Message Board - Cricket: mounting a campaign
14 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
Ive decided to mount a campaign for a set of roll on covers for next season.
Any recommendations? I reckon on at least 6k for a set of three but I havent done much research as yet.
Reason for this is that the flat sheet i have has developed some small holes that are so far impossible to detect and I havent had any luck in finding a way to pull the thing on by myself and as I have a flat square and ground, roll ons would probably work ok. But i do realise that tey would need to be a good set otherwwise they could be less effective tan a flat sheet.
I did see a new flat sheet on another ground on Sunday, WWW.Climatecover I think it was. certainly was light but have heard that these are evven more prone to leaks etc.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
14 Jun 2010 by A J Last edited 14 Jun 2010
Barry
Had a set of three stewart canvas mk 3`s roll ons last year.
They ok but green hose`s were splitting where they fit to gullys. but other wise ok? cost £5k
Grow in grace...........
14 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
Thats a worry though. My concern about roll ons is that without side sheets, if there is any problems)like the one you mentioned) you end up worse than a flat sheet.
Whats the section covering like between each unit?
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
14 Jun 2010 by jlawrence
when it comes to side sheets you could just use the cheapest tarps you can find - about 50 quid to covers a track.
you'd be forgiven for thinking these would be cr4p but as side sheets they work fine. in conjunction with rollon they help keep the playing track perfectly dry.
for roll on I'd go for some with decent connectors for the hoses. sopme use geka connectors, not sure about that idea as they're only designed to be water tight under pressure.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
14 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
Jon
What would you say is a decent connector then?
I was thinking about cheapish tarps actually for side sheets. But how do you position them? Do you lay them down first and then roll the covers over them?
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
14 Jun 2010 by Andy Matthews
barry we have a set of 3 ro ro's delivered last year and they didn't cost us a penny, we have a an engineering company that sponsor us, they have their name printed all over the tarps which is fair enough, OK so everybody isn't that lucky but you may be able to get some made up and a reduction in the price for them having their names on them, you can ask for nowt. You can then have them made to your spec regards size and hoses etc
14 Jun 2010 by barry glynn Last edited 14 Jun 2010
Andy, plan is to try and get a sponsor anyway but not an engineering firm. But hopefully if a company can have their name all over the 3, we might get someone to come up with something
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
14 Jun 2010 by mario
My covers and sheets have been supplied by JMS Cricket of Keighley, Yorkshire.
The mobiles are in their 9th season with the flat sheeting being six years old. Neither of them have given me any problems.
As I have a slope across my square, you will note in the photo the use of a boom, essentially a sleeve into which 80mm land drain pipe is inserted to prevent ingress under the mobiles.
The mobiles can be connected together to facilitate moving from the square or for bringing on being towed behind my triple, Gator or tractor.
I know no boundaries.
14 Jun 2010 by jontaylor
Weren't Durant doing a sponsorship deal with cricket force this year. Several clubs around here got new sets of roros. I think the deal worked out somewhere near £4.5K for three, vat inc. The sets I've seen at Grimsby and Scunthorpe are very easy to move and look well built. Overlap between covers is about 4 feet.
Someone will know for sure what the deal was.
Teach whoever moves the covers to loop the hoses on top of the covers b4 moving them. They're easier to move that way and the connectors won't get broken.
The ciderman rolls
14 Jun 2010 by mario
The flat sheeting sizes are -
Run-ups 10 m x 10m
Side sheets 25 m x 5 m
Large extension sheets 25 m x 10 m
The large sheets require to be taken off/on with the tractor as illustrated.
I know no boundaries.
14 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
Mario
Got no tractor Im afaid. Im only looking to get the ro ros for ease of covering manually by myself with maybe some cheap tarps as Jon Lawrence mentioned.
Jon T, yep just had a look at the Durrant site, you are right, about 4.5k with the cricket force deal. not bad if the covers are actually ok.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
14 Jun 2010 by Grassman2011
Covers are superb Barry. I had a new set for this year. Exactly the same as the ones from JMS. Same build, very slight fixings difference.
The governors of both Durrant and JMS were once business partners at JMS, so no surprise really that the covers are the same.
14 Jun 2010 by A J
get good coverage - each one 25tf x12ft. i had a look at knolwe & dorridge cc - mrk 2s "photo" on s/c site they changed there hose`s to geeker/triflow hoses. they had a photo of mine on there stand at saltex which i was surprised to see. jt right about looping hoses tho. good covers.
Grow in grace...........
15 Jun 2010 by willard
To be sure of getting a game on, I would much rather cover with 2 layers of hessian (3m x 24m) then 1 lay flat cover (9m x 24m) than using roll ons. They are only shower proof as water runs underneath them because they are so narrow.
Waste of money.
15 Jun 2010 by A J
Is your square on a ski slope willard?
Grow in grace...........
15 Jun 2010 by jlawrence
some roro's have hooks for clipping sheets on. with cheap tarps you probably need to be clipping them on rather than laying them flat like Mario's. if they're laid flat then you need soom type of boom to stop the water running under. cheap tarps do let water through so imo not really suitable for laying flat - but either way still better than nothing.
as for connectors, basically anything water tight, could be geka connector work well - I just can't see how as they're not water tight unless under pressure.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
15 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
Bluecoat, not only is Willard omnipotent, he has the strength of 4 men because if he had taken the bother to read my reason for trying to get roll ons, he would have seen i cant get my flat sheet on my own.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
15 Jun 2010 by mario
Jon,
I opted for a boom arrangement as they are far quicker to deploy than clip-ons, but I take your point about running underneath if there is any kind of slope on a square.
Even very slight saddling on the ends will make the water congregate in the middle of a pitch - and it has to go somewhere, more than likely under the mobiles!
As Willard says, perhaps a lightweight sheet combined with hessian as an absorbent to prevent "tiger striping" caused by sweating, may be a solution and less expensive.
The pitch protector sheets supplied by JMS Cricket can be deployed by one person as far as I understand. Their sheeting is as used in America to cover baseball diamonds and football events. Maybe worth a check out?
I know no boundaries.
15 Jun 2010 by jlawrence
IMO if you go for a boom arrangement then you need better quality sheets. I can't explain why, but when I tie my cheap sheets to the side of the roro's I get a lot less water standing on them - it seems to run off a lot more.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
15 Jun 2010 by A J Last edited 15 Jun 2010
We decided to go with roro`s simply because of the one man operation and easy to move around. I cant trust or rely on others to move them around, plus i can keep my beady eye on them from my house. I`d consider security too barry.
Haven`t got round to side sheets yet but covers do have fixing points for them? Still thinking if i would have the time to manage them?
Have to say, i`ve managed to keep 99% of games on, but we have a shorter fixture list compared to you club boys.
Grow in grace...........
15 Jun 2010 by A J
Had our logo put on for £200.
Grow in grace...........
15 Jun 2010 by A J
pic
Grow in grace...........
15 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
Ive got a flat square with little saddles but thats currently which can and will change. I do have a slight dip in middle that could be a problem with roll ons I suppose.
Probably would need clip on side covers
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
16 Jun 2010 by willard
No other cricket playing nation uses roll ons. Big waste of money. Lay flat cover, minimum 3 pitches wide, & 2 layers of hessian, 1 pitch wide, does the job right up to test level.
I've used both & lost countless number of games back in the UK on unlevel blocks.
Won't use them again.
16 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
And how do you do that on your own?
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
16 Jun 2010 by Andy Matthews
willard as usual on the covers issue it's you thats talking complete rubbish, with your southern hemisphere view, so all the test, 1st class and thousands of club grounds are all wasting their money then!!, I have used both and flat sheets and they are a complete pain in the ****, I havent had the expensive ones but it would seem from other threads that they are also a pain, with flat sheets you get seepage and condensation which if puddles form then leave damp patches, add to that the fact that hessian is also very expensive and heavy. I had my ro ro's on all last week whilst it pissed it down and Saturdays pitch was completely dry, I have got loads of games on due to ro ro's and flat sheets as opposed to loosing them. Talk sense or don't bother, the UK is a unique enviroment when it comes to keeping the weather out and pitches dry. I am sure Mario doesn't use his system for the fun of it.
16 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
No Andy- you dont understand, all these UK companies are making roll on covers because they dont sell any 
cos they dont work at all.
I do think however, that for the club groundman working on his own, there is no easy answer. I know from past experience on other grounds that roll ons with slopes are a problem. Also that with heavy rain and no side sheets, seepage and drain leaks can be a problem with ro ro's.
However, my 3 track sheet is very heavy and inspite of various attempts to attach ropes in differing ways, pulling it on with my triple(no tractor) is not possible. So my only option is trying to find passing people etc to help.
Or I could go for one of these new lighter climate flat sheets but have heard bad reports of them not being hard wearing.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
16 Jun 2010 by A J Last edited 16 Jun 2010
On photo cover is being used here to keep moisture in on flooded track. In my case, using flat sheets to do this would be far too time consuming to move on & off. Plus those 500 + little darlings would be using it has a water slide!!
They think twice when covers on.
Usefull for keeping track dry too....
But can see disadvantages you might have on other grounds. raised saddles, slopes e.t.c
Hey, each to there own.
Grow in grace...........
16 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
Exactly Bluecoat, each to his own, no one answer.
If I could have a flat cover that was light enough and hard enough, it can work. But they do sweat and can take an hour to take the water off with the Bowdry before taking it off. But getting it on is a big problem and your have to peg them down or they just blow off.
But ro ro's can leak etc but are much easier for someone on their own to push on and cover showery weather whilst at the ground.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
16 Jun 2010 by jlawrence
Both roro's and sheets have their place.
Players struggle to get roro's on straight how the heck would they manage with 2 layers of hessian and a flat sheet.
I find flat sheets invaluable for controlling the drying of a track but they're a pita when it comes to keeping the rain off.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
16 Jun 2010 by jlawrence Last edited 16 Jun 2010
double post.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
16 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
Well Jon, Im only thinking about keeping the rain off. I d never get players to put on hessian sheets and a flat sheet. I need something that will keep the rain off that I can put on myself.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
16 Jun 2010 by jlawrence
Barry, Roro's are easily managed on your own. Adding side sheets is time consuming and I only add them if a major down pour is expected - and only then if it's a thursday or friday night.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
16 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
Thats what I am thinking Jon. If its gonna slash down from tuesday onwards, nothing is going to get a game on anyway. I only look to get the sheet on if I have to from weds late onwards and then only if the end of the week has no sunshine, cant leave a flat sheet on for days, all nasty things happen underneath it if you do eh?
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
16 Jun 2010 by jlawrence Last edited 16 Jun 2010
I wouldn't think twice about leaving sheets on for a week if necessary.
Yes, disease can happen but so what - we can treat that if we need to. What matters is trying to keep the square playable.
I've had it rain last season from Tuesday through to Friday and still managed to get a game on on the Saturday. My outfields drain pretty well in most areas and I've considerably improved the poor areas, so if I can keep the square dryish then it will be playable.
Ideally I'd like to have the sheets off for at least a few hours a day - it's rare that I'd need to have them on for more than 24 hours with no opportunity to give the square some air.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
16 Jun 2010 by barry glynn
What I mean is, is that if its been chucking it down for 3 days,on my ground anyway, its unlikely the square would be fit anyway come saturday but I will try obviously. If its too wet to get the cover off for just a couple of hours during the day, its going to be too wet anyway.
Anyway, been down the flat sheet route for a while now and tiny holes are getting harder to locate and fix. Also no matter how I whinge and go on about it, players still run over it during play time when its been dragged off just outside the boundary.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
17 Jun 2010 by jlawrence
I know the problem Barry. Players don't seem to understand that if you run over a sheet in studs you get holes in it - and sheets with holes in don't work right well.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
17 Jun 2010 by A J
This is what happend this afternoon. hoses haven`t even moved! sombody must have cought it. As mentioned in begining of this thread, This happens a lot and is very frustrating......
Grow in grace...........
17 Jun 2010 by jlawrence
it is annoying and is very very easy to do - I've lost count the number of times I've actually done it myself.
I have thought about replacing my hoses with some decent ones - but I want to replace the whole covers so I suppose I'd better wait.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
17 Jun 2010 by mario
I've seen this type of damage on similar covers in the past.
I have Trico hoses with Geka fittings on mine, but don't get me wrong, I too have clobbered them breaking the fitting.
However it's a 2 minute job to changeover!
I know no boundaries.
17 Jun 2010 by trubs
I use a lay flat 'firemans ' type hose, purchased from local hardware shop. It's very flexible and strong.
18 Jun 2010 by A J
At first thought i had fualty hoses? S/C came out and replaced hoses last season. put new ones on beginning of this one, same problem. Glad i`m not on my own,
Flat, trico, are good options so will have a look into it over the winter.
Cheers for feedback Guys.
Grow in grace...........
18 Jun 2010 by willard
Andy Matthews, you are the one talking rubbish, utter rubbish. I've used both in both hemispheres. I'm entitled to my view. What's your experience?
19 Jun 2010 by willard
Hessian: heavy & expensive.
Nonsense.
Cheap as chips. Light as.
How can covering an area the size of just 1 pitch be as effective as covering 3 pitches?
Don't get it.
19 Jun 2010 by Andy Matthews
My experience is of using both flat sheets and Ro Ro covers but only in one hemisphere, importantly perhaps the one that this website deals with, there has been much debate on this site in other threads about covers whether they be flat or raised, a recent thread discussed the failings of the very expensive climate sheets and I think was the reason barry started this thread, as he was thinking of having some. It was pointed out by people with these sheets, that they can tear and that they also have problems with UV and degrade, with only a life span of around 5 years. The point still remains that even with flat climate sheets if your square isn't 100% flat and no club squares are, even the slightest hollow will cause a puddle to form and you will then get a damp patch, added to that if there is any ammount of water on the covers then you simply can't move them, untill the vast majority of it has been removed, all clubs have to cut their cloth accordingly and covers are a huge investment for most clubs, they therefor need to get the best return for their money, both the flat covers of whatever type and RO Ro's have there place in wicket coverage in the UK, the popular view from the people who use this site is that Ro Ro's and cheap flat side sheets are the ideal combination in the UK, to simpley right off Ro Ro's is rediculous, you are entitled to your opinion but at least make it objective and say why you have a problem with them and then let the original poster form and opinion. Lastly the one major advantage of Ro Ro's is that they are a one man operation piece of kit, most club groundsman are on there own and the 3 sections are easy to move, even the lightest flat sheets become immovable with even a small ammount of water on them.
19 Jun 2010 by jlawrence
There is one MAJOR advantage of RoRo's which no one has mentioned. That being air circulation.
RoRo's allow air to circulate under them, flat sheets don't - period. Yes, the climate covers et al are breathable but they are not as good in this respect as RoRo's.
Without my tractor I would find it next to impossible to move my flat sheets - admittedly I do cover 3 tracks at a time and sometimes the whole match square (12 tracks). That's a lot of water to shift before moving them.
Both RoRo's and sheets play their part and personally I'd not like to be without either of them.
I've already put in a proposal to our committee for a replacement full cover system - RoRo's and sheets for both the rest of the square and bowlers run ups. Yes, together it will cost quite a chunk of money. But over their lifespan they will be more than worth it imho.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
19 Jun 2010 by willard Last edited 19 Jun 2010
I don't think roll ons are quick to put on. You have to move 3 seperate units, attach the joins & pull out the hoses.
2 people can put on 2 layers of hessian & lay flat cover quicker.
Learning how to fold the covers helps. They should be put in the center of pitch, then simply pulled out & pegged. Do one half first, then the other.
I still don't get how just covering one pitch with roll ons is going to save a game unless it's just a shower.
You push the water off the lay flat before trying to move it. Unless you are a lucky ******* with a super sopper!
20 Jun 2010 by Vic Demain
A true Kiwi aboard a GB machine, gold.
20 Jun 2010 by Grassman2011
You said it Willard. Two people can pull out a sheet. I think that if asked you would find that most of us are on our own.
20 Jun 2010 by andy dixon
I use "climbing clips" (Sorry, can't remember the proper name) for my side sheets and clip them to my mains. Cost £85 for 100 clips. Vic, i swear that is the same machine i hired a few weeks back. £950 a day!
20 Jun 2010 by Mal Last edited 20 Jun 2010
Just to add my experiance of flat sheets and yes I had the same trouble of players running over the sheet and pretty much what everyone has experianced above. I can't say however that I had any trouble with trying to remove water from the sheet before moving it as I always pulled the sheet over itself in the direction of the crossfall and this cleared the water to the side and away from the pitch. Ok it left the square a little wet next to the wicket but on a good day this dried quick enough, particularly when done early enough. If it rained up till the point they came off then the square and outfield were just as wet anyway.
Geography is everywhere
20 Jun 2010 by Vic Demain
Another Andy, hire it 25 times and you may have paid for it.
20 Jun 2010 by jlawrence
It's all well and good saying that 2 people can put on sheets quicker than roro's. It's a rare occasion when there's two able bodied people at my ground during the day.
Roro's are way way quicker to put on and position correctly when on your own - even though I have a tractor to help. to put them in place I simply hook 'em onto the 3pt linkage and I'll have the track covered in under 5 minutes on my own.
There's no way I can get my sheets on in that time frame working on my own.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
2 Jul 2010 by barry glynn
Hi
laptop sick, borrowed this one, hope you all have survived without me!
Jon, you hit the nail on the head, not possible to get large sheet on my own and I ve tried every thing.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
5 Jul 2010 by jlawrence
I can put large sheets on by myself, but certainly not quickly.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
5 Jul 2010 by Andy Matthews
Another factor here we had all forgot with flat sheets, it's been windy the last couple of days, oh what fun trying to get a flat sheet on, on your own when it's windy, great entertainment for the local residents though.
6 Jul 2010 by barry glynn
yes Andy, e**ing impossible.
Had a small concert at our ground Sunday,good turnover, already plotting my claim....
Bit of a mess on outfield but may have been worth it
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
6 Jul 2010 by paul kelsey
Tell me you didnt do the Elvis bit again Barry [ where's the pics]
6 Jul 2010 by barry glynn
No Paul! I am waiting for someone to send me the pics he took. What it was, we are really lucky to have a colts parent who is a musician and is a friend of Ric Astley who lives locally and he does one or two gigs for us and a local childrens hospice charity ( we split the profits). he plays with 2 mates, he plays the drums and sings and plays covers of recent stuff and some punk stuff, "Teenage Kciks"etc, Foo Fighters etc. hes a really nice bloke and a top performer, having a really successful renaissance currently but fitted in this gig for us on Sunday, 400 people came, they played outside in front of the pavilion. Great night, outfield in a bit of a mess but small price to pay
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
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