadn't been removed from office.
Let the IOG paddle their boat and we'll paddle ours, they're not interested in Pitchcare, in fact John Richards and I are nearly on our second anniversary awaiting some proposals from Geoff Webb, maybe they'll arrive next year heh!
Cheers,
Dave Saltman
'Fact is three of the posters on this thread were nominated for awards, so perhaps there is a vested interest here.'
Not at all in our case, because the comments were made after the event and the category we were nominated in we didnt win anyway (someone more deserving in my opinion won our category), so if it was a case of 'vested interest' then I would have criticised the event wouldnt I for not winning anything surely?
There is no doubt that the other awards Pitchcare are involved with also recognise individuals for excellent work, and rightly so, but having never been involved in anyway with any of them I have never commented on them in the past.
19 Oct 2009 by Dave Last edited 19 Oct 2009
Lee, sorry to hear that City didn't win, I'm sure that the winner was very deserving. I only said perhaps and you were one of the three nominated for an award.
Anyway why would you criticise an event that you went to and enjoyed, regardless of whether you won or not?
I meant to say in my first comment to Tony that only threads/comments that are libelous or blatant advertising are removed. The site can only be run as a free service if supported by sponsors; allowing people to post services/products at will, without commercial support would soon end the facility.
In many respects this also comes back to the lack of support for this Awards evening, due to the IOG and Pitchcare being unable to find 'common ground' we would expect (not unreasonably) some financial return for publishing this type of event.
Dave.
I don't think the criticism was veiled.
The ongoing pram throwing from BOTH sides has been
replaced with a denial of each others existence and perpetuates the problems BOTH organisations are claiming to be attempting to resolve.
I know at this stage I am banging my head against a brick wall in suggesting PC and the IOG get together, but in my humble opinion PC could have run an article free of charge publicising the winners of the awards.....and there is the irony.
The plush surroundings, professional presentation and fanfare music made for an exciting evening especially for the winners. But the fact that they had won being reported on this site would have gauranteed them far more deserved recognition than they will get through the IOG.
ps . Well done Hampton School for beating Hurlingham and The All England Club to the Employer of The Year Award.
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
19 Oct 2009 by Dave
Hi Peter,
I hope that you don’t think that the criticism is deserved?
We are entirely about singing the praises of Groundsmen and Greenkeepers in their daily jobs. We regularly publish winners of Awards, for example( and despite my non-involvement in judging for a few years) we announce the FA Groundsmen of the Year Awards each Autumn.
Apart from the Awards we directly sponsor, in every issue of Pitchcare we also highlight another 30-40 ‘unsung heroes’ plying their trade without much recognition.
If there is an issue here, it is that it’s all a bit one way, we’ve tried to make things work in the past, but it’s impossible to work towards utopia without an agenda. Unfortunately our last meeting in November 2007 with the IOG has yet to yield any proposals.
Perhaps someone can suggest a way that all parties can get together to secure the future of our Industry. Where I’m sat, we are indeed a long way from that point presently.
Having just very recently visited Clive at Hampton i ( and no doubt many others!!!!) can only look on in jealousy at the resources he has.
Congratulations Clive.
Dave
(Quote)
Perhaps someone can suggest a way that all parties can get together to secure the future of our Idustry.
Now! If The IOG are as minded as you then the rest is simple?
MEDIATION
Ian Mac, (Member of The Scottish Mediation Network)
My goodness...what an exceelent proposal Ian Mac :)
"Well" Peter Leroy, It Is a proposal! what's yours? Ian Mac
19 Oct 2009 by Poa7 Last edited 19 Oct 2009
Quote "It is a shame that other industry news reporting channels have carried no information about what was an excellent evening with some very proud guys winning well earned awards."
And when was the last time the IOG promoted a PitchCare event in their press? Just wondering? :)
Quote "It is a shame that other industry news reporting channels have carried no information about what was an excellent evening."
A shame for who exactly?
WANTED:
One branch from Olea europaea
or
Large pair of gloves for collective cranial bashing
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
I had, or have, no intention of slighting anyone Ian Mac..I was simply agreeing that "if" there is a need for mediation then of course it is an excelent suggestion.
Note that I placed the word "if" in inverted comma.
An analogy may be along the lines of if a company, lets' say Royal Dutch Shell, did not agree with the marketing practices of Exxon. Neither side would see a need for mediation.
In the case of Pitchcare and IOG, I do not see why there is a need for mediation as neither is looking to take over the other nor merge at this juncture.
As young David points out, and has done so many times on this topic over the last few years, Pitchcare began and remains a different resource to that of IOG for or to the turf industry in general.
Pitchcare is a privately managed company which is well supported by excellent sponsors and therefore currently has no need to require "members" to pay an access fee to gain pertenant information. The company does of course charge for their excellently presented magazine and product through the online store.
The concept of Pitchcare was and still is to provide "shared" information digitally and encourage the dissemination of turf related information by way of the messages boards and articles, free of charge.
By this simple and yet well organised information source there has been a continued growth in numbers by those wishing to gain or impart such information freely.
In turn, IOG is a fee for service organisation, again well supported by the turf industry commercially. It requires a membership fee to gain specific information held by its database network.
Due to lobbying over a long period of time, IOG has become accepted within the post secondary education system as to be the organisation which provides set turf related courses for the training of future groundsmen.
To me they, Pitchcare and IOG, are two sperate groups both providing a resource.
Pitchare will and does provide access to other groups who will provide further education but does not lay claim to be the ultimate source.
In fact, David has often mentioned that Pitchcare is a digital magazine which uses all methods of digital communications to disseminate knowledge and promote discussion of matters relating to the turf industry.
To me, David and his team have "listened" to the subscribers of Pitchcare and made several attempts to pass on this information to IOG for their further thought and consideration.
Should IOG not wish to take such information "on-board" then it is their prerogative not to do so.
In going back to the analogy, why would Shell be all that interested in Exxons ideas on marketing oil ?
Pitchcare have discussed shared information with IOG. IOG has possibly made a simialr offer. Neither group is all that interested and so there is no deed for mediation.
Mind you, I do see a time when one group could merge with the other. Pitchcare becomes the marketing arm of a newly formed national representative body (or Internationally for that matter) and IOG is the training body of that future group.
Meantime, David has an open mind on any thoughts from IOG. The "door' is open and I imagine it will always remain open to any group whose aims are the support and future of the turf industry as a whole.
Shell does not sell Exxon product, Exxon does not sell Shell product and yet they co-exist within their industry.
For now, Pitchcare can and does make its' own choices as to who or what is mentioned on its website or in its magazine. IOG does the same.
Two groups within the same industry.
As I say, I can forsee a future time when neither will be as they are now.
This is now, not yesterday, nor tomorrow and so both can serve the turf industry in their own way.
Thank you Peter Leroy for your eloquent response and I do take aboard you message. Two groups within the same Industry, maybe? but its not two groups that sell a commodity instead, its two entities with a combined goal. The common ground is not comprehensive to sales related endeavour and both are purposed to the advancement of our Industry. Now, when you take two enterprises that share this progressive ethos! is it not imperative to have both working in tendem. Peter, you mentioned "If" surely this abbreviated conjunction is "absolute" surely this entrenchment of both parties has to be resolved, resolved in order that we all progress with education, better conditions, more respect, Hell, I could go on? DS stated a desire to get all parties together to secure the future, this example of concern "must" be mirrored by all" in order to secure "all" So its not a matter of "If" we need to Mediate, "but" when! Regards to you Peter Leroy. Ian Mac.
Well my post had the desired effect of stimulating disccussion about a prickly subject.
However the purpose of the post was not to merely cause a kerfuffle but to make the point therir are certain events that should be recognised and promoted by all organisations regardless of their own agendas.
The more people who know about the skills and successes achieved in our poorly publicised industry the better for EVERYONE.
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
Horticulture Week have run a story on their website, they were represented on the night by a couple of people. Perhaps, as the start of the subject was referring to the lack of publicity for the event, the main reason was that given the IOG publish written rather than web based articles for 99.9% of the time, they didnt want too many reporting on their event before they got chance? I could be wrong but if published by everyone else before the next IOG magazine is out, then people may not bother reading about it as they will have already seen it here, there and everywhere already?
20 Oct 2009 by Peter Leroy Last edited 20 Oct 2009
Mediation, a form of dispute resolution.
We have no dispute in our beliefs for the future of the industry. Perhaps it is more how the future is attained.
As Dorothy Neddermeyer PhD has written in one of her texts "Timing is everything is a common belief and is a major aspect of the Law of Attraction and Abundance."
The expectation of such a desired future can, and often does, create a certain degree of frustration. It is that frustration that I see happening with the subscribers and membership of both groups, IOG/Pitchcare, here.
I agree, Ian Mac, that Davids (Pitchcare) desire to get all parties together to secure the future is admirable and possible. I also agree in your comment on "when"
If there was dispute, and now we agree, then mediation has been seen in full action. Issue resolved.
Moving along or actually back to Clive and Leeboy's opening comments, as we may be heading away from the original topic of this thread, this modern means of communication allows for one group to be "scooped" very easily by another.
The results of awards night presentation could have been placed in the public domain as it occured, which would have taken the "gloss" of revealing to the world the result, away from the organisers who, as Leeboy points out, uses predominantly written rather than web based journalism.
IOG chose to perhaps limit coverage of the night as they felt that it was their night and so entitled to reveal the entire story in their own magazine ?
The editors of Pitchcare magazine often probably find themselves in a similar quandry.
Does one publish an entire article online ergo, free of charge, or does one offer mere snippets as encouragement to purchase the magazine and read the full story ?
A difficult commercial decision facing editors of both IOG and Pitchcare.
Horticulture Week and Pitchcare editorial staff chose one way, IOG chose another.
That is my understanding of the situation. The internet "scooped" the written form.
A problem yet to be resolved by other publishers, New Ltd etc.
As a P.S.
I most definitely support Peters comment "The more people who know about the skills and successes achieved in our poorly publicised industry the better for EVERYONE"
Hi Peter Leroy, as with The Law of Attraction your message demonstrates an abundance of positive written energy. Sir, you have a role to play in securing our profession, play it! Best Respect, Ian Mac.
"The time has come the walrus said for us to speak of many things, of ships and strings and ceiling wax and cabbages and kings." Lewis Carrol.
With an open heart and mind I have opened a thread for such a purpose.
Kindest Regards, Peter Leroy
20 Oct 2009 by Barry Pace Last edited 20 Oct 2009
Purleeeese.......(edited cos was a bit harsh) can we keep it simple and easier on the eyes and brain pls..
Basic facts are:
News is news... we want to be informed of it..
The awards are the IOGs baby, its their night, swansong whatever, whoever prints a report on it isnt going to take away the fact its the IOGs.... big up the IOG wherever its printed/posted.
You cant just pop along and write a report or make something up on snippets gleaned, Hort Week was obviously invited although I thought their piece didnt really do the 'events' status justice
It is clear that the opportunity for publicity and puffing of industry feathers here has been missed by IOG for whatever reason, egos, fear, whatever..
Does Pitchcare need to offer the hand and pen of peace?? well thats up to Mr S and the others to decide, it is a business after all and they must chose the best route forward for Pitchcare PLC long and short term.....
Do we hope that someone from IOG reads this and thinks ''hhhmmmmm'' of course they will but will it be acted on....
Enough from me, what do I know anyway...
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
20 Oct 2009 by Poa7 Last edited 20 Oct 2009
Don't see what all the fuss is about. Let things stay as they are I say. Pitchcare do your thing and IOG do your thing.
It's the guy's on the ground who win with two great resources. Why reduce this to one?
There is no difference, Pitchcare make money and are a business, and don't be fooled, so are the IOG.
They also make money, employ staff and spend money in exactly the same way. Yet for some reason everyone thinks the IOG do it all for nothing? What about all the short courses, the membership fee's, the sponsorship deals?
And yes, I do appreciate that the IOG fund things sometimes. But how much is made during Saltex Week for example? Where does this go? Is there a breakdown, can we contact their accountants? Just how much of their money is salaried?
21 Oct 2009 by petermarkcraig Last edited 21 Oct 2009
Publishing the results is one thing, but the very existence of a major event such as the awards evening should at least have been mentioned on here prior to the event happening.
If the IOG are childishly refusing to acknowledge the importance of Pitchcare, surely Pitchcare should be "the grown up" and acknowledge the importance of the IOG thus taking the moral high ground.
Just my opiion of course.
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
Yeah well done IOG.
Was about to do a cricket intermediate course and they cancel as there was only four delegates doing it.
The course isn't cheap 100 quid for member double for a non-member.
I like there courses i did a couple a few years ago and found them informative and a good way of meeting fellow groundsman that share the same passion in our industry, but i'm slightly p----d off they have cancelled.
I even managed to get my employers to pay for it well half, i used to be a member and was thinking about re-joining but not now, especially after this and with them giving an award to Bletchley Cricket club, dreadful wicket and dump, though we hammered them!.
Villager,
should have done the courses at Aylesbury a couple of weeks ago, although they were also poorly attended I believe.
What award did Bletchley get? West Indies played there in the 80's with Joel Garner etc. fancy it?
Vic.
21 Oct 2009 by pacman75cricket
shame you didn't come to aylesbury villager there was only 4 of us on the course so a little surprised yours cancelled & ours wasn't.
Also you could have discussed how lovely Bletchley is with their groundsman. Think he was up for an award as volunteer groundman,
21 Oct 2009 by Mal
I had a good report back from my lad that attended the course though his only complaint was that the refreshment and lunch arrangements were less that satisfactory.
Geography is everywhere
The tennis course myself and Graeme Kimpton run every year was cancelled due to lack of numbers. Not sure what that's got to do with the price of fish mind you.
Of course the grass looks good. The sun is shining.
Vic it's now with regret that i didnt and of course aylesbury is on my doorstep!. I dont know why they would cancel with 4 delegates though?. money wasted?, especially if Mal is saying the food was sub standard!, you'd think they'd grabbed the cash.
Bletchley was awful however got reported by Cherwell league division one umpires was underprepared, found it difficult to know which wicket we were playing on!, do you think they ( IOG) needed to give an award to anyone that they popped down from HQ MK and gave them it?.
Either way how about a day out at uxbridge?, Vic can cook us a fry up, give us a bowling machine/video anaysis then give us an insight off how to produce pitches that last 5 days? Runs and wickets old coach!
22 Oct 2009 by Mike Last edited 22 Oct 2009
Well, I had never really dealt with the iog before this weekend, although I have been a member for a number of years. I have been working on getting more industry support in my area for going on for 5 years now. An area advisor contacted me a little while ago, and between the pair of us, we held the first ever groundsman training day in my area this past weekend, with 25 delegates - a huge success! Through my dealings with the iog, as with pitchcare, I have nothing but praise.
Mike
Over the years the IOG have done a good job as one of few organisations supporting the industry. Problem is, they have been overtaken by more forward thinking individuals and companies who use current up to date methods of communication.
People want instant access to information and support with their problems, Pitchcare for one would be my first visit.
Have to be careful Villager, as I know a lot of people at Bletchley, remember they played at Campbell Pk before returning to Manor Fields, but it does seem a strange one.
Always welcome mate. Funnily enough did a video analysis for a certain CCCC player this season but it didn't help him being sawn off in every other game, Cherwell umpires get no better.
In my dealings with both groups i've found the iog very helpfull especially at saltex this year with the launch of the school grounds professional association . However pitchcare asked if they could send someone i welcomed it but no one appeared. They both have good and bad points and nobody is perfect lets not focus on the negatives but celebrate the positives. WD
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
I wonder how many "Unsung Heroes" and "Volunteer Groundsmen" are nominated for awards each year. There are thousands to choose from.
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