Like some I suspect because of the weather, I have not been able to aerate yet. When do you guys think the last date it is ok to aerate your square?
I want to get at least 2 aerations in but cant see conditions being fit for a while yet.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
7 Dec 2009 by Mal
I have spiked up till the end of January without any problems before Barry but it will be depent on the clay fraction in your square and how easily you are able to get the hole to close not just at the top of the hole but for the depth too. if your square drys quickly then you will find it more difficult to achieve this in the time frame you have.
Geography is everywhere
7 Dec 2009 by vid
Depends on the equipment Barry. A vertical action machine like the Groundsman or GA30 fitted with thinner solid tines can be used almost up to the start of preseason rolling,but most people will stop towards the end of January. Drum spikers, slitters and vertical action spikers fitted with thicker tines should not really be used past early to mid January as the hole takes much longer to close up - in the case of the drum spiker this is because the tine does not enter and leave the soil cleanly, and the slitter (especially if it smears) can cause very serious cracking as the surface dries, as the slit surfaces can form a distinct vertical layer that will not easily bind back together
Vid
I am hiring the county trailer groundsman which I thiink has thin solids.
Last year I used my old Patterson about 3 times but I am nervous about using it as it did heave a few times when the conditions were not perfect.
I would not go near a slitter personally anyway.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
7 Dec 2009 by vid
Answered your own question really Barry - the Groundsman should be fine. As usual though conditions are the most important factor - the profile will be very wet all the way down by now so if the surface is wet dont spike, you will do more harm than good. If the weather means you cannot spike at all its not the end of the world, at the Oval for instance they have a no spiking policy. I personally believe that the added route for air to get in to the soil benefits the whole soil profile and is invaluable in maintaining a problem free healthy soil with roots stretching below the compaction pan caused by the roller. Whether it produces a better playing surface than an unspiked one is still hotly contested and until someone proves it one way or the other should be down to professional choice.
7 Dec 2009 by mario
 |
I know no boundaries.
Well, for what it is worth, I think that it is worthwhile. Prior to me taking over the square, it had not been spiked. Last season the tracks consistently had more pace and bounce. That could have been down to early season weather conditions,tlc and a consistent rolling regime but I think the spiking helped a better root growth to be achieved.
I read the arguments against spiking whiich say it can cause pans at the level of the spiking. But most club tracks probably only have compaction down to a couple of inches due to rolling so in my naive mind, any spiking that goes deeper than that should be a good thing.
Anyway, currently the best thing to do with the square, is nothing!
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Barry,
If the square heaved, check whether the Groundsman machine you are hiring has had turf retainers fitted. If not there is a chance that the Groundsman machine will really knock your surface about, so be prepared to put many pieces back and throw away the ones that will not fit in.
Never known this to hurt the square and after a couple of seasons you will spike cleanly with very little pulling. Well worth the county board investing in the turf retainers.
7 Dec 2009 by mario
You're right Gordon. By the time the pre-season comes along you'll be wondering what all the fuss was about!
I know no boundaries.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Ken. You getting to the big H in January ? its about time. If you are, get and book a bed now while some are still available.
7 Dec 2009 by mario
Not planning to, Gordon. Too many family "big birthdays" around New Year this year!!.............and before you say anything - none of them mine I may add!!
I know no boundaries.
Well you might well have some more birthdays Ken and lets hope that is many. As anybody who knows you will testify, they will never be BIG ONES mate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7 Dec 2009 by jlawrence Last edited 7 Dec 2009
ah, but they might be big numbers Gordon :)
added:
On the subject of aeration. I've managed to spike my squares twice - last time just before the rains came.
I doubt very much whether it'll get done again this side of xmas but you never know.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Bath
It was my Patterson that I had the heaving problem with not a Groundsman.But I will ask about the turf retainers, not much point paying 50 quid if I am going to have thesame problem, might as well use my Patterson in that case.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
I haven`t managed to get mine spiked once yet. No one has aound here (south coast) as far as i know. Have a drum type but not going to use it in favour of the county vertical machine.If i can't get it done by the end of the first week in January i will use smaller tines. If not by end of jan, i won't at all. Slit November last year and had problems closing them up, mainly as i had a poor pre-season roll due to wet. Have a problem with poor root depth (Less than 2") that needs sorting out though.
The reason for your heave Barry is either a soil break or poor rooting. Groundsman or Pattison, both will find a problem, Groundsman will, with regular use help mend it.
7 Dec 2009 by mario
If the weather prevents me from spiking it will be the third year in sucession.
I had a P.Q.S performed at the end of July this year which identified a root depth of 240 mm.
That being said, although there was a significant DEPTH of root, I would counter that by saying that the density of root was a lot less than the square I was taking samples from during a P.Q.S. course held at Middleton Cricket Club which had been subjected to numerous spikings.
So to quote the old adage - it isn't always the length which you should worry about!
"Never mind the quality, feel the width" as the old comedy programme was titled!!
Have I got good root depth because of heavy frosts up here?
Discuss!!
I know no boundaries.
Actually Bath
I think some of it was due to spiking at the wrong time, i'e when we had had heavy frosts and I thought because the top looked ok, it was ok but in fact the ground was still frozen after about inch/inch and half down.
But I bow to your knowledge obviously. I am surprised though that you say the vertical spiker is as likely to heave as the drum spiker.
Mario, 240mm! I can only dream of that ( God Im getting a sad old git)
Maybe you re right about the heavy frosts, there has to be some advantage of living up there matey!
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
It will seperate at soil or root breaks rather than heave Barry, but i promise you a year or two down the line, the root mass you create by spiking will hold the breaks together. Nothing wrong with the machine mate, considered to be one of the best, just exposes problems in cricket squares before fixing them.
I need the depth because during wicket prep i am getting the surface drying out and cracking but still soaking at 2" (No roots to take the water away). I don't even have the option of using flat sheets as a method of helping as I have games 5-6 days a week.
Get spiking then Andy, vertically!!
I will if and when it dries out enough!
Barry bath's right in recommending the turf retainers, the difference with the Pattison is that it might just tear up healthy turf due to its heave included in the action (not a clean down then back up movement like the Groundsman) which is why many don't recommend it in the first place. The Groundsman only tends to lift when there's an inherent weakness in the profile, not a weakness in the machine's methodology.
Andy you seriously need to address the shallowness of those roots, has it always been so? Sounds as if you either have a very light medium or your rolling regime may need addressing? Hope you manage to get that aeration in before it's too close to the 2010 season.
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
Nicely put loamy, thankyou.
talking aeraion has anyone else complete survey for cranfield as doing research on aeration.
https://www.survey.cranfield.ac.uk/aeration
7 Dec 2009 by Collie
I finally got the groundsman on the square yesterday. The square was quite soft but not too wet. I was wondering what are the hazards of spiking when its too wet. Is it the tracks the machine leaves or something a lot less obvious.
Collie
Think you risk compacting the ground more by taking the machine on the square left by the tracks.
Also by carrying out activity in wet conditions it may be that when spikes enter ground leaves a smooth hole. Which causes no decompaction & side wall compaction.
& not achieving what you are intending to achieve.
I would explain it as "smearing" of the inside of the hole, not creating lift and "fissuring" (therefore simply compacting the area between the holes) and missing the point of aeration, which is, essentially, providing space and oxygen for roots and driving them deeper
can anyone tell me anything about cluster tines i am thinking about using them on cricket square
pacman - just completed the survey. Do they aim to do some practical research though?
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
8 Dec 2009 by Collie
Brian I used cluster tines when doing my autumn renovations. They did an excellent job for laying little holes for my seed. I'm not sure how much use they would be time of year. I'd stick with the normal or pencil tines for now and use the cluster tines for repairs.
Brian,
Think of solid cluster tines as the sarrol/sorrol roller. Great for keeping the surface open and for creating thousands of seed pots when refurbishing used wickets or ends.
Very useful attachements to have.
One word of warning, cluster heads are designed to work within the top 25mm of the surface. I have witnessed people trying to obtain good depth, only for them to be dissapointed and surprised when the cluster grabs a piece of turf and pulls it out.
thanks collie and bath for useful information
Spiked today with county trailer groundsman, went in about 2 and a half to 3 inches no problem, tyre marks look messy but will recover I suppose. Was going to whack on some winter fertiliser after but have come home for a lie down, I aint as young as I would like!
Good machine though, no turf retainers but worked fine at that depth. Innitally tried full depth but that was heaving a bit.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
11 Dec 2009 by Chris Thornton Last edited 11 Dec 2009
Like a lot of you I have been unable to spike at all since the renovations were finished and I am "desperate" to get on the square with the "Autoturfman" (yes its a drum spiker).
But the constant rain has stopped me. I have not even been able to brush it for over two weeks! Now however a dry spell is forecast but it bl.....y well froze solid last night and the temp's are going to stay low over the weekend.
Spoke with WiddyWoo via Face book and he says to keep off all together during winter but I like the idea of having 4 inch deep holes in the soil because Jack Frost will track down them quickly. I am hoping to get on next week, after Monday, when the temp's are set to rise above freezing and then pray for a heavy frost like the one we got last winter.
Still, in another ten days the daylight will start to lengthen and we can look forward to P S R (Now where did I put that Cranfield thingy?)
Just done the Cranfield survey re Aeration and am wondering on what to spend the £50 Amazon Vouchers, which I Must surely win!!!
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
11 Dec 2009 by mario
Sorry to disappoint, Chris but they promised them to me!
I know no boundaries.
11 Dec 2009 by pacman75cricket
Get in the queue guys
If I told Cranfield that I spiked the square when it was partly frozen they would probably take my name out of the hat.
But, I did do that today!!
Yesterday I got about 1/3 of it done but parts were still a bit wet and I didn't want to rut it and as an East wind was forecast overnight, I decided to wait until today.
Of course the East wind came but with it a fairly heavy frost which left the top 10mm or so frozen. The Auto-turfman went through it OK so i carried on and did it in both directions!
So now I have a square which is freezing fast and deep with about 136,000 holes in it and I couldn't be more pleased.
This is the first time since the renovations in Sept' that it has been spiked but I suppose someone one here is going to give me grief for doing it in these conditions, or maybe not??
Just very pleased that the oncoming Siberian frost will have easy access to the root zone.
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
18 Dec 2009 by pacman75cricket
Just had a thought guys whilst we are all concerned about not having spiked/ not able to spike.
Due to the amount of moisture in the profile should we not panic as much about not spiking as when we get frosts with the amount of water in the soil profile will this not increase the amount of fissuring when the frosts come & soils contract & expand.
Any others thoughts on this.
In my opinion pacman, absolutely correct.
Me too and I know Widdy Woo will agree but I felt I had to finish what I started. I know the frost will be going deep as I write and here in North Lancs coast we don't, usually, get prolonged or deep frosts because of the Gulf Stream. (That's what our teachers told us anyway, 50 years ago Barry)
Someone said today, that we can expect minus 6 ish for a few days so I recon it will be 3 inch down by Sat morning because of the spike holes.
Now for another question re Aeration/ Spiking etc in the Winter.
If the grass has now stopped growing, which it must have in this cold and we have spike holes and fissuring due to deep frosts and the grass doesn't start growing till the soil warms to 9 degrees we will have started P S R by then to close everything up. So, what will we achieve by spiking if the grass doesn't start to grow before P S R in March??
A bit of a convoluted way of asking but I am sure you'll get me drift. And yes maybe I shouldn't have bothered in the first place!!!! And, yes I have just contradicted myself!
Ah well.
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
18 Dec 2009 by pacman75cricket
Chris not 100% sure but believe that would be some growth at lower temps than 9 degrees altough germination may not occur at these temperatures.
By spiking we are attempting to create pore spaces to allow roots to go to a greater depth.
Also re PSR by having greater root depth only a certain amount of compaction is caused by roller other aspects to compaction is moisture been drawn from depth by roots which is then evaporated.
So I believe PSR will only compact a certain amount until drying stage by increase in temperatures to draw moisture out of the soil profile.
Also, the frost effect will create more space between the spike holes at depths greater than what it would do by having to battle through a sealed surface layer, even allowing for decent scarification during renovation.
I also believe it also allows oxygen into the ground and permits possible noxious gas exchange back to the atmosphere. (No doubt I will be corrected if mistaken.)
Managed to get the Groundsman on my previously soaked square yesterday afternoon without doing any damage to the turf and the forecast for here is at least a couple of nights' hard frost even in the West Country, a good 20 miles from the coast, mind.
Proud to serve grassroots cricket
I've spiked cricket blocks in England with Ryan GA30 up to the end of January. No problem.
Spiked 2 premier cricket blocks in Auckland, NZ this year with Ryan GA30 during the winter (start & end of June). Great results, grass rooted really well, much more durable during playing season.
Kiwis thought I was mad. Result: sweet as!
Why will you be rolling with the soil temp less than nine Chris ?
If the grass plant is not actually growing, there is a chance that the soil will not only be cold but also to wet to start rolling. Remember, the soil needs to be drying when you commence PSR. Rolling is carried out to close up the fizzures/spaces etc created by frost heave and spiking.
Untill the soil dries enough to expose these you are wasting your time rolling.
Very often we have traditionally started our PSR sometime towards the end of Feb, some years we may still, but very often i think that many of us will not now start untill say mid March.
We are told that approx 20 passes PSR of the square should be enough. Some of these passes will probably be done once the season has started. You do not have to sit on the roller for 100 hours PSR. Weather and ground conditions will dictate, not the week or month on the calender.
So Chris, untill your grass plants are actively growing, hence helping to dry the soil, no point in rolling at all.
Chris
One reason for spiking, as I understand it, is that it can help to relieve breaks or pans in the soil. Also having spike holes will help the frosts get down into the soil to help break up breaks etc.
Then when but only when the temperature is up enough for the grass to be growing, we do psr to close up the holes. That seems to make sense to me anyway.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Many thanks for all that and yes I too will not be starting P S R until prob mid March which is 3 weeks before the usual friendly they try to get on in early April. This square has a root break about one and a half inches down where the Red Marl was put down about 30 years ago. Kaloam, or similar, has been used ever since and it is this break I have been trying to get through these past two Autumns.
Noxious gasses do escape as Phil says as at my previous club I could smell it as I spiked. Smelled a bit like my aquarium does when I do a partial water change and stir up the gravel. Which by the way, is what I should be doing now.
Cranfield has given us food for thought alright!!
Now another less convoluted question:- What happens to worms when there is 6 inch of frost in the ground???
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
Chris
I dont know what happens to worms when heavy frosts are about apart from they seem to disappear.
The worms casts over my outfield are now frozen like little stones.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Same place i suspect as they do in the summer.
Did your spiking penetrate right through the marl layer Chris ?
19 Dec 2009 by vid
It should also be remembered that the soil microbes need air to keep going, couple this up with a supply of carbon for them to feed on (remember the sugars thread!!) and you have a more sustainable environment for these same microbes, keeping them out of complete dormancy. This means that there are more microbes ready to help feed the grass plant when activity increases and the soil unlocks its nutrients in the spring. More microbes leads to a greater depth of readily available nutrient which leads to the plant putting out more root to take up this available nutrient. Fissuring of the soil allows air in to the soil and activates the roots search for food. It is not because the root can follow down these fissures but more because there is a greater amount of food available where there is more air - the roots follow areas where microbes act symbiotically with them and supply them with nurient. NPK fertilisers tend to bypass this whole process and the plant is more likely to have shallow weak root structures.
So briefly - more air + more carbon = deeper denser roots
Less air + more chemicals = shallow weak roots.
All those people panicking that they have not spiked before these frosts - dont, deep frosts are natures way of aerating the top few inches of soil - nature is doing your job for you. Myself I dont think my square has been dry enough since October to risk spiking - its getting dry enough now but is frozen and snow covered - I am not losing sleep!!
Yes Bath right through.
The spiking during renovations didn't get so deep but I suspect it went through the marl and then of course the holes took plenty of loam and seed.
I will take a sample in April and am hoping that the horizontal roots on top of the marl will have lessened and want to see some more depth to them.
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
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