3 Aug 2010 by Mike
Hi guys,
I'm looking for some opinions on 34 - 42" cylinder mowers. We have identified that we may be able to offload our trusty Jacobsen Tri-king next year, and replace/upgrade to the above type of mower. In the main, the mower would be for cutting cricket squares at 13/15mm, and possibly, a grass hockey pitch at 18mm.
Important factors are reliability, build quality, ease of operation/comfort, quality of cut and service back up/parts availability, and ultimately, cost
I have identified five possibilities:
Ransomes Mastiff
Allett Regal
Protea Heavy Duty 36"
Dennis G860
Dennis Premier
Could any users/operators of any of the above machines, or anyone who has a working knowledge on the service/repair side of things please pass on your thoughts about any of the above machines, or suggestions of any other models that I may have missed.
Please, no offers or pm's offering the above machines/deals etc - we are in the very early planning stages for next year, so identifying the correct machine is all that is needed at this point in time.
Many thanks,
Mike
The Mastiff is correctly at the top of your list.
It is a first class machine.
Some of the others are second class.
One is third class imo.
GOGGA
3 Aug 2010 by Leeboy
We have Allett Buffalos, which replaced our aging mastiff 2 years ago. We bought them based on the lightness of the machine in comparison to a Mastiff, we now have 5 Buffaloes at the stadium now. The training ground bought a new Mastiff three years ago and it has been in for repair more often than it has been in use and has from what I can gather been the worst machine we have ever bought, I would never go back to having one, particularly at double the weight of a Buffalo. Our local dealer has said he has never had as many aftersales problems with machines than with a Mastiff.
Dennis Prem for me Mike, best machine I've ever had. Get in touch with Toby Clarke or take a visit to Saltex. Great balance, ease of use. Wish I still had time to cut my outfields with one.
Vic.
3 Aug 2010 by Mike
Hmmn... 3 different opinions... what is one to do?!
Thanks for all opinion's though.
Vic - Saltex is an absolute nightmare time for me - right at the start of term. I'd love to get to Saltex and demo some of the machines, but it will be very difficult. Have spoke to Toby once before re running a demo day over here - seems like a nice guy. What I would say is that in the past, Dennis' back up service has been top notch, but they are not in my good books at the moment. The cush drive in our FT510 failed (apparently, a known problem), which led to a fractured drive shaft. According to our dealer, whom ordered a new cush drive and drive shaft assembly for us, the drive assembly has now been updated, and the new parts no longer fit the rest of the drive assembly - there has been no technical bulletin relating to this update (according to our dealer), so we are left in a position where we have had to order more parts for the new drive shaft to fit... not impressed. Hopefully, this is a one off.
Mike
3 Aug 2010 by Leeboy
As you say, three different opinions. We all have different opinions and experiences, good and bad, best way is to get them in and have a look yourself or visit others who have the machines. Our Buffaloes were bought after seeing how well they work down the road, equally we didnt go with a Mastiff based on how poor it had (and has continued) to perform.
Well Lee, which aspect of the Mastiff is the cause of your angst? (Engine, Powertrain or cutting unit?)
I believe the lightweight engineering of the Allett will be it's downfall and maybe why you needed to buy 5 to replace one Mastiff?
I put the Ransomes-made machine at #1 for its quality of cut, the quality of its cutters and the quality of the cutter engineering & geometry.
It also has the balance to be able to carry a full box of grass and a reliable engine.
Your dealer should have been able to sort any problem with the transmission and if they couldn't then I would question the factory direct. (And query the ability of the dealership!)
GOGGA
I would go with Dennis Mike. Got the premier myself, lovely machine.
Before you opt for anything with a 42inch cut, check that somebody on the Island has the ability to regrind it. Most cover up to 36inches, not many for bigger widths.
3 Aug 2010 by Leeboy
Sumo, the main problem has been the electrics from what I have been told.
We went from one mastiff to 5 Alletts to allow more work to be done in a shorter space of time between the three of us at the stadium, we got two first, added a second hand one as a back up soon after then got two more last year. Our main reason for buying them was the lightness of them on our old compact pitch, in turn these will also help us with the new pitch to keep the weight off from the start.
Couldnt comment much more on the Mastiff as it is based at the training ground (and the repair shop!), I have only used it once and swapped with someone else on another mower 10 minutes later - I can now see why people always talk about 'their old mastiff', I think it relates to the 'they dont make them like they used to' saying!
I did have brief dialogue once on here with Peter Driver who does the PR for Ransomes I think, but after a couple of chats on here, nothing more happened to sort the problems, another reason why I wouldnt go with a Mastiff.
3 Aug 2010 by Sumomosr Last edited 3 Aug 2010
based at the training ground (and the repair shop!),
LOL.
Fair points re:weight and your compaction issues.
Electrics on these mowers aren't rocket-science so I feel the fault is more with the dealership than with the machine as I suspected.
Disappointing to read that Mr.Driver wasn't able to pass your concerns on to be resolved satisfactorily.
I'd still have one over the rest any day...
Edit. Mike. 42" is too wide to be mowing a square with imo.
GOGGA
3 Aug 2010 by Mike
Before you opt for anything with a 42inch cut, check that somebody on the Island has the ability to regrind it. Most cover up to 36inches, not many for bigger widths.
That's a great point, Bath... one that I hadn't considered - can't beat advice from an experienced head!
We do have Dennis and Ransomes dealerships on the island, who are both able to supply the above machines - if they are able to supply them, I would fully expect them to be able to maintain them, but this is a question that I will certainly ask.
Mike
3 Aug 2010 by Mike
Sumo - currently, we cut our squares with our Tri-king (72"?). Not ideal, I know, and this is why I want to address it and purchase something more suitable. Before the Tri-King, we cut the squares with an old Atco... I think that was only 18" if my memory serves me correctly. The reason that we had to switch to, and ultimately our main reason for buying the Tri-king was productivity as we were struggling massively in terms of productivity at the time - when we were cutting with the Atco, the squares were getting cut once every 3 weeks if we were lucky... obviously not a good situation. We now cut the squares twice a week, three times if we are lucky - I want to be able to maintain this frequency of cut (and increase it if possible). This is my reason for identifying something in the range of 34 - 42" - productivity is still critical to us, but the improvement in the quality of cut is also very important to me. I'm happy to take advice on this (from anyone who isn't trying to sell me a machine), so if you think that something else would be more suitable, please make any suggestions.
Mike
3 Aug 2010 by A J Last edited 3 Aug 2010
agree on the Dennis prem mike. good all round weight from drive to front rollers and balance.
had mastiiffs & allets also good. like Vic, time was a issue so up graded to a jd triple. do miss the Dennis finish on the hockey & soccer pitches though.
Grow in grace...........
4 Aug 2010 by Vic Demain Last edited 4 Aug 2010
Mike. Re cutting the square. Buying a new 36" would seem one hell of an expense just to do this job. Sure our old 36" (Allett) is only used for this purpose but it was bought cheap and cutting 2 squares with it is a criminal waste of a machine, when in fact cutting with the 24" would only take a few minutes more.
Vic.
ps. think you have been unlucky with your other machine, having dealt with Dennis for 12 years, I have received nothing but top notch service.
4 Aug 2010 by Mike
Thanks for your thoughts, Vic.
My idea was to sell our Tri-king, which is tidy so should have a decent value, and put whatever funds raised from that towards the new cylinder mower to offset the initial cost slightly. We would be cutting 4 squares, and a grass hockey pitch which makes up part of one of our outfields, although if staff and time permitted in the future, I would love to be able to cut the whole outfield with it, although this would be a very unlikely scenario tbh. I take on board what you say though, so will try to identify some smaller machines that would be suitable.
I'm hoping that you are right about the Dennis - I have had good service from them too, so this was hopefully just an oversight.
Mike
MIke, if your tri king is stll tidy, what about investigating the possibility of a new set of " fine turf" cylinders for it?? ( dont know if they exist though) we will cut our squares with a jacobsen greensking if pushed for time ( usually just kept for verti cutting)
It takes about 2.5 hours to cut a stadium football pitch using one 36 inch mower.
Before you trade in a triple ride on mower, consider the extended time needed to mow the same area.
I wouldn't use a 36 inch mower on a cricket block. Not enough blades, and no grooming device.
Get yourself a JD C series 26 inch for your blocks.
You will get a nice tight sward as a result...
4 Aug 2010 by Mike Last edited 4 Aug 2010
Ok guys,
So it looks like I need to aim a little bit smaller on the square mower front, and look at either sticking with the tri-king for our hockey pitch/outfield, or going for one of the above cylinder mowers for outfield (time permitting).
Willard - Although I am a fan of John Deere, I would not buy one as I won't do business with our local agency - service backup is very important to me, so if I can't place my complete faith in their dealership, I won't buy from them, irrespective of how good the machine is.
Mike
Just to highlight the power of Pitchcare and the customer commitment of Dennis uk, I received a call from the aforementioned Mr Clarke, today asking for contact details for Mike as he would like to call and discuss the problems experienced. He was not aware of the situation and hoped to sort out any inconvenience.
4 Aug 2010 by Mike
Thanks for passing this on Vic, and thank you Toby/Dennis UK for reading and attempting to make contact re discussing the problem - will speak to you in due course.
Mike
5 Aug 2010 by Mike Last edited 5 Aug 2010
Fair play to Dennis UK. Following an exchange emails in to the late hours of last night, explaining the initial fault, and events following it, Toby from Dennis had a full breakdown of why the fault could have occurred and what they have done to ensure that this fault doesn't happen again in the future, all before 9am this morning.
First class service from Dennis - thank you Toby, and Vic for putting us in touch.
Mike
10 Aug 2010 by Mike
Ok, back to the original topic...
I have found a second hand Atco B30e for sale. The price is very good, and it comes with a brand new engine and battery (fitted), fully serviced and sharpened. I have had a look at it, and it is in very good condition. The service centre we use for most of our repairs can source parts for Atco, and in general their service is very good. With it being 30", I would only use it for cutting the squares, but one slight concern is that it has a 6 blade cylinder - would anyone be concerned by this, or would a 6 blade cylinder suffice?
Mike
Atco i believe is for heavy domestic work. May be fine for cutting the square, six blades ok, but not for anything else, especially not your outfield.
I believe they may have plastic gears that can let you down.
No doubt Sumo will let you know, dont expect him to be to keen.
10 Aug 2010 by Mike
Thanks Bath - I anxiously await Sumo's input!
I know it isn't ideal, but it is only £700 - I can buy this and not have to sell our Tri-king to fund a large cylinder mower - thus I get to keep on cutting areas of outfield/hockey pitch with the Tri-king, and I get my wish of having a large cylinder mower for the squares.
We have a B20e which is rarely used now, but in all fairness, when it was in use it did a decent enough job, and never let us down in terms of reliability.
Mike
10 Aug 2010 by Sumomosr Last edited 10 Aug 2010
Royale B30e ? still has chain drive and is the last vestige of pseudo-quality left over from the days of the Raj and Atco greatness.
£700 is about the price of a new ali' grass box for one so to get a whole mower...
The 6-bladed cylinder is ok-ish as it is small in diameter and so still has a sufficient clip-rate for average heights of cut on a square.
Don't expect it to pull you on the trailed seat though as it has a small diameter clutch plate and there is excessive load for towing bulky groundsmen. It's ideal for sweeping curves on country estate lawns tho.
Source and store a set of spare control cables to kep you running on a weekend emergency as I feel these are the Archilles Heel of the machine. For some reason Atco use 'lighter-weight' cabling than other manufacturers and they will fail at the most inopportune time.
Use the blade clutch to save wear when transporting across the outfield or use a trailer.
One downside - I found they didn't throw damp grass that well owing to the small diameter reel mentioned above, and the reel bearings themselves are small and the RHS housing tends to flog out too easily. Oh and the bedknife adjusters are mentally challenging for the average IQ usilising, as they do, an intermediate cam action. (That's 3 downsides actually).
You could do worse.
GOGGA
10 Aug 2010 by Mike
Sumo - that's brilliant... i'll get the cheque book!
Many thanks,
Mike
Atco is dreadful mower. Cutting reel rotates too slowly. To prove it. Cut 1 area first with that piece of junk. Cut another area, same size, with a proper machine (JD). You will have double the amount of clippings.
We used one when we felt lazy cutting croquet or tennis. Didn't fancy emptying grass box. Did the job.
As for the clutch & build quality...
All down to budgets Willard....... unless of course you want to make a donation to Mike for a JD??
11 Aug 2010 by Mike Last edited 11 Aug 2010
Correct, Neil - the Atco, whilst not a top class machine, should do an adequate job for us. We have to take the level of play in to context, the finances available etc - the Atco ticks all of the boxes.
Willard - as I mentioned above, as things currently stand, I will not buy anything from John Deere based on the fact that I consider that our dealership are unable to offer the level of backup service that I consider appropriate... would you buy a JD cylinder mower when your dealership are unable to grind the cylinder, would you buy a machine from a dealership that has been unable to supply a part (indicator relay for a jd 955) for over 2 years (when the part has actually also been paid for, and was last seen supposedly sitting "in one of the boy's vans")? John Deere are strictly off my radar, irrespective of how good their machinery is.
Mike
If you have a problem with JD, try Toro. They are slightly over complicated & not as strong as JD. But still a good mower.
Atco makes Ransomes & Llyods look like world beaters...
Truly dreadful.
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