Hi all
About a year ago i posted a text on here giving out about cutbacks amongst other things and along with others it has taken me several months to take on board the serious recession that we have to face....
i have been part of a club that over the past 3 years has started to eat it self within and is very sad as i have worked so hard to bring so many professional standards to the club that was never there before.
My staff have been my rock through the years and have been so proud to have been involved in the training of these guys who have worked so tirelessly for me through the years where today with the mess my country is now in i have had to let all my staff go from Jan 1. this will mean that Jan 09 i had 9 staff to Jan 10 having 2.
It breaks my heart seeing our industry turn this way and i am just wondering has anyone had to also make such drastic measures.
Brian
everything happens for a reason
Brian
We have met just once but I was so impressed by your enthusiasm and pride about the course you had built and manage. You are typical of the many great people in this industry who have had to bare the brunt of decisions made by others. Hopefully you will be able to re-employ the guys in Spring, but how do you replace motivation, pride and trust?
Any time you want a chat give me a ring. 00447900692052.
Best regards
Andy Turnbull
Hi Brian,
I am sorry to read about the problems you have at the club. I watched your original thread with a great deal of sympathy, many of us have also suffered in financial matters but unlike your staff, most have managed to cling onto our jobs.
This economic downturn has been very helpful for a number of employers, who are able to reduce staff whilst still making money. Staff are like items of furniture these days, once they have served their purpose, they are discarded or changed without the blink of an eye.
Gone are the days of my father, who worked for the same family all of his life and that same family now support him through ill health some 15 years after retirement.
This whole situation is why I find it frustrating when people come on here claiming for better working conditions, pay, representation etc. We are what we are, furniture.
I hope your staff are able to find alternative employment but how does your club continue with such a minimal staff?
Vic.
Brian it's a very tough picture we all face in these difficult times and my heart goes out to you having to give the bad news but also to the families of your ex colleagues who now face a bleak Christmas with no work prospects.
When the news of the job cuts at Corus in Redcar came on the news it immediately signalled the potential collapse of a community just as the steelworks closing in Corby in the seventies ravaged the town- unfortunately in our industry we are not exempt either.
I'm afraid Vic is right when he talks of employees being expendable, hopefully Andrew's sentiments about the Spring may come around, but the sooner employers choose to value the skill and experience of those they dispose of the better it will be in our industry.
In business we all have to make a profit to exist, as Pitchcare advocates let's stick together and help each other out as best we can through these trying times. If you need any support or a chat contact me any time Brian 00447780 580379, Regards David
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
5 Dec 2009 by Leeboy
Nothing new in football unfortunately, as we have seen over the years with clubs having to cut back after being relegated etc.
Our former Chief Exec reminisced one day that he remembered laughing and joking with staff on the way down to Wembley for the play off final in 1999 on the staff coach, knowing at the back of his mind that if we were to lose that game half the staff would have lost their jobs the next day. Fortunately we won, but as I say this has been going on in football for years and in some ways golf has been lucky- if you an call it that-that it is only just suffering the effects recently on the scale it is.
5 Dec 2009 by Mal Last edited 5 Dec 2009
My experiance is that it is very easy for employers to make the desicion to downsize a work force but even when times get better it can be twice as, if not more, a difficult argument to get the staff back.
Geography is everywhere
Should not be a problem when members find the grass is 25mm+ on the greens because there are not enough hours in the day to keep all the grass mown. Fairways that you cant find your ball in. How any club/course can expect any kind of quality with a staff of two god only knows. Has the club lost a lot of members glenkeeran ? Sounds as if they might soon.
5 Dec 2009 by glenkeeran Last edited 5 Dec 2009
Hi all!
Thanks for all the kind words as yesterday was not a nice day. Andy it has been to long, call up very soon as we must catch up...
The background to the lay-off's is that through a levy and the recession we have lost about 200 members which has crippled the running of the club. I have had to make a 12 emergency visible budget and make a presentation to our management committee to ensure the survival of the club which has produced some radical changes.
Thankfully for the summer months i will be able to hire 3 temporary staff but this will only be for a maximum of 6 months.
Brian
everything happens for a reason
not a nice situation Brian, this is something i have yet to face in my experiences and hope i dont have to.
wish you ( and your staff) all the best
I, too, read your original thread with interest Brian as I have been a victim of recessionary cutbacks myself. It seems you care about your staff and so laying them off can't have been easy.
It is possible to run a golf course with only 1 or 2 staff Bath. It is very common down here in the 'country' courses. What has to alter to allow that to happen is the level of expectation of the members with regard to the presentation of the course.
Greens will always get mowen. Tees less often, Fairways etc. ...
Rough might get topped rather than groomed.
Paths/steps may show weeds, bunkers need to be raked by players.
The ''level of expectation'' is the deciding factor in my experience.
GOGGA
Good luck Brian,
I believe you have another budget looming so hope this does not imact on you further.
6 Dec 2009 by EHU Mission Control
Brain sorry to here about your situation,
May I ask the question as the club made any reduction in other areas of the club, administration, bar staff , catering plush surroundings or club house painting or refurbishment being mainly secondary in my eyes to the essentials that of the quality of the course.
Poor course = less members and bad reputation.
Obviously you are a thorough and proud professional and will endeavour to ensure this does not happen.
Also who made the decision to release the staff some one living above the station I would say.....(officer worker!)
What do the members think about the situation and are they aware of the results of the clubs action not only to standards, but moral
Best of luck
Go public with the local press and see what happens
( inominously )
The future is bright, the future is EHU !
6 Dec 2009 by vid
9 staff to 2 staff increasing to 5 maximum and the club has aready lost 200 members. From my armchair miles and miles away Brian it looks like your comittee is hell bent on losing another 200 and I bet this time round they'll blame you directly and probably tell you you will have to manage on even less!! You are not alone - a local club here is going ahead with improving its catering facilities at quite some expense and the course has been told to make savings!! - this will result in a loss of facility to the members. At the rate of @ 1 days profit from a function = 2 memberships they will have to be very careful not ending up making a loss, instead of increasing profit
Brian,
i can only pick up on the information
and make assuptions, but still here goes.
I presume that the bankers on the committee came up with the levy on membership, completly wrong way, you give free membership to new members, taster sessions, anything to get membership up.
What steps did you take last year to reduce costs,grounds expenditure, and who reviewed them.
With the 12 steps in budget, i again presume that they were your steps, and that you said that they will safeguard the clubs future, and the pressure to make them work is down to you.
I feel it is really important to look to the future and find out what is expected from you now, and how it is measured.
You might feel a bit deflated at the moment but now is the time to rise to the challenge.
hard work and the good luck might follow.
Hi Brian,
I am very sorry to hear of your current situation. I think there were many who new it was just a matter of time before the Celtic bubble would burst, But no one thought it would be this bad!
I know you are a true professional and will work your way through these terrible times, but in the meantime, if the decisions have been yours in terms of where cuts should be made. Have you considered every other possible avenue before you reduce your staff numbers so low.
Such as:
- Flexible hours, reduced hours, pay cuts.
- Change of management practices, type of fertiliser, limited or no pesticides.
- Cutting regimes, no semi-rough, reduce tees and green surrounds.
These are just a few suggestions. I started changing my management practices 3 years ago. since my owners made staff cuts and severely pulled in the proverbial purse strings. However, I have been my own worst enemy as I am told every year the course is in better condition than the previous year.
As you may know, I spent a number of years as a turf-grass advisor. I would be happy to help in any way I can either by phone or email. No catch or fee and who knows, maybe another ear can sometimes relieve the burden.
Good luck in whatever course of action you decide to take.
Kind regards
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
I refer to the answers of both Higgins and Ken. I have been told that my machinery repair and service, along with the grounds repair and maintenance budget, no mention of pay cuts or staff reduction in hours, has to be reduced by more than 25%, around £4000.
I asked for a meeting with the boss as to how this was going to be achieved. The answer, i have to decide whether any expenditure is absolutely necessary,and that i ought to be able to save at least £1500 to £2000 anyway.
When it was mentioned that this was a cricket club that we are managing, i was told that that was a glib remark !!.
How are we supposed to manage ? Just grass cutters are we, i wish it was as simple as that.
My heart goes out to you Brian.
with all respect, why should we in the sports turf industry be exempt from any economic downturn?
Yes its tough on all involved, but it is also tough for lots of others who are going through it up and down the Uk
Ultimatley, we are in a customer based industry, if the customers arent prepared to spend the money, then what is to be expected???
I agree Neil. However, i reckon i run a tight ship as it is. I ask for help and basically get none.
In Brians case, how is he ever going to manage with the staff cuts that he has had to endure ? Whats proffesional about the standards he will now achieve.
Its like trying to polish the car without any polish.
no matter how tight a ship you run, or how frugal you are with the budget it is never enough bath, thats the trouble.
Clubs will spend ££££££ on the bar, catering, new seats, kit, players etc, but ask for money for the ground ( which is the reason they are there!!!) and suddenly they grow short arms and very long pockets!!
7 Dec 2009 by SOS
Hi All
Like any business our part of the inferstructure is usually only one part of many departments of which serve a customer based industry. Like all private clubs that are run by members for members being it the board, committee driven etc it also comes down to what expertise these guys have in running a business. Some clubs have strong sectretaries and a good business plan that is in place but more than not there are too many clubs being run by novices on short term fixes.
Staff cut backs is the quickest way to save money followed by capital expenditure within our domain and is an easy target for a quick fix for clubs to pull their purse strings in on.
However, this approach is very short sited as the courses will suffer, standands will drop and when we come out of this recession how are many of these clubs going to attract new members and societies? Turf management is no different than any other industry being that it takes years to go forward but takes 5 times the amount of work and expense to bring something back to its former glory.
The only thing that really upsets me is we are told to work smarter and not harder, go on all these training courses look after large bugets only to be dumped as required when required by our employers at will.
Our involvement within the club should cover more than just our departments, and maybe the answer is to be more proactive in the business at higher levels in planning, forecasting managing the club finiancially after all we are not just grass cutters are we?..............
Brian good luck to you and your team for the future.
Hi all
Unfortunatly all the cuts had to be made by myself and every other options have be exausted.
- (short time) i couldnt get enough savings
To be blunt i needed to make 64% of a saving.....
Both myself and my assistant took a large wage cut and i have introduced annualised hours for us both to increase productivity during the active growing months.
This will also include the 3 staff when they return for the summer as an 9 hour day will have to be achived.
To answer the question regarding the clubhouse, it has also been closed down just leaving 3 staff for the winter.. myself, my assistant and the accounts lady.
This is a emergency situation which involved drastic action where i had to make some stomack turning decissions which i hope all of you good people never have to endure..
Again Thanks so much fo your support.
Brian
everything happens for a reason
7 Dec 2009 by vid Last edited 7 Dec 2009
Again and as before Brian this sounds very much like the bank talking instead of a businessman. I am a member of a club where the bank has often told the directors to increase the membership fee and drinks prices and reduce costs to make ends meet. Every single time they do so the membership income goes down and it takes restoration of common sense and the most basic of business minds to restore the balance again. Now they are approaching being in the black as for the most part the members feel they are well served.
Shutting down the course and clubhouse like this sounds extreme and probably stupid, are all the members being offered an equivalent cut in their membership fees, because if they are not an awful lot will be considering whether they should stay as they are no longer getting the same value for their money. Its a simple point but it is certainly how I would feel and I would have to have a lot of loyalty to the club not to feel angry and let down as a member.
I wish you good luck for the future Brian and I hope their emergency plan works to get to a point where people start investing in their leisure again!!
I think one of the problem's Brian's club faces is that there are too many clubs serving Dublin and the surrounding suburb's!
If I recall Brian, there are 5 golf club's in the Donabate area where you are situated, which is a small peninsular? And in a normal down turn, membership numbers would drop, but the terrible recession you are currently facing...... Well, I am not surprised.
I had one of my past greenkeepers pop in today to say he had been laid off and did I know of in greenkeeper jobs going. I managed to get him work in the hotel to tie him over until things improve. The trouble is that he is half way through doing hid level III, has recently booked his PA spraying and chainsaw courses and has been told he has to be in greenkeeping employment to qualify for the later two courses. The sad thing is, a year ago he quit in order to go to Australia for the summer. I told him at that time he may struggle to get work in green keeping where he returns.
Good luck Brian, my thoughts go with you.
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
7 Dec 2009 by turfjack Last edited 7 Dec 2009
Brian
I can sympathise with you also. As you know the US is ahead of the rest of the world with the recession (since we started it...) but we're starting to come out of it. The area I'm in is largely agricultural so I didn't really see much of what was going on in the more industrialised areas except for there seeming to be more houses on the market and residuals dropping a little (but luckily not collapsing).
Golf clubs started struggling here a few years ago, primarily due to over saturation but the recession really drove a nail into the coffin. Everyone had to cut budgets last year even the big boys were watching their money however in many cases it was pre-emptive so to be ready for any problems that would occur.
I was lucky on a few accounts, one being that since we were such a young club we really didn't any fluf built into the budget so there was really nothing that stood out as on over expense. However I went from a winter crew of 12 to 4 last year and 6 this but with that my winter project list was reduced so the need for the staff reduced also. Secondly our board were proactive and we actually gained membership over the year which really helped. Everyone in all departments did as much as possible to keep our budgets in line and at last check everyone of us was under which helped also. Although the economy looks better for next year, we are still taking the same approach so we are ready to battle any challanges that arise.
As for other clubs, most like I said made cuts with staffing being the main area. It also looked like the clubs with the most overspending were the ones to suffer most. The low to mid end publics and the high end privates were mostly doing ok as people didn't want to spend as much so play cheaper golf at the publics and the high end privates are pretty much immune to a recession.
As a superintendent, I (as well as others) can see where we were making cuts but over from a golfers prespective it was unnoticable. Most of us agreed that we would not create too many problems if this blip is for a few years but much more than that some of the cuts would start showing up more (or expectations will have dropped so it won't be an issue). We also got more creative, with us talking/meeting with each other more to get more ideas to help ourselves.
As Ken said we all knew the Celtic Tiger would go away but I think it was just more noticable in Ireland due to how quick the growth occured in the first place but there was an equal amount of luxury spending here also as when times are good people don't think about the potential for the bad.
I hope membership picks up and everything works out for you after you battle through this rough patch and you will come out stronger as a result, I know it made me a better superintendent.
As the others have said if you want someone to vent to or whatever send me a pm.
Alan
Alan FitzGerald, LedgeRock Golf Club
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