Message Board - Golf: Frosty Greens????????????? Its that time of year again!
19 Dec 2009 by Char
Frosty greens does anyone let people play? White frost ? Soil frozen but no white on grass? From articles i have read, I believe a lot of courses in France and the USA wait for the white frost to thaw then they let play commence even if the the soil is frozen! Any comments most welcome........
19 Dec 2009 by Chalky 1
hello char,
I proffess no expertise but at my place: frozen leaf white frost on top, or thawing slushy soils then they are on temps no debate.
last winter I had some days where the white would go in the morning and the leaf was unfrozen but the ground still rock hard; if you drummed your knuckles on it it sounded like a piece of wood, so I reasoned if the soil was frozen solid then not much chance of root shear AND so long as there was NO chance of a thaw before the end of the day (which i learnt for my site meant sub zero air temperatures at noon) I'd put them on greens for the afternoons so the members could play "proper golf' on greens that behaved not like 70/30 but a poured, set concrete, anyway it kept them happy which is my job and if it did do any damage I was not able to isolate it as a cause from all the other things that knacker my greens.
having said all that, such a set of weather conditions as last winter would be pretty rare... wouldn't it?
good luck
19 Dec 2009 by Char
Thanks tough one i agree, i,ve always said why would you want to play on rock hard greens as it would be like playing golf on the local supermarket car park! Ive also read the the same that if the ground stays hard and frozen minimum damage is caused unlike our putting green a couple of weeks ago when members putted on it when it was still white after all that rain we had!
19 Dec 2009 by Eddy21
Hello char
I am a greenkeeper in France and am an American superintendents assistant.
At our club we never play on frozen greens when there is a White frost. But like you correctly state will play if the leaves are unfrozen and the soil underneath is solid. This practise is something I wouldn't reccomend if there is any chance of a thaw on a certain day and you really have to have your wits about you. In all due respect it is not a decision that would be left down to the staff and does take some monitoring.
Last year was my first winter in France and I was pretty surprised to see it done myself. I believe it is common practise in the west of America during the winter periods.
I am not saying go out and do it as that would be irresponsible on my behalf, but it can be done and after seeing such a practise in place. I can vouch that our greens did not show any signs of damage with a method like this.
Our members pay an awful lot of money to play here and if conditions are ok to play we will do our best to get them on full greens whenever possible.
Regards
Dave
Learning is there for every man
19 Dec 2009 by Ken Barber
I have followed this procedure many times.... in fact I did it yesterday. The greens were frozen, the leaf was not, the forecast said 'air temperature would not rise above zero'. So I opened the course...... Mind you, it closed itself an hour later once the snow started to fall.
But as rightly stated, no damage is done so long as they don't thaw out during the afternoon!
KB
The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.
19 Dec 2009 by turfjack
I'm with the answers above. The only time I restrict play is when there is a white frost or if we are going though a freeze-thaw cycle where the is a chance of sheering the roots. My simple test for frost is to quickly rub my glove across the grass, if the the fingertips are wet it's good to go, if the water is lumpy they need to wait a little longer. Once everything freezes solid I have no problem letting them out as there is very little chance of doing any real damage, but I'll keep an eye on warmer days to ensure the top doesn't start thawing and there is a potential for root sheer.
Alan FitzGerald, LedgeRock Golf Club
21 Dec 2009 by Steve63
The only note of caution that I would offer is that if the period of cold weather lasts for a number of days, wear will be significant around the hole as you will not be able to change holes.
You can suggest to the members that they may use the "putter rule" ie any putt within a putter length is a "Gimme"
Regards
Steve
Don't talk to me about Contractors Wonka, I am one myself......
22 Dec 2009 by Mel Ambler Last edited 22 Dec 2009
I have had the same problem - thanks very much everyone for your great advice.
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