2 Jan 2010 by GeoffP Last edited 2 Jan 2010
I usually start spiking the square when seed is well established in mid November. With all the rain & then snow and frost, my Auto-Turfman is yet to come out of the shed. I'm hoping to get 1 or 2 passes in before the end of this month.
Many groundsmen say several good frosts is as good as a spiking.
Also, new sward is looking in need of a feed, no chance of that in the near future!
Snow in Notts again today. Will it matter if I don't get anything done at all?
Cheers
Geoff
Think we're all in the same boat matey. Ive managed one spiking about 12 days ago just before we got the latest cold snap down here in Surrey.
I got a second winter feed in on Thursday,hopefully the spike holes will help it take but its got very cold again now.
The forecast seems to be for the cold weather to continue into Feb.
So personally, it seems toauch and go about me getting in another spiking, I wouldnt want to spike later thann say second week in Feb.
My understanding is that frosts are good if not better than spiking. I suppose if yoou have managed at least one spikinng before the frosts set in, it makes the frosts work a bit better.
Incidentally, how do you get on with your drum spiker? I have an old Patterson but I hired the trailer groundsman this time and it was a lot better to use. No heaving at all.
Think we will all be hoping for another Spring like last year!
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
2 Jan 2010 by Mike
I've been wondering for a while if there would be any benefit in watering the square to at or near field capacity in the late afternoon before a hard frost, with a view to maximizing the effect of the freeze thaw cycle.
Anyone think that there would be any benefit to this?
2 Jan 2010 by Anthony Asquith Last edited 2 Jan 2010
Hi Geoff
With anything we do it's all about hitting the right windows when conditions are right so it could be simply wasted effott by doing a certain operation (ex spiking, rolling etc).
The permafrost cycles and hydration levels of the last couple of months have allowed 'abiotic' structure enchancement to be at it's maximum which is far better than any cultivation work you could ever do. Remember clays are reactive, unstable and can exhibit various cycles of freeze/Thaw, wetting/drying etc depending on the minerology and clay fraction so in the 'average' UK wicket soil there will be enough natural structure enchancement however if possible spiking is required to compliment this but again if the conditions aren't right it is best to avoid it to cause further problems.
Geoff
If you need to discuss further then give me a ring?
Mike
In the past I have spiked and flooded the square before a hard frost to do just that, because some clays minerals can swell to several times their weight many times upon volume change this effectively 'decompacts' the structure and if you can get water down the holes then great!
Cheers
Ant
Ive no idea Mike.
But when you get weather like we ve had down here for the past couple of days, i.e bright sun all day then heavy frost, isnt that in effect whats happening? I mean heavy frost in morning then sun slightly moistens the frost then it freezes again.
I.e, nature takes its coarse.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
2 Jan 2010 by Mike
Ant - great minds think alike!!
I look at it this way - If we had a dry cold autumn/winter then the need to aerate would be far greater but if several cycles of hydration and Permafrost persists then naturaly this is doing it for you.
All you have to do is look at the Gilgai formation on high smectite soils in hotter climates to understand what natural conditions can do.
Ant
2 Jan 2010 by GeoffP Last edited 2 Jan 2010
Hi Barry,
Turfman isn't ideal, and 1 breed is only 14" wide, it takes an age to aerate my 12 track square. But it's all I've got. I've never noticed any heave. I have it fitted with 1/2 worn and 1/2 new tines to try and avoid hitting the same depth all the time. But it's no use in the shed, is it???
Geoff
As Anthony is saying, there is a time and a place for everything, if it is not the time then leave well alone. Very little spiking would be required on most cricket squares if we had cold frost winters every year, but we do not. Up untill last February, most of us have only witnessed wet, mild winters for years, so much spiking was helpful to help the clay soil along. No need now. If a spiking has been done, then great.
Mike A, agree with your thoughts, but no need this year, November was so wet anyway, why would most of us want to apply any more ?
2 Jan 2010 by Mike
Just theorizing, Bath. It would however be interesting to find out at what moisture content the freeze thaw cycle would be most beneficial, and then adjust the moisture content as and when is necessary.
You are right Mike, it would be interesting. The one problem might be of course, would it then dry out quick enough for the spring work to take place and for the first games around the 10th April, or even mid March for the first class boys who have to have grass practice wickets ready.
Geoff
I have had problems using my Patterson with heaving,nothing too bad but I got a good deal on the trailer groundsman by arranging with another local club to use it on the same day so I went for that. Much easier to use, took 2 hours to do the 14 tracks.
Looks like according to the experienced guys on here that this winter you should be ok even if you cant spike
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
2 Jan 2010 by olaf
It's winter guys..........leave the square alone, hide in the shed, go on holiday, slope off down the pub, even get some time in with the missus and do some diy. Whatever, anything but struggle about on frozen/waterlogged ground. The grass is now dormant, take a cue from that. Wait till spring it'll come around in a couple of months.
enjoy a period on inactivity, we don't get many.
I'm shoving off to Africa for a spell and can guarantee it'll look just the same when I get back in a month.
Some people are like Slinky's, totally useless but amusing if you push them down the stairs
Southern England had about 24 hours of rain during the middle of this week between cold spells when we had enough rain to saturate the thawed ground in the way you suggest, Mike. I'm sure the subsequent hard frosts have been doing the necessary, particularly on grounds where we were lucky enough to be able to spike even just the once before the first freeze.
Proud to serve grassroots cricket
2 Jan 2010 by Mike Last edited 2 Jan 2010
Phil - my theory is obviously dependent on local conditions - i've barely seen a spit of rain for 3 weeks now... can't affort to be too selective where knowledge is concerned - learn a lot and apply bits of it here and there when the need arises.
How many of our squares have frozen to 4" or more depth?
I spiked on Dec 31 and there's no way the ground was frozen at any depth so I doubt that it ever froze below the top 2 inches. We've had snow on the ground since the week before Christmas for all but about two days and this may have prevented the ground freezing to depth.
The conditions on 31st were ideal and I got two full passes done. The new turf retainer on the groundsman did the job - but what a fag it is to turn the machine with these fitted! Tips anyone?
The ciderman rolls
Please explain how it is any different to turn jon. I might be able to help.
As i posted on an earlier post, i managed to spike just over a week ago, it was only the top 6mm to 8mm that was solid, spliked striaght through. Spiked a bowling green a week ago today, the majority was fine, but where the green sat in shade the soil was solid and the spiker did not penetrate at all.
The soil around here is pretty solid now and with the weather forcast for the next week suggesting that it could stay below freezing both day and night, i reckon there is a very good chance that the frost will be to depth come this time next week.
We will all have to be patient then to wait for the thaw. It may take up to a week for that to happen to depth.
Olaf has made the best suggestion, stay away, go and have a beer or book a holiday to a warm sunny climb, both if possible. Take the missis, but only if you have to.
This week i shall be reorganising the shed and repainting the roller, if ground is still frozen when both jobs have been completed then i shall be of for a few days as well. Not long till the big H happens. Will be interesting if this weather is still around then.
3 Jan 2010 by mackay
I'm worried that some of the ideas above are a bit spurious or just muddled........
I question the value of watering your square to 'field capacity' at this time of the year. With the cold temps and prevalent weather it is almost certain that the soil in a cricket square will be at or near field capacity in any case, especially once you get past the top few mm. (Field capacity is not water sitting on top, but rather the water that remains in the soil AFTER DRAINAGE has taken place). Irrigating is only going to make the surface sit wet in the short term and make the already difficult environment even more hostile. It will also reduce those rare days when you can get on and cut or switch etc etc. Furthermore, by increasing surface moisture you will be increasing the liklihood of disease being able to spread.
Frost heave on older squares will never be a substitute for spiking since frost heave works horizontally down to the depth of penetration of the frost and so is likely to exacerbate any soil fractures. And of course, spiking will allow frost to penetrate deeper within the soil profile.
After a winter where we have seen a lot of good, hard penetrating frost pre-season rolling is even more important than normal.
3 Jan 2010 by mackay
Oh, and be wary of spiking into Jan or beyond as on some squares this will encourage cracking during the season and/or the persitence of the holes at the surface.
Hi Bath,
The problem i had with turning was that the "fingers" with the machine lifted are still only about 10 - 20mm off the ground, so pressing down on the handles to lift the front wheels quickly brings the back of the fingers into contact with the grass. This restricts the height that you can get the wheels off the ground and usually meant that either the front wheels dragged, or the fingers did. Either way you get scuffs and there was a fear of the fingers digging in on the backward side of a rotating turn or the retainer being deflected sideways in the turn.
My previous turning technique was to lift the front end and then to swivvel on the rear axle, one rear wheel going forward and the other backwards. I would turn 90 degrees, run forward a little and then turn another 90 degrees. With the retainer fitted I found this difficult to achieve.
I found the best solution was to pivot in a forwards direction around one rear wheel so that the fingers would never cut in to the grrass, but this meant that the, almost, stationary rear wheel scuffed the grass. I've got loads of scuff circles just off the square now. They'll grow out no problem and I'll probably be the only person ever to see them, but they look ugly.
The ciderman rolls
Jon why stop when turning when i spike i do it in bays as cutting the outfield. you get the job done a lot quicker as well, and no pulling your tripe out.
Jackbit may have a point Jon. I will take the matter up, have not heard of anybody else having had the problem.
Will get back to you.
Last time I bothered to check - about 3 weeks back - my main square was frozen to 3 inches at 9am. Since then all it's done it get colder.
The frost is heaving the squares and outfield quite nicely - this is easily visible without even needing to look overly closely.
I did manage to get a good spiking in just before the cold weather which I'm sure helped with the frost penetration.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
4 Jan 2010 by jlawrence Last edited 4 Jan 2010
duplicate
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
5 Jan 2010 by mario
The first snows fell here on the 16th of December covering the square to a depth of 100mm (4"). Since then there has been frost every night with more snow topping the square up to almost 200mm (8").
Have I been down to the square in the last week? Nope! No point. Only cause more damage getting down there!
Beautiful morning now, but at half six, it was snowing again. Oh well, it'll end sometime but probably not for another fortnight!
I believe that there may be some cricket on the telly!!
I know no boundaries.
This weather looks set to be very cold for he foreseable future, certainly until end of January.
So I am not even going to thinnk about spikinng again this year. Manged one, 3 weeks ago to about 3 inches, that will have to do I reckon.
If last year is repeated we can look forward to some more frozen stuff in February anyway.
I suppose the global warming ball sh**ters will say its just a blip, the last 2 winters being the coldest on record for years and years. They would though wouldnt they, dont want to lose their huge Governement grants. Very interesting articles in last Sundays Telegrap about manipulation of statistics In Uk and how in Russia, their experts are in disagreement with our lot. Its certainly very political and big business now. The Met office has a huge department of over 200 dedicated to climate change and like any politicians (and the guys at the top at the Met are like politicians) they are interested in keeping their little empires together.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
6 inches of snow here in North West and still snowing are we in for another 63, hope not. Grounds never looked as good.
Ah 63! I remember it well, I think you could well be right matey. Was only 13 at the time seem to remember it went on for weeks.
The real worry if it is going to be that bad is the effffect it could have on the economy. Many people are hanging on to jobs and dont need all this cr*p, pressure of getting to work etc.
My missus is expected to drive down 2 motorways tommorrow morning for a 2 day meeting and the tw*ts who own the company have told her she has to get there. Train is not an option.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Ahhh! 1963, my Mum spent months in hospital bringing my twin sister into the world.
The snow coming down now heavier than ever, last time I saw my square was two weeks after renovations when I fed it, I drive past occasionally to see if it is still there, it is.
Regards to all for the new year
Steve(63)
Don't talk to me about Contractors Wonka, I am one myself......
Where you Steve? Im down south in Surrey and we are supposedly going to cop it later today, Nothing as yet today.
if she is your twin, how long before her did you appear then? 
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Blackpool, eased off now but cold weather due tonight.
Just 5 mins and about 6 weeks premature.
Steve
Don't talk to me about Contractors Wonka, I am one myself......
5 Jan 2010 by trubs
Yes, I just about remember '63 too. Fell out of my Pram apparently. Haven't been the same since. 
Steve
Lot of pressure from her indoors anyway in winter for me to be doing the DIY but even more so when I cant do bugger all cos of the weather. Mind you, lots of cricket on the tel presently. But I have made a start painting one door before she comes home! 
Grim up there eh mate?
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Sat at the computer at work typing up an assessment for one of the apprentices that I did last month, nice bit of in-house training. Would do some more but this weather will stop me carrying out any further assessments for a couple of weeks.
Having to make do with TMS update box, seems to be a problem with the wickets column though.
Inch of snow and the schools have panicked, claimed H&S and closed so two kids at home while me and the missuss are at work - what a country.
Don't talk to me about Contractors Wonka, I am one myself......
my squares are still there - I think - somewhere under the snow.
Got the fun of trying to find another sparky now - mine is stuck in London and I need a new circuit in by the weekend :(
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Quite Steve. Missus couldnt get to work today so Ive had to be a busy boy painting.
We re copping it down here today, due to get reall heavy about 3.00pm. Been very bad in Hampshire and has been working its way up last 2 hours.
Ive not seen one gritter and the council dumped about 4 buckets of salt in a bin for 200 houses in our street. All schools closed and we had about only 2 inches of snow at 9.00pm.
But last year we were under foor snow in middle of Feb and then 5 weeks later I was rolling the square in my shorts!
Fingers crossed eh?
Going on holiday to sunny climes in 10 days, hope it clearss up by then cos Gatwick was shut this morning
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Since we have now started to recount our 62/63 Winter experiences I thought you'd be interested in what it was like for a 16 year old in North Lancs. Very cold of course but thinking back I can't remember actually being COLD!!
I started in November as a Telegram Lad and two of us spent a fortnight learning to ride our motor bikes on icy roads. Elf and Safety, pah!!! "Just keep getting back"
Of course there was not the volume of traffic 48 years ago and the lessons learned re road conditions have been invaluable ever since.
In January a friend and I hitch hiked from Morecambe to Dungeon Ghyll in the Langdales and eventually pitched our tent, in the dark, next to a river, in a foot of undisturbed, frozen snow.
When we woke next morning the scene was staggeringly beautiful but we had upset the farmer for daring to camp on one of his fields!!!
The canal froze over and there were massive "boulders" of ice which got bigger with each tide, all along the sea front.
Postmen didn't have it too bad, as in those days people took the trouble to clear up their paths!!
Any way when this particular freeze is over I am going to plant a hedge along one side of the ground, consisting of 80 Beech 30 Laurel 20 Hawthorn and a load of Bamboo dug up from my garden.
Keep Warm C U Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
I also have done no aeration due to weather not too concerned but was going to hollow core ends to reduce saddles is it too late now or would i still be ok if weather allows up til the end of January.
At my last club I used to do this every year and came to the conclusion that it could be done either in Spring or Autumn just so long as the tines went in OK and good cores were removed. The reasoning is/was that the ground would collapse in on itself, thereby making up for the excess loam used during renovations.
Over time it does work but it takes time. Here at this club I intend to start doing it prior to P S R and then again in Autumn. I tine from about 4 ft in front of the "popping" crease on grass cut quite short which helps when removing the cores with the Lute.
I am of the opinion that this practice can be done anytime as the umpires will tell you that anything behind the 5 ft markers is "yours" anyway. The only problem, as I said earlier, is getting decent cores out.
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
Ok Chris,
Exactly what I had planned to core to 4 ft in front of creases, for the next few years realise may take 5 years or so.
Just didn't know if was too late or if I should bring it back to the crease lines.
This square as with the previous one is above the height of the outfield so I just work my way across the ends until the ground falls away onto the outfield behind the line of the stumps.
Getting rid of the cores is up to you. If you do it in spring and scatter them on the outfield there is a chance that they might stick to the O/f mower front rollers if the grass is wet.
I either add them to the compost heap or use them to level up a low spot or two.
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
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