Message Board - Bowls: Bowling green problem
16 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
Well, I guess I must be doing a reasonable job on our footy pitch since I've been asked to take a look at a bowling green!! 
The bowling green in question is surrounded by trees so shade must be a consideration. I don't know the history of the green and the greenkeeper wasn't there when I turned up.
The surface in the affected area is very wet and a little slimy. The underlying soil is dry and there appears to be a layering problem. There's a layer of black with a rust coloured "vein" running through it. I don't believe it to be black layer as there's no smell.
Also, sand particles were visible at the top and bottom of the core but not the middle suggesting there's been a break in topdressing. I do not know if compatible materials have been used. I came across a thread by 'bath' about the use of marl on bowling greens. I dunno if this is what it is.
I was going to post a picture off the core but, unfortunately, I had a little accident with it. 
Looking in the drain manhole there was barely a trickle of water when a reasonable flow would have been expected.
I'll try and get some more info and pics but if anyone has any ideas from what little I've been able to tell you I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.
From the posh end of the room!!
16 Nov 2009 by Grassman2011
Alladin, you do not mention depth of thatch. Wet on top and dry underneath suggests to me, that with info you have supplied, thatch could be a real problem. It holds water rather than letting it through.
16 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
To be honest, bath, this is an area where I struggle. I don't suppose I should but I do. However, to my untrained eye I don't think it's particularly bad.
All being well I'll take a few photos tomorrow and post them. A picture is worth a thousand words, apparently!!!
From the posh end of the room!!
16 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
Just as a matter of interest one of the guys there was telling me about a machine they'd had on a few years ago. From his description it sounded like a Gwazea (sp?).
From the posh end of the room!!
16 Nov 2009 by Grassman2011
It could have been a Robin Dagger if it was a few years ago, or Terrain airation perhaps. But you mention a few years ago. How often is it getting aerated now and with what ?
16 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
I'm afraid the frequency of aeration is, as yet, unknown to me. As I said the Greenkeeper wasn't there when I turned up but since I turned up on spec I suppose that's my own fault.
I believe they have a pedestrian aerator of some description and there were aeration holes visible in the green. I would have expected them to be more frequent, however.
From the posh end of the room!!
17 Nov 2009 by chrismitchell
Alladin, the rust coloured vein will be gleying. This is caused by the soil having been saturated for long periods and minerals deposited causing the vein. It is a good indication of what has been going on in the past regarding drainage. It also indicates anerobic conditions, ie poor aeration.
Something to consider is how far do the roots of the trees go under the green. If the trees are of considerable size there is every chance that roots are one of your problems. That along with shading and lack of aeration will be major factors in the poor state of the green.
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
17 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
Chris and bath, thank you both for your responses.
I must confess that I hadn't thought about the tree roots. I got a bit more info today, as well as some pics.
Having previously said that I didn't think it was Black Layer I have now changed my mind. The core I took yesterday had no smell to speak of but today's had a discernible rotten egg smell though not particularly strong. The Greenkeeper was spraying Blockade whilst I was there.
I am of the opinion, though, that his problems are not confined to Black Layer. Something that Chris appears to confirm.
I don't think, bath, that thatch is a major problem.
Here's a pic of the green and surrounds:
From the posh end of the room!!
17 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
Regarding aeration, it appears the greenkeeper has a pedestrian aerator (as I said previously) but with a fixed tine depth. i.e. he must always aerate/hollow tine to the same depth since this, it seems, cannot be altered. So I was told anyway, I haven't looked at the machine. Apparently they got it off a farmer.
From the posh end of the room!!
17 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
Here's some pics of the core I took:
From the posh end of the room!!
17 Nov 2009 by Aladdin Last edited 17 Nov 2009
A closer view. I was lucky to get this in focus (sort of), it's not easy to stay steady crouched on your haunches!!
From the posh end of the room!!
17 Nov 2009 by has 2 mow
Hi Aladdin
It may be worth seeing if that any application records on products applied to the green exists , or failing that a request from the treasurer on products purchased over the past two years . This may give you some insight on what has been applied to the green.
As for the slimy area could this be squidge ( black algae ) ? .
It is very difficult to tell from a photo , if you have thatch but the top 40 mm according to the width of your sampler does look different . ?
Mark
17 Nov 2009 by Grassman2011
I am with you has 2 mow. Difficult to see from the photo, but top of core sample and next top that is pushing the core up the sampler certainly looks different.
Are you saying Alladin that thatch is not a major problem or that the green in question does not have any ? Would be unusual if the latter was the case.
17 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
Hmm, I think I can see where you guys are coming from.
I'm not saying there's no thatch but, in my very amateur opinion, I don't think it's a major problem. I could very easily be proved wrong in this.
As far as the core sample is concerned, looking at it in "real life" so to speak, there are sand particles at the top and bottom but none in the middle. As though there was a period where no topdressing was undertaken.
From the posh end of the room!!
17 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
Just remembered!!
The current Greenkeeper said he'd been doing the job for 3 years. Previously it was looked after by a couple of golf fellows*, one of whom turned up in the morning and cut the greens and one of whom turned up in the evening and cut the greens. Nothing else from what I'm told.
*Unfortunately I made the assumption that these were golf Greenkeepers. I didn't ask so it may not necessarily be the case.
From the posh end of the room!!
17 Nov 2009 by Barry Pace
Hi Aladdin, have seen on both bowls and golf evidence of a period when a few 'consultants and experts' were specifying STR8 fensoil dressings!!!! bout 20 plus years ago mind but still evident now I have no problems at all with this soil BUT only when it is about 25% with a good sport sand............ looks much like the Allan Sands affect of the pure sand brigades of days gone by where unfortunately little and often wasn't the amount and sport sand didnt always turn up lol...... The 'rusty' line is possibly ferrous oxide, nice and toxic to roots, built up by iron applications settling down over an aeration pan which prevents this from disappating through the profile further... or basically gleying as per Chris..
Dont know if a Gwazae been on it, Keith Kensett has done a couple I think, but unless the holes are filled on a 'snotty' they will close very quickly at the surface, especially if no other aeration being done or its just too wet and poorly timed aeration...
It all sounds anaerobic to me, holes, holes and more holes of varied depth to prevent panning is prescribed by the PC Collective methinks....
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
18 Nov 2009 by chrismitchell
All the evidence points to lack of aeration and incompatable dressings. As Barry says, holes and more holes. Is it possible to get it vertidrained at some point when the conditions are right? Spiked once a fortnight, again when conditions allow. If you have a sample of the dressing being used, get it analysed.
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
18 Nov 2009 by Aladdin Last edited 18 Nov 2009
Thanks for the responses, guys.
This is pretty much what I was thinking. From what the guys at the bowling club have said it sounds like they've had this and that done at various points without any clear idea of what they're trying to achieve.
I was told that someone (a contractor from what was said) did some work on it and turned it into a pudding. That was a few years ago if I understood correctly.
Is it possible to get it vertidrained? Presumably. Depends on the bowling club committee I suppose.
One thing I neglected to mention previously is that the Greenkeeper applies Lawn Sand twice a year to control moss. Lawn Sand in the spring and Lawn Sand Plus in the autumn. My feeling is that this is treating the symptom rather than the cause.
I also suspected incompatible top dressing materials. I was told not but.........................
GLEYING
I'd never heard of this (no reason why I should really) but I typed it into the Search box and came up blank. What sort of a site is this?? 
Google came to the rescue. I found this:
http://www.sassa.org.uk/index.php/Tutorial:Soil_Gleying
I often wish now that I'd paid more attention in my school biology and chemistry lessons!!!
Back to the bowls club and I have set a few wheels in motion to try and help them out. I'll see what I can do about a soil analysis.
From the posh end of the room!!
18 Nov 2009 by treacle 1
lads,lads,lads. Lets get back to basics here! it's prety obvious that the main problem seems to be in the top few centermeters !(sorry i said lets get back to basics didnt i) INCHES so lets start by getting some air in to it, even if that means using a bloody digging fork, why go and risk more surface compaction by driving over the green with a tractor and "vertidrain" after all you cant decompact soil thats that wet, can you?
18 Nov 2009 by Barry Pace
Treacle, I agree and have to disagree, without being there we are all summising, the problem may well be showing in the top as it is obviously anaerobic but from what is described and what I have seen before in very similar cases it is likley that the root (no pun intended) of this problem will lie in the 150-250mm or 6'' to 10'' old money depth, you can bash the top around all you like but if its compacted beneath all you are doing is making the top softer to hold more water quicker and excasperate the anaerobic conditions.... However conditions are everything, a well timed vertidrain with a bit of help from the man upstairs with the weather is what is actually needed, to open the soil profile and allow air and water movement... but I agree a kneejerk jump on it when its not fit will probably create more lower compaction than it solves.
Barry
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
19 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
The more I discover about this club the more frustrating it becomes. Especially when you get conflicting tales. I know, you've all been there!!
However, I went down yesterday morning (Wed) after some very heavy rain and the place was absolutely flooded. Looking in the inspection manhole, there was barely a trickle despite the fact that the greens were sodden.
It seems that the drainage installation was a DIY job and is clearly woefully inadequate. This must be their priority.
A case of back to basics as Mr. Treacle says.
It actually reminds me of our football club a few years ago. Everyone looks at things in the short term.
From the posh end of the room!!
19 Nov 2009 by has 2 mow
Hi Aladdin
Reference the verti drain, if you do plan to get it done ensure you are on sight( as i was not ) . Even tho i thought the ground was good for the job and the right machine as well , it turned out not to be . And made as many problems as it cured . ( see photo )
Mark
19 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
has 2 mow,
I think you misunderstand. I don't plan to do anything. I was asked to take a look at the green and offered what advice I was able. What the bowling club do or don't do is up to them.
By the way, am I right in thinking that backfill material for sportsturf drainage should be angular?
From the posh end of the room!!
19 Nov 2009 by Grassman2011
I believe it should be circular, but then an odd straight edge will not hurt. Round particles will not lock together, allowing moisture past. Angular i believe tends to lock together preventing moisture passing. Totally round can be unstable, think of a bag of marbles, so some straight edges are very useful. Not very scientific, but i believe it is something like that.
20 Nov 2009 by chrismitchell Last edited 20 Nov 2009
Washed marine backfill stone. It is rounded unlike land dug stone which is angular and very soon locks together with any silt that migrates into it and becomes waterproof.. It is the same as sand. Angular for making mortar and rounded for drainage and dressings. Thus people that suggest using sharp sand on lawns for dressing are giving very bad advice. Sharp sand is used for it's binding properties in floor screed
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
20 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
Thanks bath. That makes sense.
From the posh end of the room!!
20 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
Thanks Chris. Was typing my reply to bath when you posted.
From the posh end of the room!!
27 Nov 2009 by Aladdin
Just did a water repellency test on the core I took.
Mostly the water droplet soaked in within a reasonable time apart from from 1" depth. Here it took 10 minutes to soak in.
As has been said I strongly suspect incompatible top dressing material but I've been told not.
From the posh end of the room!!
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