hi people is it ok to cut the wicket we are playing on saturday then spray it for worms. Is it ok to spray if it stays dry for 24 hours and what ratio do i mix carbenzium with water in a 20 litre sprayer for worms thanks andy.
Hello Andyroo,
All the required info you are asking for should be written in the label on the bottle.
L.K.B
24 Aug 2010 by A J Last edited 24 Aug 2010
![Ringer[1].jpg](http://media.pitchcare.com/L/8xS3nm6QTnpAIoS16Yat.jpg "Ringer[1].jpg") |
Grow in grace...........
dont be miserable 80ml in 20ltrs over 200 sqm gives dose off 4lts/ha cut first
Personally i wouldn't be spraying for worms. I would just brush them off / switch cane.
You will soon be arriving to your end of season renovations and you could programme it into the close of season.
Cheers
L.K.B
24 Aug 2010 by vid
Sculler noones being miserable, each product can potentially be very different even if using the same active ingredient. Never recommend an application rate without knowing the product concerned - Carbendazim comes in liquid and powder form and in several different concentrations and with several different carriers. The application rate and water quantity can vary between products. Andyroo needs to find out the coverage and dilution rate for his product and also the recommended usage, plus be in possession of an application certificate (PA1 - 6) for the equipment (even a watering can) he intends to use in order to stay within the Law
like Lee I wouldn't bother spraying at this time of year. I'd expect to be spraying carb some time around late Oct / early Nov.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
24 Aug 2010 by mario
Yes, Vid.
It always worries me when posters come on asking about application rates, especially as part of the spraying certification courses specifically deals with the understanding and calculating of dose rates.
I know no boundaries.
Hi Vid,
Unless you know his circumstances, how can you quote the law to him?
He could be 50 years old, competent and wanting to spray his own cricket square for all I know.
Let him who is without guilt cast the first stone.
The ciderman rolls
25 Aug 2010 by vid
I was quoting it to Sculler who seems to think Carbendazim is a product rather than an active ingredient. I have no idea what Andyroos circumstances are as he didnt say - thats my point
vid in response to your quote carbendazim is in straight active form apart form the agchem products contrast,punch c , harvesan ,as you well know these are being phased out in 2012, and as all straight mbcs are 500 grm/ltr is the rate wrong that i quoted, i could have said use double the amount and get some cheap disease control now that would be illegal .
25 Aug 2010 by vid
To the letter of the law, if we really want to get in to that, advising someone adhoc like that even on this message board is illegal in itself unless you quote directly off the label and specifying the product that that label comes from. You are just not allowed to do it for the reasons I stated above. I also know the AIs are generally the same but dilution rates and application rates do vary betwen products. Do you personally know that the chemical make up of the solution is identical in every single case and every carbendazim product around the world? The active ingredient is not the only chemical in there. Be very careful what you say Sculler there are a lot of jobsworths out there who would just love to come and tell you all this on an official basis!!
1st rule of pesticide application; READ THE LABEL!!! everything you need to know will be on this.
Vid,
"Andyroo needs to find out the coverage and dilution rate for his product and also the recommended usage, plus be in possession of an application certificate (PA1 - 6) for the equipment (even a watering can) he intends to use in order to stay within the Law"
Looks pretty much to me like you were trying to suggest Andyroo would be committing a criminal offence without knowing his circumstances.
So, let's assume he was born in 1959, is experienced in using pesticides and able to demonstrate a good understanding of the label instructions and health and safety regulations and a full understanding of his application equipment and is also spraying on his own land. Does he need a PA1-6 or not?
The ciderman rolls
26 Aug 2010 by vid
No I wasnt and lets not
From the HSE website
http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/approvals.asp?id=1945
"All pesticide users must be adequately trained, no matter what their age and qualifications. The law says that contractors who apply agricultural pesticides commercially, and all operators born after 31 December 1964, are required to have a certificate of competence. The right to apply pesticides without an operator’s certificate of competence, because the operator was born before 31 December 1964, is known as ‘grandfather rights’. A trained operator can therefore be someone who does not have a certificate of competence but who has attended some training courses and has “grandfather rights”.
http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/safe_use.asp?id=626
Obtaining a Certificate of Competence is the best way of demonstrating that you are trained to use specific types of equipment, even if under the legislation you are not required to have one.
The questions asked would suggest to me that experience and knowledge of the label instructions was lacking.............
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
JT: "able to demonstrate a good understanding of the label instructions".
But if that were the case then the original question wouldn't have been asked.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Exactly.
Trying to digest what the hse website says about spraying, am I right to understand that if you are not a contractor and your employee owns the ground you are competent and can understand labels etc you can spray without pa1/6, Having attended and passed the courses myself I have no issues with either and maybe I have not digested this correctly.
Martin, what it says is if you are born before a certain date and work on someone elses land then you need to demonstrate you are compotent / trained in the use of pesticide application although you can spray without being certificated ( Grandfather rights) if you are born after this date you need certification to spray.
The issue is, define compotent? the best way to prove you are compotent is to be trained / certificated regardless of age.
27 Aug 2010 by DannyPC Last edited 27 Aug 2010
Echo Neils response, on an area used by the public - club members etc the law is categoric; the end user must possess a spraying certificate.
Martin any employee spraying, regardless of grandfathers must also hold NPTC. We could really do with a 'Spraying Pesticide' page + FAQ to save some of your fingers the repeated effort with these type of questions - what do you say ..???
Dan, yes an FAQ would be a good idea. But make sure it's correct.
Martin any employee spraying, regardless of grandfathers must also hold NPTC
Incorrect. You can spray under the supervision of someone who is certified without holding a certificate yourself.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
100%, very good idea DannyPC and Jlawernce is correct in that about being supervised by a certified person in the safe use of pesticides.
Happy August bank holiday weekend everybody,
L.K.B
Andy
if you are not old enough to spray
get your someones grandad to do it for you
would you cricket experts spray for worms at this time of year
Lee and jlawrence would suggest not?
i dont support worm chemical controls on football
but can the pitchcare cricket readers teach me some more
do you have to spray for worms and why?
Hello Parken,
Firstly, i would like to say i am not a cricket grounds expert but i do have over 15years voluntary experience in cricket groundsmanship and 12 years full time learning the trade on a 18 hole golf course.
I would like to work on football pitches if 'Jim'll fix it' could fix it for me.
I like to manage sportsturf using good, sound and proven methods of cultural practices. I'm also i believer of prevention better the cure.
Using chemicals should be a last resort.
Cheers
We learn something new everyday.
L.K.B
Parken, I don't consider myself an expert by any stretch of the imagination. But as far as worm casts on a cricket square go, there are two methods of controlling them (either chemical or manual). Manual is by brushing (or switching) to get rid of the casts - this would need to be done every day and so is only suitable for those on site everyday. Chemical control is obviously by spraying to get rid of the worms which leave casts, and by removing the casting worms (even if only for a period of time) it gives one less job for the part time groundsman to do. Spraying to get rid of the worms is something you only need to do once or twice a year so it simply makes life a lot easier - especially for those groundsmen with a limited amount of time on site.
So do you have to spray - no. But it can make life a lot easier if you do.
There are a couple of good reasons which spring to mind why you need to remove casts. 1) worm casts can cause an uneven surface - which isn't something you want on a cricket track. 2) casts are ideal for germinating weeds and because of the open growth habit of PRG there is enough space for weeds to get in without giving them another helping hand.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
31 Aug 2010 by panch
Worm casts on heavy clay loam can be difficult to brush or switch away unless the are dry, they tend to smear and make a bigger mess. Also cricket squares are normally cut around 10mm ish so you struggle to see them if you have a good tight sward.
tak all
jlawrence to me you are all experts as from definition
"A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject."
you all just demonstrated that
genuinley interested in how you manage the cricket strips and been reading the summer season message board comments
seeing how different wickets perform and behave and how it can influence the game
have enjoyed watching cricket the past few years possibly more than my first sport football
(although now slightly disappointed to read that its fixed!!)
Lee i think Jim"ll lost what little plot of the he had a number of years ago but i am sure that doors will open for you with your knowledge and enthusiasm
regarding Panch"s experiences and information
so is it the effect on the ball which would not be as great on football be the main consideration for worm casts on cricket?
are there consequence to using such chemicals, pesticides on the soil
for example, fungicides can damage the beneficial bateria in the soil
thanks Chris
Cheers Parken,
I've been looking at a local football club, Bamber Bridge, going to try and get in touch with them this weekend to see if they want any volunteers.
As for the question,
I believe that prolong use of such chemicals is bad for nature. The less we can use fungicides, pesticides the better.
Obviously we will all need to use them at some point to aid us as groundspersons / greeenkeepers.
Cheers.
L.K.B
3 Sep 2010 by Parken
morning Lee
bamber bridge eh!
i was born in a manger on withy trees avenue
and grew up in the hospital inn!!
good luck with your approach to irongate
cheers
3 Sep 2010 by vid
Hi Parken, to answer your questions. Worm casts are undesirable on any sports pitch really as they are sticky in winter and adhere to boot and ball, in summer they disturb surface smoothness and are therefore very unwelcome on bowling greens, golf greens and tennis courts and are down right dangerous on cricket squares and out fields as the hard ball can be deflected in to the players face (for instance).
When pests attack and affect large areas there is little one can do except turn to a chemical to try to kep the surface playable. However prevention is the key and it is here that the turf practitioner can make a huge difference as several people are alluding to here. One of them is not to upset the fungal balance within the soil by using fungicides - these seldom affect only the pathogenic fungal organism and can play havoc with several classes of microbe within the soil. Preventative maintenance not preventative pesticde application has to be the way forward. The constant over relience on these chemicals is not only poisoning and unbalancing the nature within the sports surface concerned but also the wider environment, its about time we changed the way we go about this . Apart from anything else it tends to end up cheaper and a whole lot more satisfying!
Hi Chris
Some of my current research has been to look at how pesticides affect the synergy and numbers of soil microbes - we are finding some very interesting data that is presenting itself. I will email you with up to date findings but it is always work in progress.
AA
Vid,
Greenwash.
There is nothing natural about the modern cricket track.
Be honest.
Or at least put a £££££price on your whole lot more satisfying vision.
The ciderman rolls
4 Sep 2010 by vid
would do Jon happily but this is not my medium to do so. The products I support are not yet supported by PC so I have to respect the site
4 Sep 2010 by vid Last edited 4 Sep 2010
Oh and by the way Jon - totally honest. Not having to use fungicides and growth retardants vastly increases the scope of anybody's budget. There is nothing natural about a USGA golf green or a desso football pitch either for that matter, but theres nothing to stop the progressive turf keeper from treating the surface as a natural medium instead of a test tube. What are you saying here Jon - that treating the square as a non natural area and smothering it in the latest poisons and drugs pushed by the chemical companies is preferable to encouraging the grasses to grow in a manner that has evolved naturally over millions of years. Why the resistance? This excessive use of chemical is already being restrained and I for one applaud it.
Well said Vid, couldn't put it better myself.
Also consider that a USGA green requires 20% extra on the budget due to the constant feed and water regime. which then encourages Poa.
I use to work on USGA greens, they where a nightmare.
Cheers
Lee
L.K.B
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