I'm in the market for a set of new walk greensmowers and have been presented with the flex 21 and eclipse gen set 122. anyone have any words of wisdom on either machine? positives/negatives?
thanks Lee,
i am more inclined to go with the Jacobsen as it is a little bit cheaper which helps in the current economic climate.
looking at the Jacobsen model i feel it may be more bother, a petrol engine providing power to 2 electric motors, seems like a lot more can go wrong? the flex seems a bit easier to set up also?
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GOGGA
18 Jan 2010 by Bjarni Hannesson
You seem to be quite fixed on buying a floating head mower. Research has shown that floating head movers give you slower green speeds compared with fixed head mowers on bent greens (Nikolai, 2005) (I assume those greens were not pure bent, I allow myself to assume some Poa).
I personally would never buy a floating head version unless the greens were so undulated that the movers were digging severely into the green (I don't know your situation, I'm afraid). Mind you that you should be able to keep fixed head movers set at a higher cutting height than floating head types, and still remain the same green speed. That extra HOC could reduce the "digging" (and how close do you need to cut on a severely undulated green)
The fixed head movers are cheaper, so if cost is what you are thinking about, you might be better of looking at Toro 1000, Deere 220 C, and the fixed head version of the Eclipse (or Jac 522).
If undulation is a problem, than you might also look into buying 18" versions of fixed head movers, such as the Toro 800, Deere 218 C and Jac 518. The 18" models were all made so that they could be easier on undulated greens, but with fixed head performance. They will though, obviously reduce productivity, which costs money.
But to answer your question... well, I can't. I haven't personally used them or had to manage them.
I must say it does confuse me. People love the finish of a hand mower compared to a triple and most would cut that way all the time if they could. So why try and make a hand mower work in the same way as a triple? A hand mower gives a far better roll than the units on a triple because all the weight of the machine, engine included, is spread over the two rollers only. In my opinion the JD is the best machine out there at the moment.
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
Bjarni - the greens are pretty undulating and using the floating head machine which weighs about 25% more than its fixed head equivalent helps with not having to roll as often.
Chris - you're confusing me now! i don't get your point, the weight of the machine on the flex head hand mower is still on the rollers isn't it? also posting that the jd machine is the best and not adding a few points as to why isn't at all helpful, (just some constructive criticism, not meant to offend)
Sorry greatgolf. If the cutting head is floating it is not adding any weight to the mowers main rollers as it is floating independantly. The end result is as you say 25% heavier but spread over a far greater surface area. In the same way as the weight of the engine etc are on the wheels of a triple and not the rollers.
The JD 220 is a nicely balanced nice to use machine. It certainly stays on cut better than it's rivals. It is easy to pull back than the Toro. The Toro cuts out the engine if the OPS is let go of whereas the JD just comes out of gear. ie, just let go and the machine comes to a rest as apposed to stopping dead and having put everything in neutral and restarting the engine. Pound for pound it is probably thge best deal out there. Give it a try and see what you think on your own ground.
chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
19 Jan 2010 by Torch
Buy A Baroness. Better than all the rest of them put together.
The answer is None more black.
19 Jan 2010 by Bjarni Hannesson
You are obviously in the best position, greatgolf, to judge what will suite your side. The flex movers are good in certain conditions, no doubt about that.
I do though question your comment on the flex mover's extra weight resulting in less need for rolling. The weight of the roller isn't as important as the action the roller has on the surface. This can be seen on the roller studies made at Michican State University (2002-2003), where the Speed Roller (about 4 PSI) produced faster mean greenspeed than the heavier Salsco and Smithco rollers (about 5-6 PSI).
If speed is what you are after (you might not, so I might just be wasting your time here:) then I would argue that you would need to roll more if you go for the floating head design, since they generally produce about 6" slower greens (according to my previously cited research in my first post). If less digging in/scalping is what you seek, then go with the floating head design.
I would also always try to cut as little as possible, but roll as much as I can, as rolling (no more than every other day) stresses turf less than cutting.
I do agree with Chris here, that the Deere 220 C is a good machine from an operational standpoint. It has fantastic traction, so much so it's almost hard to cut a bad line (well, almost;). I would get one demoed, if it digs in, get the floating heads... but if it doesn't, save some money by all means.
Regards
Bjarni
p.s. sorry for taking your threat away from your original question, but I hope the points I'm making get you, or somebody ells, to think in a new light.
p.s.s. when I say roll more, I do realise that more rolling than every other day for a prolonged period can reduce turf quality. If more rolling is needed to sustain speed, the 1/3 rule can always be applied.
Great Golf
We have tried all three brands of floating head mowers. We recently replaced our Toro Flex21 with John Deere 220E-cut. I will have to say that both mowers have advantages and disadvantages.
John Deere:
Advantages - Techincain freindly for everyday adjustments and checks, Cheaper fuel enconomy(maybe 25% at best)
Disadvanatges - Heavy units both cutting heads and machine wieght, Due to being heavy it also leaves turning marks on collars, The units come out of square easily(during grinding process and sometimes even while loading mower on trailer, If you run mowers two deep on trailers then you will have a brake and traction cable issues, you can not tilt unit back to clean reel without someone holding down on the handle, low speed idle comes out of adjustment about once every few months(once you drop below @1400rpm you lose power to cutting unit)
Toro:
Advantages - lighter wieght units, no marks when turning on collars, easier to load and unload units, easier to turn units, wieght of unit is centered so that you can tilt mower back for cleanup and adjustments
Disadvantages - possible oil leak(although never happened to us in 2 years), transmission does fail on occasion due to wear usually if oil is not changed at suggested intervals(don't be afraid of it, a good technicain can rebuild the transmission in about 2 hours with the cost @$400 depending on the problem, some problems can be fixed with @$20 of parts), belts have to checked weekly(there are 4 belts one on either side of the drum, one breaks no drive, then you have one on machine to transfer power to cutting unit and another on cutting unit to turn the reel)
I think that might answer some of your questions, I hope. If it helps you at all I will be purchasing Toro Flex21's the next time I am in the market for walk mowers.
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