The cricket club is having a bad time financially and have asked me what work can be done on the square at the end of the season to keep costs down.
Would it be possible to create a seed bed on the wicket ends and over seed, then lute in about 30 bags of the same loam as we have used for a few years and finally spread 50 Kgs of fertiliser, probably pre-seeder or autumn/winter.
The square has 10 tracks, and the materials would be, 40 bags of loam (save 10), 2 x 25Kg fertiliser and 10Kg mm50 seed or similar.
I think that should come in around £325.
There is a good grass coverage on the present strips and the wickets have played well this year.
A better idea would be to buy 120 bags of loam and 20 Kg of seed but that would be around £400 more.
Your input would be most welcome.
Very cheapest way is do nothing. Can i suggest the following. Scarify hard, this must be done.
Two 20kg bags of seed for ten wickets. One bag of pre seed fert and enough bags of loam to repair the ends only.
Depending on the cost of your loam, say £4 per bag, say 40 bags, £160 + vat, seed £120/£130 for two bags. Bag of fert £20 + vat or less.
So about £300 ish absolute minimum. Do not cut down on scarifying and seed.
13 Aug 2010 by mario
If I am reading your post correctly, Gordon, are you advocating not covering the seed which is in the scarifier slits on the square and only covering with loam the slits at the ends?
I know no boundaries.
The first question has to be:
What is the state of the ends ?
If they've been repaired throughout the season then there is a chance that you may not need any extra loam on them.
If you do nothing then you won't be sorting out any issues with levels.
As Gordon says, you must scarify - if you don't you'll risk creating a thatch problem in the surface.
You can get away without covering the seed. What I'd be tempted to do would be to scarify, seed, feed, brush seed/fert into scarify slits then lightly roll to close the slits up a bit - that 'should' ensure decent seed/soil contact.
So long as your ends are reasonably flat then you can get away without actually having to add lots of loam to them. If you scarify in many directions then you can create a decent tilth on the ends - a bag of loam per end may well be enough then. You could well then have enough loam left to add 1 or 2 bags per track, which would give the seed a bit more of a chance.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Surely another minimum would be worm and weed treatment?
Great debate about seeding in scarifying grooves, it's a good subject to explore on the forum.
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
Not much of a debate there loamy.
The only debate is whether you absolutely need to cover the grooves. My contention would be yes you do - unless you really really can't afford to - as without doing so you're never going to get your levels right.
Regardless of what work you've done during the season your levels are going to be all over the place by the end of the season. Some tracks get used more than others, some get drier, some get more loam kicked out of them etc etc etc. There are many reasons why your levels won't be right - but for certain they wont be. We don't just top dress in order to give the seed something to bind to, mostly (imho) we top dress to re-instate the levels after a season of use.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
dont see a problemn with seeding in scarifying grooves as long as the seed has good contact with soil so seed can germinate better to scarify in different directions one thing to think about is the weather conditions , if its wet the channels could smear inside and any seed will struggle to form a decent root system , by crossing with the scarifier it should help to stop the look off tramlines till the seed blends in with the existing tracks.
Agree on the use of top dressing jl, soil seed contact needs to be top and bottom especially when seed begins to germinate and temperatures plummet overnight- those seedlings need some cover, plus yes the levels need to be redressed. Agree with Gordon that you need to make sure you don't scrimp on the scarification and seed, it's the green we all want to see and plenty of it too. It's a shame Greenfingers is having to prioritise what are after all essentials at this time of year but a sign of the times. I'd also offer that compaction relief is pretty necessary as part of end of season works too even if it is a little later on.
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
Yes Ken, if money is not there for loam, cant cover slits with loam.
I do not treat for worms during renovation. That is done during November usually. Some may need to do it during October.
I never have any weeds at renovation time. If i did i would soon knife them out.
Slits could be closed up a little when damp by using the mowers big roller, tip the front end back, or by using a light hand roller.
I believe that most decompaction actually takes place with swelling and shrinking of the loam.
Spiking will allow air in though and possibly make room for roots to grow.
If using a graden or rotorake, you may find this brings enough loam material to the surface, this could then be drag matted back in if money is tight... not ideal, but a way to save cash, and cover seed over the whole square.
It would depend on how much thatch you pull out though.
We have spent four years bringing a square back from a thatch carpet hell to some sort of order. During this time we scarified the crap out of it
and seeded. We deliberately did not top dress to avoid burying the remaining thatch. The seed we applied was brushed in and it germinated OK. Do you have a sarrel roller? If so you could thoroughly spike to create seed holes- alot of work but works for me when repairing ends.
Maybe spin on the 4 or 5 bags of loam with a fertilizer spreader and drag/ brush in.
Greenfingers.
How close are you to the source of your loam, or do you have a member of the club with access to a lorry?
Loam us MUCH cheaper if you collect it yourself.
In N Lincs we pay about £5.50 a bag, delivered. A group of clubs is trying to organise a collective of Ongar users and we already have enough interest to nearly fill a 20T wagon. 20T is 800 bags, so even if delivery were to cost £400 for the 500 mile circuit to collect and deliver, we would still save about £2 per bag!
Yes, the contractor who normally supplies will lose his profit if we manage to go the collective way, but clubs can't afford to pay 100% delivery charges any more.
The ciderman rolls
Thanks for all the input guys, this renovation work was a train crash waiting to happen because usually the cricket club is not short of money for renovation work.
However, this year the club has over spent on other things and done next to no fund raising to pay for the end of season renovation despite being pre-warned earlier in the season.
The triple was also scheduled to be serviced and that has fallen by the wayside.
I think that this is an opportunity for the club to learn from their mistakes, the hard way!
We do not have a scarifier or sarrel roller so I may go with my original idea, the ends are not too bad level wise, plenty of grass on the strips.
If the Autumn and winter weather are reasonable I may just get away with it, but I don't want the cricket club to get the idea that it is possible to do this work every year, committeees, don't you just love em!
Greenfingers, you are going to set a precedent, they WILL expect this every year. But you are in a difficult position, you want to do the best and not have a complete joke of a square next year but know they will expect you to save the money every year.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
16 Aug 2010 by jlawrence Last edited 16 Aug 2010
JT, the haulage firm may lose a bit of profit - but I bet not much.
The reason haulage is high is because quite often the trucks have to come back empty. The more small runs they need to make the more chance of empty return legs. With one or two big runs, I bet the haulage firm can arrange something coming back - so in the end they might actually make more money not less.
Greenfingers, yes it's possible to get away with it but as you say you don't want the committee thinking that it is something you can do every year. It will take a lot of work to make them understand this, but if they try and skimp every year it will leave them with a poor surface regardless of how much work you put into it.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
I don't mean to pry but how do you carry out end of season renovation
without a scarifier? That is the very least you should do end of season.
We don't have a scarifier and never have had. It's an essential item however. We can maintain a decent surface throughout the season with a sisis brush/rake used daily and extensive scarification during spring wake up work and more importantly autumn renovations. Any decent local tool hire company should provide a decent and sharp scarifier with 4 weeks notice if you book it out for the 7 days after your season finishes. Cost in N Lancs about £50 - 80 for the week maximum. That can easily be shared between several clubs with several angle passes each.
In your circumstances, which seem similar to mine I would mow to the ground and box off at 45 degrees to play direction, hire a scarifier and do 3-6 passes at vaying cross play angles. Pick up debris with a rotory touching the ground and box off (builders big bags help here, perhaps three spaced appropriately). Seed at 20 kg ryegrass per 6-8 decks. Apply say 3-6 bags loam to the 'danger area' of each deck with a spinner/spreader then brush or dragmat everything on the square at least twice then lightly roll to close the scarifier lines. In point of fact we use 7-10 bags per deck.
The wicket ends I would deal with individually with a cordless drill and a blunt half inch bit. Drill to about 1" , seed and brush over. Use minimal loam to cover to avoid saddles but brush in the drillings that come up.
Dont spray for worms, allow them to work for you as your autumn drainage and as an extra scarifier dragmat. On any dry and windy late afternoon during the autumn dragmat or brush the wormcasts into the surface, preferably just before rain so as the sward can be cleaned afterwards if necessary.
Later in the growing season when your loam has melted in and germination is underway cut gently with rotary and box off what little you take. Keep brushing through the winter. Stay off in frozen conditions.
Consider spraying for worms in late winter so that casts are levelled by rain rather than pre season rolling but still taking advantage of their mixing and aeration capabilities between Sept and Feb.
Cost £400 for about 12 decks.
If you're not servicing/maintaining your mowers over the winter at least clean them thoroughly, ensure they are dry, grease every point, clean the reels and bottom blades perfectly and smear every steel surface with grease or oil. Sit mowers off ground level on a pallet covered with an oily sack or blanket and check weekly for rain leaks from the machine shed roof. Start them weekly and understand the temperament of each different engine so you can predict problems. Use this time to reset your vermin traps and ensure your remaining seed has not been consumed or the covers and nets chewed through :-)
17 Aug 2010 by Zippy
"The cricket club is having a bad time financially and have asked me what work can be done on the square at the end of the season to keep costs down."
Simple answer would be not very much. The other question I would put to your club is by not carrying out basic end of season and cutting corners with regards to maintenance are we neglecting duty of care to provide a safe playing surface next season especially if you have lots of juniors etc ?
There are five weeks of the season to go- one club day on a Sunday with bar/bbq/raffle could easily raise the necessary funds to pay for the correct renovations.
Your problem is you need to raise money not shrimp on renovations.
I have been watching this thread and sit here and despair, all clubs are having a tough financial time of it, mine was budgeted to loose £3500 in October of last year when the new treasurer took over, with efficiencies being made, fund raising efforts and 10p on a pint of beer, (carling £2, worthingtons £1.85 still cheap, £25 membership and only a fiver match fee) we are now forcast to break even or even make a profit, we will further reduce costs at xmas when we change utility suppliers. Note to all clubs, make sure you check this, for commercial premises you will stay on the same tariff unless you cancel 90days before renewal. Never in this time was there any question of my hours being cut or me not having what I needed for the square, why because every week our cricket playing members spend 6 hours playing on the pitch and they expect it to be right.
So you have a 10 pitch square so don't skimp on loam buy 80 bags, because 2 pallets costs the same as one and a half to get delivered and lack of loam is not a good idea, 3 bags of seed and hire a scarifier, you should be able to get the loam at 4.50 a bag, seed at £65 a bag and the scarifier from HSS at £42 a day thats £582, if you got together with some other clubs you would get this down, hurrels quoted me 52.50 for their 25kg bags of cricket seed the other day if you buy 10.
So the thing that really gets me is that you should be able, with a bit of ringing round be able to it done reasonabley well for £600 or 11.53 a week, but as usual the square is the last priority when it comes to budgeting, come on sort it out.
You could even get a good contractor in and get it all done really well for between £900 and £1000 and not have the bother at all, but that would require forward planning of course.
18 Aug 2010 by jlawrence Last edited 18 Aug 2010
Similar story here Andy. We were forecasted to make a considerable loss this year - we've made a loss but, due to tightening belts and some extra fundraising, it's no where near what we initially expected.
At no point was my renovation budget under threat. The finance committee's view was simply that "if that's what we need to spend then we've simply got to find it".
Even thought we're feeling the pinch at present, the playing surface comes first - which makes a refreshing change - even so far as replacing old tired out equipment rather than bodging it to get more life out of it.
5 pallets of loam orders, 5 bags of seed and a contractor to do my main square.
It took at little extra work to ensure we'd got the finances to pay for it all, but so what. We knew it had to be done, I gave them plenty of time to raise the funds - and that's exactly what we did.
ADDED:
the reason we're having problems isn't really down to the current financial conditions, but rather due to multiple things failing (like security shutters) - as they happen to do when they're over 25 years old. Poor financial planning in the past has left us in the sh1te today but it'll get sorted and things will be rosey again at some point.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
And the local councils do nothing. Cricket is a leisure activity for local ratepayers. They do nothing to support this.
Very very short sighted. Clubs equally to blame for wanting to be private.
A scandal. No wonder the UK is in such a sorry state...
Wondered when you'd pipe up, still we cant all be lucky enough to live in Utopia.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
For once barry I agree with you, I saw willards usual tosh earlier but didn't have the time to respond.
Come on guys, fair play, my bag is packed and I'm off to work for Rec serv, doing council contracts, it's the future.
Deluded.
Never mind.
Pro clubs in UK also suffer with these symptoms.
Castleford & Wakefield wouldn't share a new RL stadium.
Everton & Liverpool FC's won't share a new stadium.
They want to pay for one themselves, then complain when they can't afford it.
In Aus & NZ, councils provide the facilities. Watch next years Rugby World Cup. All council owned grounds. No fiancial burden for the clubs. Same for cricket & league.
Keep that head buried in the sand...
Willard,
Really interested in coming over to the promised land. Do the company help with getting visas, flights, accommodation as we tend to when we bring lads across to the UK? What are the pay and conditions like? Would it support a family and mortgage? What hours do you work etc etc??????
Trying hard to remove the head...
Ahem
The council own the Liberty Stadium in Swansea, the 3rd largest in Wales and it is shared between Swansea City and the Ospreys.
The Cardiff City Stadium is admittedly owned By Cardiff City AFC but is shared for the next 20 years with the Blues.
Plenty of other groundshare examples out of Wales too :-)
19 Aug 2010 by vid
Australia is well renowned for spending more of their budget on sport provision. Ours are better at spending it on stopping sport provision (or so it would seem). Its all very well making the comparison - but the absolutely huge cost of taking all sport under the council provision will means it can never happen. So Willard, you can always find examples in cases like these to back your own view but the practicalities suggest something else. Do you honestly think with the public finances in the Uk in total disarray at the moment there is going to be an initiative to provide more sport at a local level especially as they are currently spending billions on providing for the olympics. And as for Premier clubs sharing football stadiums - dont be daft.
Our councils do provide a service and a very great many sporting surfaces at very reasonable rates, however the budgets for these are almost always largely absorbed by the human resource, the budget for facility provision seems to come absolutely bottom of the list. I meet many very frustrated council employed groundsmen whose hands are totally tied by bureaucracy, endless risk assessment and a lack of budget. Or council employed contractors who ar working to ridiculously stripped down specifications where quality is just not important.
I agree with others Willard - Utopia in sports provision may be on the other side of this world but it might just as well be on another planet as far as this country is concerned
Indeed Vid - there's no way our councils could even entertain maintaining sports facilities properly, they simply don't have the budget.
Willard, how much do they charge down under to 'rent' these council facilities ?
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
19 Aug 2010 by vid
I think I am as guilty of others here of going a bit off topic.
But Greenfingers I rather think you may fall in to the category of......... 'the wickets been rubbish all year but at least we have sky sports in the clubhouse and new shirts for the first XI - cant we find a better groundsman'!!!!!!!!
Get the bu**ers to dip their hands in to their pockets
Here you go guys - local funding in my area.
http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/news/Groups-let-funding-scrapped/article-2546044-detail/article.html
I was hoping to dip in to that £145K over winter. The issue appears to be that there is no statutory requirement for the councils to fund these community activities.
Meanwhile, for the quality of council run pitches in Scotland, I refer you to Skippy's post (and my observation on the quality of "pub league" pitches - Council run - in England).
The NZ method sounds great, but I guess it needs the nation to be fully committed to participation in sport. UK has low participation committment I suggest - high spectatorship, but low participation. If only 1% of tax payers play cricket, why should the other 99% support the 1%?
The ciderman rolls
Yep . copy the Kiwi way. 2 games sharing one outfield at premier league level, thats the way forward
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
I would rather share 1 sand built & pop irrigated outfield than have my own sub standard expensive to run version...
I can't remember the fees clubs to pay to hire facilities.
But I remember being very surprised at their price.
Considering I used to work in contract maintenance in UK, the average cricket contract was about £10K-£15K per year.
It is something like $5K, £2.5K. Couldn't believe it. Superb.
I don't think the administrators of sports bodies let alone councils get it right in UK. There is too much professional sport. Too much money spent running that...
You don't need 92 full time football clubs. Reserve grade cricket & rugby comps full time paid.
If the standard of council provided facilities were better, players could move through the grades, without much difference in pitch standards.
Each premier club in the Auckland comp has one or two provincial players plus the odd Black Cap.
Playing on council park grounds then moving onto council owned stadiums isn't much different. Neither is the attitude of the player. Black cap or not.
Pro sport in UK is very ringfenced, and so is the finances that back it up.
As Michael Vaughan says, no one moves through the grades in UK...
Good to see Wales looking at things differently, trouble is, the English tax payer is funding it!
If Inter & Milan can share the council owned San Siro, and Lazio & Roma can share the council owned Olympic Stadium, why can't UK follow suit?
They (NZ Goverment) aren't very keen on dishing out work permits/visas at the moment cos they think unemployment is high (6.8%). Joke, because we always struggle to find skilled staff. 5% of the pop are always going to be dole bluggers...
20 Aug 2010 by A J
I did the san siro stadium tour a couple of years ago, the day before the inter/ac game. I couldn`t believe the state of the pitch! it was patchy, rock hard and not a lot of work going on considering this was the big one!! and on sky. I did notice a small garden looking tractor with a brush on the back in the car park, That was it. The tour gide explained that it was there policy to relay the pitch up to six times a season. And were due to dig it up after the match! and it was only september.....
The rest of the tour was good and was impressed with there very low prices for that game 18 euros for a ticket. Unfortunatley we were leaving the same day. Score 0-0 Guest what!! - press blamed the state of the pitch. I wonder why....
That kind of set up would never work in the uk.
Grow in grace...........
Anyone else fancy playing on a shared outfield apart fro Willard? What a joke
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
I have to say the shared outfield is one thing I don't like the idea of. Down under isn't the only place that does it though - India do too.
I wouldn't like to be the one to right the risk assessment for using share outfields nor the one trying to persuade the insurance company to give cover.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
We would not be allowed to do it here and reasonably so. One of my sons played at Auckland and said it was a nightmare. Its bad enough playing at grounds which have a shared boundary.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Used to be the case in Rugby when I played down there. One of the council grounds had two overlapping pitches for the midweek league. That was last century though.
The ciderman rolls
Glynn: one of your sons played there. Doesn't affect Black Caps. See previous posts about players attitude. You are the joke.
I've seen both countries different ways of funding sporting facilities. I know which one works better.
I'm not the one scrabbling around for a couple of bags of seed & soil, which is what the post is about.
San Siro maybe not the best example of council owned ground. But Wembley is privately owned & the surface no better. Might be something to do with shade...
Feel free to check out all the council owned stadiums in Australia & NZ. Excellent surfaces. And they host Cricket, Football, League & Rugby.
20 Aug 2010 by Sumomosr Last edited 20 Aug 2010
Good grief Glynn!
Your attitude is the reason English cricket is at such a low ebb and your location in Surrey is possible cause for the poor showing at the Oval in the Test thus far.
All of Auckland cricket must have breathed a sigh of relief at the long-awaited departure of your son -surely the quintessential Whinging Pom - and the whole country celebrates with a National Holiday.
Let me illuminate your life on the world of shared outfields:
"Reasonably so"? What's 'reasonable' about denying kids the opportunity to play organised sport?
Playing on shared outfields is not a 'joke'. Far from it. It creates seriously intense cricket minds. I grew up playing cricket on shared outfields in NZ and relished the competitiveness, camerarderie, companionship and conversation with players in the adjoining game.
Kids are never 'banished' to the boundary where they can lose interest in the game - On a shared outfield they have to remain alert and are encouraged to perform to high levels. The need to impress the neighbouring games players is almost greater than the need to impress your own team-mates.
Interference from the neighbouring match is virtually non-existant and every-body is watching out for each other - if necessary play is halted briefly in one game while a fielder chases a drive to the boundary, or all players watch an attempt at a high catch, congratulate or commiserate as appropriate and then get on with their game. Morale is high, and at senior levels bar takings after the game are improved when players can mix and mingle with more to talk about than just their own teams performance.
Incidence of injury in cricket is by far and away less than in soccer and rugby and injury due to 'overlapping incidents' virtually unheard of so don't give us the H&S arguement. How on earth you can complain about having even a shared boundary proves that even fresh air can offend your elitist upturned nose.
Analysis of an outfield will show that there are vast areas which are never walked on during a game and greater areas which suffer just occasional foot-fall. The case for overlapping boundaries at club level is well proven down -under and your blinkered attitude will hold your sport back much to the delight of Ashes fans all over Australia.
And stop confusing Pitchacre with Faceblog or Twatter where most of your posts belong.
Harrrumpf!
And to get back on track - Greenfingers: You must scarrify at the very least and Bath has a good scheme in his first post. But your clubs financial plight is symptomatic of the scenario. It is costing you money to mow outfield grass that no-one ever walks on.
GOGGA
I hope Glynn or any of his other sibblings don't make it out here.
I don't think I could take his shared outfield phobia!
And the constant whingeing...
No worries there mate. He'd never be able to share an arm-rest on the plane...
GOGGA
Sweet.
21 Aug 2010 by Sumomosr Last edited 21 Aug 2010
And there'd be flight attendents grabbing beers and jumping out of escape hatches ...
GOGGA
True.
21 Aug 2010 by vid
So whoopee do NZ supports shared outfields. Apart from building the squares and changing the way we play in the Uk which would be expensive it would never get past the H &S inspectorate, they would consider it just too dangerous to have people with their backs turned to another game in close proximity. The responsibility of the officials to maintain safety would mean the games could only be played with each match bowling alternate balls, which if one game was bowling spin and the other pace would make the games impossibly long.
We might be accused of being whingeing Poms whilst baffled at this loss of sanity on the cricket field when visiting NZ and I'm sure its ok for you guys as there is not much to damage when suffering a blow to the head............ you see now you're annoyed. But so far Willard and more surprisingly Sumo have gone for a fairy tale ending that really belongs in LaLa land and are putting accross a completely blinkered point of view without considering the financial, political and administrative difficulties we have pointed out here. This I dont think opens up any avenues for good discussion and when it becomes nationally offensive, goes beyond banter and serves no useful purpose, I may be alone but otherwise sound sense of humour fails at this point.
And as for Wembly no council anywhere in the world would have spent what they have spent (millions) trying to put the surface right. Most would just leave it as it is and tell the players that there is nothing wrong with it - just get on and play. The reason the premiership sides dont share is that the number of games played would not be possible in a shared stadium in this climate, no matter what the surface. Apart from that the majority have plenty of money to establish these high quality stadiums. No having them or having them supplied by government would not improve play one single bit, would cost the tax payer billions and would be paid for out of the sports provision budget - who would want that. As has been stated there is a very small percentage of the population who participate in any one sport. Excessive amounts paid to an individual sport would be an unfair and unbalanced use of the taxpayers money
Stick with what you got. It works great...
The original post proves it.
21 Aug 2010 by vid Last edited 21 Aug 2010
Willard climb down will you - there are 1000s of cricket clubs in England that are not supported by councils that manage very well and therefore should - not become a burden on the tax payer. There are also 1000s of schools and council facilities that people play on as well. There are schemes such as chance to shine that are pumping millions into schools and clubs to introduce the game. There are millions of pounds being pumped into the game to improve our stadia and millions more into the game itself. There is never enough money, there is always room for better facilities, there are always clubs that dont get it together and struggle.
There are small clubs around where the players are quite happy to spend up to £50 to go and WATCH football but when it comes to financing their own sport think it can all be done for a fiver. Those that can pay over here are asked to contribute but equally those that cant can get in to the sport as well - that is a good fair system I reckon.
Cricket in the UK is doing very nicely at the moment and funding has increased dramatically since interest has revived with the advent of 20/20 and 40/40. Picking one or two examples of a club that is struggling isnt a very good argument. Anyone who wants to play cricket in this country can and relatively cheaply as well - no more expensive to play than a lot of other sports. Is there enough facilities in NZ to go round everyone - obviously not if you have to share facilities all over the place.If I was you I would get on to your council and get them to provide proper safe facilities that can be enjoyed by every standard of cricketer rather than coming on here and pointing the finger at a country that supplies individual grounds for all teams. How utterly appauling that your councils expect you to endanger yourselves by supplying such half baked dangerous facilities
I've never played on a ground with overlapping outfields. But I've played on games with shared boundaries and it's f'in scary at times.
I really relish the idea of someone smacking balls at my back NOT - whether they hit or not.
As for kids having to pay more attention. More attention to what ?? I couldn't give a toss about them paying attention to what is going on behind them - I want them paying attention to our game not some other one.
The fact that it works down under isn't in question - obviously it does. But then so does cutting a hedge sat on a mower suspended from a crane - it doesn't make it safe but it does work.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
I stand corrected, shared outfield are the way forward,just look at NZ top standing in world cricket, speaks for itself.
Oh and btw,my names Barry, Glynn is the surname,just in case you found that difficult to work out.
Keep going guys, its great entertainment "shared outfields are the best".
You 2 are a complete joke, very sad
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
What I find most amusing is the focus on shared outfields.
The funding plans that I have illustrated from Australia & New Zealand show how facilities are paid for by the council, relieving the actual sports clubs of the financial worry.
The standards are very high, from grassroots to stadia.
The machines we can use & sportsfields we construct are of the most modern I've witnessed.
Back in the UK everything I used & worked on was a bit old & tired. Be it a pro football club or amateur cricket club. Money was a big problem. Old machines were standard, pitch & block specs low.
In NZ we have to fit cricket onto existing football, league or rugby fields, some grounds have overlapping boundaries.
To focus on that one issue demonstrates why the UK is going backwards. That is sad.
Glynn: New Zealand turf managers are at the top of the cricket world. Their services have been contracted all over the world.
As for the playing standard, it's pretty good considering the population is only 4.3 million people.
The UK is nearing 70 million on the same land mass, so you would expect much greater funding (ie tax revenues) & greater performance (number of participants).
But it's never happened. That's sad Glynn me old mucker...
22 Aug 2010 by vid
Willard I dont know when you were last here but since then all the New Zealand cricket groundsmen must have gone home as I dont know 1 and I get around a fair few cricket clubs, However it seems one of our greatest whingers now resides in NZ and spends his time selling the virtues of dangerous practices that proliferate in his new country of preference. if there were a statistic of how many facilities per head of population there were I doubt there would be much diffrence - why dont you just agree to disagree. I'm quite certain that the professionalism and standards of both countries is equally good. and those that volunteer their services for free or for very little return in providing sport for their communities (in whatever capacity) would appreciate a little less criticism from people who appear to be ignorant of what they do.
At this level where government funding is often unavailable as it serves too few people (often communities of less than 200), volunteers are the only reason these clubs stay alive - ie virtually no cost to anyone.
At the top level - counties - the pitches and facilities have improved remarkably. The top premier cricket clubs have been improving their 'blocks', machinery and clubhouses as more money becomes available.
I would much rather be involved with clubs that work within their communities and within their own means rather than are spoon fed by their local councils
22 Aug 2010 by willard Last edited 22 Aug 2010
Vid: Turf managers stretch far beyond club level cricket in England. I'm talking worldwide. You talk complete nonsense. Councils make up the very fabric of a community. As a member of your local community. You pay rates. The council then uses some of this money to provide sports facilities. The clubs then don't have the burden. Also the standard provided is very high, spec wise & machinery wise.
Plus the spec is monitored by each sport's governing body, usually by a contracted agronomist/consultant.
Why you can't grasp these FACTS is starting to wear a bit thin.
Stick to what you know. Because it's all you know.
How you can comment on the turf funding within Australia/NZ, when you know nothing about it is beyond me.
Experience it. Then judge it.
Jamie Smith. in 2008 we employed a young Kiwi groundsman for a season. We flew him across, housed him and flew him back to NZ. He is the best groundsman I know, but his manager in NZ is English. It seems the company are always looking for UK labour, why when Kiwi's are market leaders? Who pays for your flights Jamie, who pays for your house Jamie, how much do you earn Jamie?
This debate is of no use what so ever just different views, you are happy, Barry is happy, if you hate the UK so much why continue to visit this site and complain about everything over here as you have nothing to offer.
Don't get so upset about a debate purely regarding funding differences...
Don't get so hung up about shared outfields or multi use stadia.
The main reason I continue to bang the funding drum is because the author of this article illustrates the shortfalls that are apparent in England. I know. I suffered too. But in Pro & Amatuer sports. It is very frustrating. My greatest fear is not getting permenant residency in NZ & having to return to UK.
Dragging out old certes mowers, sisis rotorakes & lawnmans. Dealing with thatchy blocks that aren't level. And no funding to fix it. Would be a real step backwards.
Looking from afar, the author is struggling to find around £750 to do his end of season renovation. That is very sad. I feel sorry for him & his members.
Maybe if UK could follow the Australia/NZ model this wouldn't be the case. I have found it to work very well.
What I have found amusing is the reaction to alternative funding, ie council, from people on this website. OK it is just the vocal minority, but it is still amusing.
Like the old phrase says, you can lead a horse to water...
Regarding NZ Turf Managers. Very sort after. Can earn more in Australia or Asia. Hence vacancies do open up in their home market.
Comparing with the UK market, salary & cost of living similar, but quality of life weigh better.
Getting funding from councils & sporting bodies would be my priority in the UK. The money is there, but the focus isn't.
Councils will happily let clubs take up the slack. They have got plenty more schemes to waste money. I don't think ratepayers get value for money in the sporting environment. Judging by the vocal minority onboard here, you don't want it to change anyway. No worries then...
It's a bit like, why is a litre of unleaded 77p in NZ compared to 118p in UK?
Either no one knows, or no one cares...
willard
Ive got some very good Aussie and Kiwi mates but there are some traits that,like anywhere else I suppose, can come through. I.e, "everything here is great and every other country is a waste of space".
Funny how so many come over here then isnt it?
Turn all the grounds into council run and have shared outfields, great. I suppose theres never been an accident with the shared outfield eh? As for the councils, its one thing sorting out funding when you only have 4 million people and a couple of major roads to worry about but slightly different over here
Why come on here at all when all you want to do is to use it as a vehicle for slagging off the UK? And you had the bare faced nerve to suggest I was better suited to twitter, you re a scream man.
My understanding according to my other son who traveled there this year, is that NZ is a beautiful country,empty and quiet, sounds lovely to me. Just enjoy it mate and keep your bitter rantings about the UK to yourself.
You turned a polite inquiry from a struggling club into another rant against the UK, grow up pal.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Reread all the above posts. Never mentioned twitter. Don't use it or face book.
My postings are strictly about funding sports facilities.
With or without shared outfields!
Lets hope the author of this article can get outside funding (ie Council or Sporting Body) to complete his renovations.
Cricket, Football, League & Rugby clubs make just as much contribution as swimming pools or librarys as a leisure & community facility.
Shame they aren't funded in the same way.
Barry, you need to ask the real question. Just why is Jamie so against everything in the UK grounds maintenance regime? The answer is simple and easy to see.
22 Aug 2010 by vid Last edited 22 Aug 2010
Willard - just what are you trying to get out of this, insulting me as you quite plainly have in your last post referring to me, is to insult a whole country worth of groundsmen. By your very own words you have got things very misguided in your mind. No I havent been to New Zealand however I have been at pains in my last post to praise their groundsmen as I do my own countrys.
However I am 50 years old and have seen and read plenty and am well aware of what goes on and have had quite a few professional conversations with curators and practitioners the world over and specifiacally in NZ and Oz - it is exteremly presumptuous of you to 'know' otherwise. I travel extensively and widely around my own country and I think I deserve a bit more consideration for my views than you are projecting. I do not have to visit to make my own mind up on shared outfields as this must be terribly distracting to the players and without doubt dangerous - it cannot be anything but so, as I would consider a shared boundary as not without risk. You have no right to question my point of view like this - by all means disagree but dont come on here and insult me.
The fact that you obviously left the UK with quite some issues and a very obvious chip on your shoulder does not obscure the fact that you just dont want to listen to anything said in this thread. I have enormous respect for all practitioners of our trade the world over, I dont know you personally but you quite evidently have a great passion for turf management and I am sure you are an asset to whoever might employ you in this respect.
Damning us in the UK generally like this when quite obviously we dont agree and the system here is just not the same as can be found in NZ will end up with you looking foolish in our eyes. Enlightened and considered dialogue is always welcome as how else can anyone move forward and learn anything new. I have learnt from you that these shared outfields are obviously quite widespread - that is an additional peice of information I didnt know before - something you as a newcomer to NZ have taught me. The fact that this is accepted practise in NZ is another. I personally dont agree that they could become commonplace over here - the H & S considerations would make it impossible - that is something I can tell you. Your information on what the councils provide and the state of our playing fields is lagging behind the times somewhat. Someone asking for a bit of help to organise renovations for a cash strapped club is just how it is in this particular case. There will be others - however every year tens of thousands of cricket pitches are in use the country over and I would say 90% of them or more are very well looked after indeed - the fact that you had a bad experience here is unfortunate if not a bit sad for you to export to your new homeland.
I have no reason to doubt your contemporary knowledge of your adopted country. Your doubting of my knowledge is belittling you and extremely insulting to me and you are in danger of insulting the wordliness of your fellow countrymen (that you are obviously proud of). Should I therfore assume that the curators who post on here that have teir roots in the UK but practise in France, Norway, America, S Africa, Australia and (yes) New Zealand have no right to any respect from you. I am not so sure that your colleagues in NZ will appreciate your continued inability to have an open dialogue with us
Is there an on-line site where we can vote for Willard to get his citizenship? I'm up for it. The NZ councils must surely fund such a popularity polling site. They appear to magically fund everything else.
BTW. Did anyone else notice that he doesn't know what clubs pay to use these wonderful facilities? Talks a good game, but no knowledge of the economics??
The ciderman rolls
My dialogue has been purely about funding.
My observation is the NZ system is far superior.
The rest of you have questioned grounds methods.
Choosing to focus on shared outfields instead of the obvious advantages of debt free well maintained sports facilities.
My suggestion is to reread this whole article. Then draw your conclusion.
My conclusion is thus: If you don't agree with the way sports facilities are funded in the UK. We don't want to know. Then take anything that is offered differently as a personal attack on our groundsman skills.
Harden up.
Taylor - the answer is given in a previous post.
Willard, if NZ and Aus is so great, why are you not on the Pitchcare Oceana site talking to like minded " down under" groundsman??
Maybe you do have a point about funding, so offer a solution to "our" problem, rather than just saying it is crap, you have seen how it works in NZ, how could it work in the UK, who would pay for it and how much would it cost?
I do not want to see an increase in my taxes so some snotty nosed kid can play cricket on a "superb" council run pitch, if he wants to play sport let him join a club and support that through their own subs etc, often it is the sports clubs that are at the centre of communities, by turning control over to the councils this would quite possibly take away any identity that communities have, and any control over the actual running of there own club.
Don't worry, I am hoping for some AUS/NZ feedback on here. The straight talking on that site is great. I would like to see it repeated here...
Informative but also very funny.
Don't get me started on taxes.
UK cost of living high.
Standard of delivery low.
No one minds or does anything about it.
Willard, we do mind, but most are not in a position to do much about it.
It's still the best country in the world though, despite it's faults.
I thought councils were supposed to provide for communities.
The two should go hand in hand...
We will agree to disagree. Enjoy your day. Time to crack open a cold one...
They do, Hyde Park , Green Park, Kensington Gdns to name a few + 1000's of other "amenities" all over the country, some big some small, but all to be enjoyed, free of charge to 70 odd million people in the UK, + the millions of visitors each year.
23 Aug 2010 by A J
That`s better fellers, best way - Don`t know about a cold one! we just putting the kettle on (up & over) 
Grow in grace...........
23 Aug 2010 by vid Last edited 23 Aug 2010
Who is this 'we' Willard so far just 1 person has any support for your position. You are not discussing anything. I think it is you who should reread this thread as there is plenty of discussion on the funding aspect but you have not acknowledged anybody elses point of view. I have tried to reason with you so this topic can be discussed but you appear to only want to score points.
Your dialogue has been anything but 'purely about funding'. Telling me I am talking rubbish is not a dialogue, nor is telling us to look at the facts when you havent really given us any and when asked for specifics you dont reply.
If all your grounds, and I mean all, are maginificent and clubs are paying less for their facilities than here and they are satisfied with the quality, and they are happy sharing grounds, and they are happy not to have unshared grounds, and they all have brand new equipment, and the communities are all happy that this money is spent like this, and they dont have any fixture clashes, and there are more grounds per capita than here, and there is more council provision per capita than here, and there is more actual input from funding sources per club than here and that your Stadia are all vastly superior than here, and that your Groundsmen are all better qualified and respected than here and there is at least one FACT that you can actually give us in support for all this, and you can actually stop whingeing and bullying your way through this thread and that you can stop insulting every groundsman in New Zealand by your continued rudeness....... then and only then will you begin to gain the respect of posters on here.
In my job I talk to groundsmen from all over the S half of the UK (FACT) - I supply and advise grounds from council owned ones to privately owned ones to international venues (FACT) - not only in cricket but in all sports. If your system is as you say then a lot of them would be happy to be funded by the government and yes a lot would be envious of your funding. But Willard and this is a big but, and you have been told several times over, THE FACT IS (YES THE FACT WILLARD) is the system here could not support that amount of change it would be incredibly expensive - the Councils do not own these clubs (FACT) and never will because most, in FACT nearly all, provide excellent facilities and are happy with their autonomy. The worst facilities are generally provided by councils as there is no will from councils to spend more taxpayers money on sport. Councils are involved in the very core of our society (FACT) and one of their provisions is sport (FACT). They also spend millions on funding and helping to fund independant clubs to renew, upgrade and supply new equipment and machinery(FACT). The government, lottery and the ECB have spent 100s of millions of pounds recently upgrading cricket stadia and clubs (FACT). Noone here wants to share grounds they all like having their own (FACT).
My local club (village) has had a new mower, new score board, new match pitch wicket - all supplied in the last 2 years with funding from these sources and has no problem with renovations or funding for themselves, has its own enclosed ground and shares the rest of the ground with 4 other sports - they have over 100 playing cricket members in 3 mens leagues and 4 junior leagues.
My son plays for another club (town) they have 2 grounds, 4 mens teams, 1 womens team and 5 junior leagues, no other sport is played on the pitches and they share the ground with 2 other sports. The £1/4 million astro was provided by central government and sport funding. Another 1.5 million is about to be spoent on a new club house. The main cricket pitch has just been completely relaid by the ECB and the ECB has funded the irrigation system that has been installed - all in te last 3 years. The club has no problem running itself and the renovations are already ordered for next week when the season finishes on the main pitch. My son (14 years old) costs me £120 per annum with no extra match fee charges unless he plays for the mens team when he pays £5 - he plays @ 30 matches a year indoor and outdoor - thats pretty good value - but is more expensive than most. No cricketer anywhere that is playing regular cricket pays much more than £15 per game total, a lot pay less.
Those are all facts and I have backed them with examples, they do have a mix of old and new, they do make the most of what they have got - thats just getting value for money - not wasting it on unwarranted replacement.
Personally - and this is my opinion not fact - I dont feel any need to change it and I dont want my favourite sport to be at risk to the whim of government, the majority of funding comes from other independant sources. If the councils are short of money here sport always suffers, prove to me that is not the case in NZ. I would reckon, but then its not my argument so you Willard find the facts, that funding is equally good in both countries - just supplied differently. The fact that NZ is able to supply it from one source is fantastic for them but not possible (see above) for the UK. Saying it is superior is purely rhetorical and pure conjecture without proof. Again personally in these circumstances I think it is rather irrelevant.
Come on Willard you are the one that has made this argument and so far you have only supplied hearsay evidence with not one single piece of actual fact even when you have been asked for it. Telling us how superior everything is in NZ is cutting no ice with us because you provide no actual facts or examples. The 2 examples I have given are just ordinary clubs. By using the word 'we' you are dragging all NZ groundsmen in to this argument - I have no doubt that like here they are all very good at their jobs, very professional, very knowledgeable and very passionate about sport. Do they all know how to prepare cricket here in the UK any better than we would know how to prepare cricket in NZ - I have my doubts just as I doubt they feel educationally, professionally or morally superior either.
One thing I would suggest is grow covers.
In NZ we use the black ones. Cover the whole block.
Results have been superb. Seed strike great. Protects from washout & birds.
Haven't had to overseed in the spring. Saves money big time.
I'm fully converted. Have renovated 16 grass blocks the last two autumns & haven't had to redo one of them.
And that's from zero coverage on a freshly koroed off block.
Great result.
23 Aug 2010 by vid
Gosh Ive never heard of that before, please send some pictures I would love to see a grow cover. Is it expensive?
Vid - all seems rosy where you are well done. That wasn't my experience when working in UK.
Money always held clubs back (amatuer & pro).
I was never comfortable with the quality of surfaces prepared. Not just cricket, but football too.
I have found working in NZ that I get more 'can do' than 'can't afford it'. I might have just been unlucky when working in UK. But is was a broad spectrum of clubs...
Good on ya.
Again, in the UK, couldn't afford it.
They do appear cheaper to buy in NZ.
Just my experience.
23 Aug 2010 by vid
At the end of the day if the members do not want to support their own club financially then why should the wider community. Cricket is not cheap to prepare or run so those wishing to play it should expect to pay correspondingly more. Currently that does not seem to be the case with a lot of clubs. If those playing dont want to pay for it why should they expect to carry on playing.
What pissed me off in the UK. Was a couple of clubs played on council owned land, the councils would advertise these clubs as facilities for the community to use, but wouldn't contribute one jot.
Whereas in NZ, all grounds (including stadia) are on council owned land, and the councils step up to the responsibility of maintaining them. Supported by whatever sporting body plays on them. Cricket, Football, League or Rugby.
Works well. Everybody seems happy. Groundsman included.
I do think sport makes up a vitual part of the community. If people pay their rates, they should expect something in return.
Vid - you obviously have a different take on things to me. Fair enough.
But if someone asked me which system works better, I would say the NZ module delivers a better outcome.
That's just my opinion formed from working within both systems.
You should allow people to have different views. Yours works for you. Mine works for me.
End of story.
But I would advocate the use of grow covers either way...
Willard,
What about those who pay their rates but dont enjoy sport? what about those who pay their rates but cant play sport for whatever reason? do these not get a say in how their rate money is spent?
My " sport " may be driving a 4x4 over rocks and through mud, are the councils going to fund this? why should field sports just get the cream??
What about fishing? huge numbers fish, will these be funded?
I believe tax payers in the UK would rather money was spent on making our parks and streets safer for everyone to enjoy, rather than subsidising a select few sports with modern stadiums.
23 Aug 2010 by vid
Well Willard finally we agree on something. I dont doubt that the NZ system works very well in New Zealand and thats where your argument should have rested - it just cant happen here unless the whole system comes crashing down and we have to start again - bar a war with NZ where NZ wins i cant see that happening any time soon!!
Good luck Willard and try not to tell us how we think - ask us instead - its much more fruitful and less painful
cheers
Some people don't go to libraries, swimming pools, gyms, parks & community events. Doesn't mean you don't fund them.
Willard, I've a Q which I can't find the answer for.
How many cricket club/grounds are there in Nz.
In UK there are approx 8000 clubs (approx 2000 of which aren't affiliated to ECB). Now not all are going to have their own grounds, but I'd guess that there'll be somewhere around 4000->5000 grounds - that's a heck of a lot for councils to fund.
I found something online saying there are 500 'teams' in the NZ Northern District. Given that many clubs will have at least 2 teams you're looking at no more than 200 clubs. Assuming that's the same for east/south/west, you're only looking at some 800 clubs.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
There are six provinces: Auckland, Wellington, Canterbury, Northern Districts, Central Districts & Otago.
But the argument doesn't hold because NZ only has a 4.3 million population. UK has 70 million. The tax revenue would cover the increase in clubs.
I think we've covered every base.
23 Aug 2010 by Mike
Yes, but the tax revenue, albeit larger in the uk, has to cover more overheads due to the volume of people... costs more to provide health care to 70 million as opposed to 4.3 million, costs more to maintain roads that are used by so many more people, costs more to provide education for so many more people, costs more to provide and maintain the armed forces that we are blessed to have etc.
Rather than talking in quantative data in relation to population, you need to look at percentages ie how much, in terms of a percentage of their total tax revenue do the government/ local councils spend in this area - once you have this percentage, you have something to have a stab at, but by purely relying on population to ascertain how much tax revenue should be spent on the provision of sports is ignorance at its finest.
Mike
percentages, in theory, could well be pretty equal. But untill I knew roughly how many clubs there were it was impossible to even guess at percentages.
given that there are only 4.3M people in Nz in order to have say 1200 clubs there would be a much higher percentage of people playing cricket than here in the UK (by my reckoning).
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
percentages, in theory, could well be pretty equal. But untill I knew roughly how many clubs there were it was impossible to even guess at percentages.
given that there are only 4.3M people in Nz in order to have say 1200 clubs there would be a much higher percentage of people playing cricket than here in the UK (by my reckoning).
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Theres 3 times more people just in London but he probably doesnt know that.
Just imagine the councils running sport in the UK anyway, be a joke, we dont even have enough money to repair our billions of miles of roads, let alone provide top sports facilities.
In any case, I will say this, Oz and probably NZ place a higher importance on Sport than we do here, successive Governments have shown that here
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Purleeeeeessssssssssssseeeeeeeee... this is worse than a lack of knowledge Wembley post...... well done to the few with sore heads and dented walls.....
2 very different countries in terms of population, government AND climates....
And at the end of the day we have far more mongolian one legged lesbian outreach workers to pay for than the kiwis.....
Its life but it works..
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
23 Aug 2010 by trubs
NZ may only have 6% of our population, but I found them to be 57% happier with 72% less crime and 157% better Rugby Team.
Trubs, no one is arguing about that, at my age,NZ sounds a nice place to live. Not so sure if it is if you are 22, thats why a lot like to travel to Europe cos NZ is pretty quiet.
Mr.Pace, very politically incorrect but true. 
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11057612
Trouble in Paradise???????
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
Barry
At least they are trying to do something about it, unlike the UK
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
JLawrence - I will try and get back to you re number of clubs. I know participation rates are high. I know NZ has the highest number of golf courses per capita.
Barry Pace - No more questions your honour. You nailed it in one!
Travelling to Europe is called doing your OE. Overseas experience. Being over 2000KM from your nearest neighbour, means you have to get out once in a while before you croak!
Enjoy the remainder of the Northern Hemisphere summer. Send it down here in a couple of months...
Willard, having a high participation rate (not just in cricket but other sports as well) would be one reason why councils would be willing to fund things. One very major disadvantage in the UK would be the low participation rates - councils really shouldn't (though often they do) provide services just for minority interests.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
24 Aug 2010 by mwood
Maybe participation would be higher in the UK if facilities were better or well maintained or subsidised by the government? however I am sure our climate has a lot to do with it!
The climate, well in the South East, compares rather well.
I was doing some research.
Auckland, NZ. Mean Temp 15c, Rainfall 1200mm Sun 2000 hrs
Wisley, Surrey. Mean Temp 10c, Rainfall 600mm, Sun 1500 hrs.
Summary: Auckland twice as much rainfall, but 33% more sun & 50% higher mean temp.
You can't always the blame the weather!
Do a month by month Willard, that would be a better and fairer rather than an annual comparison.
e.g, if rain in NZ is pretty average throughout the year but in the UK it all falls in a period of 6 or 7 months, then weather does make a difference.
Although way off topic from the OP I wonder if cricket is played a lot more in school in Nz when compared to here.
Also, if the various grounds are shared with football the seasons mustn't overlap the same as they do here.
Many of our youngsters have to make a choice between playing football or cricket because football has basically become a year round sport now rather than just a winter sport.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Yes... totally the same, a bit like saying Ireland having double the rainfall and less hours sun is the same climate... Tsk..
We best start growing Kiwis and Avacados then....
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
25 Aug 2010 by A J
Don`t forget the bananas too. So We can throw the skins in the hole when they lift the cricket sqaure out of the middle of the football pitch with the crane.....
Grow in grace...........
Yes Jon, football is year round here now really. Even 10 year olds are made to "train" in June by the sad twonks who run their teams.Perhaps thats why you now get 15 year olds with cartilage problems.
I wonder if Willard is aware of the term, economies of scale? it doesnt follow that just because you have more people paying tax, you have more to spend on everything does it?
Anyway, pointless making logical observations with someone who has tunnel vision
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
26 Aug 2010 by willard Last edited 26 Aug 2010
JLawrence - The sports calendar is more conventional in NZ.
April - September: Rugby/League
Late October - March: Cricket
Only soccer is played year round because the pro version has to fit in with FIFA. Popular with kids. Not so traditional.
So cricket is the main summer sport.
Willard that seems pretty much the same as here - ie only football (soccer) is played year round.
I flat refuse to let my youngster do football training during the summer months - fortunately he'd rather be at cricket training than football.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Jon, 2 angles.... if they are any good (as in more than pub or Sunday League potential) they need to be fit all year round now... mine had 2 weeks before starting off season training
And what are all those coaches gonna do for 2 months... harass you cricket boys lol?
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
Barry, yes they need to be 'fit' all year round. But, I'd hope that cricket training would help in that as well.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Thats the problem, coaches. Jobs worth many of them. Soccer ones need paying all summer, cricket ones in winter nets for months because they need paying all winter
Sorry Gordon, beg to differ. I coached at club and county in the nineties, now some 15 years later our club firsts have many of the lads who were then U.13's playing for them. Also here I come across lads who used to be in the junior county sides enjoying their recreational cricket, all those years later. So think coaches do a fine job in the main.
I paid my own money to gain qualifications, why should I not get paid when qualified? Never charged my own club - Challow & Childrey CC - I add.
Cricket training............. you stand around in a field all day and clout a ball 
12 year old kids do not need to train for 11 months a year, its bullsh*t perpetrated by mainly sad frustrated idiot junior football managers.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
I was very careful with my words and did say many of them Vic, not all though. Some are very good and yes they should be paid. However, if coaches are to earn a living all year round they have to coach all year round. In reality do kids need all this coaching, especially cold winter nights. I dont even want to go out and take them, let alone take part.
My theory is that during the cricket season kids and adults for that matter play. No point messing too much with technique during that time as you risk destroying them and their confidence. From Sept-New Year go and play football, rugby, hockey, netball what ever and forget about cricket. Jan - Easter regular coaching. Work on the technical skills and the team spirit to see them through the season. Get the bowlers actions sorted, repetition of shot grooving, players understanding their own games, small sided competitions and games, gaining their concentration, control, confidence & commitment (good ECB training). We all know what p*ss poor performance leads to and you have to be structured, no good just turning up in April and being left behind.
I never earned a living from coaching but I did have some very good holidays and I worked hard to achieve them.
Anything than just 100% football/soccer has got to be better for kids to develop mentally & physically.
I don't consider the likes of Wayne Rooney a role model for kids on or off the pitch...
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