Message Board - Cricket: Scarifying clean up
27 Aug 2010 by Michael Carlisle Last edited 27 Aug 2010
Hi
Possibly a silly question!
What is the best way of cleaning up the wicket after deep scarifying?
I just envisage this creating a lot of mess as it's not been done for a couple of seasons (don't ask!!).
Comments appreciated.
27 Aug 2010 by A J
Try a power brush, or even a rotary will clean it up too.
Grow in grace...........
27 Aug 2010 by Minormorris64
I always use a rotary.
What goes around, comes around
27 Aug 2010 by olaf
Powerful blower
Some people are like Slinky's, totally useless but amusing if you push them down the stairs
28 Aug 2010 by willard
All three of the above!
Rotary for the baulk.
Brush for a final clean.
Blower clears out the grooves for seed & dressing.
Don't forget to remove as much grass as possible before you start...
28 Aug 2010 by EDDIE G
Hi Willard. In the past I have shaved my square before scarifying, which make it look like a desert and very hard. This year I was thinking of leaving a bit more grass on. My thoughts for this is with a bit more grass on it may hold the water a bit longer to make scarifying a little easier and help the new seed germinate quicker. Groundsman's thoughts welcome.
28 Aug 2010 by Tumbleweed
I think it's a myth regarding shaving it right down for end of season renovations there seems to be no point to it. my grass told me it would like to gradually taken down to 5 millimetres
I honestly can't wait to put these squares to bed
It looks like I have corporate cricket all the way to October still thems the breaks
The Dennis brush cassette and my new apprentice on a blower as punishment for wrecking the 4 wheel drive on my tractor should be sufficient
I'll send him too you with a dust pan and brush the little b@st**d
Every blade of grass has it's angel that bends over it and whispers "Grow, grow"
28 Aug 2010 by barry glynn
It seems to me that in order for scarifying to be most effective, the surface needs to be as flat as possible. Therefore unless you roll the whole square before you scarify, you need to cut it short which in effect rolls it slightly. Plus why leave the grass long whcih can possibly leave more thatch/unwanted stuff around whhen that is the stuff you afe trying to get rid of? if you dont cut short you are just making life harder for yourself to create a clean seedbed.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
29 Aug 2010 by willard
If you don't remove as much grass as possible with your mower before scarifying, you will have much more arisings to clean up after...
29 Aug 2010 by mackay
Cutting the grass short is really about preparing the surface for topdressing. Not only will it make leveling easier, it will reduce the liklihood of burying leaves.
Doesn't really make a difference to the quality of the scarifying, though mowing as part of the clean up process is a logical chain of events.
29 Aug 2010 by Grassman2011
Less vegitation on the surface means less organic material buried under top dressing. Why scarify to remove organic material and then not mow off and bury whats left under the loam, pointless.
I have had groundsman say to me, did not scarify and mow off that hard in case i did not have any grass next year. They then used one bag of grass seed to cover 12 pitches. When they were then short of grass they blamed the quality of seed for not germinating. First not planted in grooves or holes and then not enough seed used in the first place. Seed companies must love a lot of recreational groundsman for giving them a bad name.
30 Aug 2010 by mario Last edited 30 Aug 2010
I had a recreational groundsman say to me that he didn't scarify pitches at the end of the season to which he had carried out end repairs.
His reasoning was that the scarifier would rip out the new grass.
My argument is twofold - Don't repair ends on pitches which you are unlikely to use again during the season. They require only to be levelled to avoid the risk of injury from a ball travelling across an uneven surface.
Even if you do scarify repaired areas, if the root structure is robust, the plants will stay in place and recover.
It is imperative to thoroughly scarify the whole of the playing area.
I know no boundaries.
30 Aug 2010 by EDDIE G
Hi . My comments on leaving a bit more grass on the square prier to scarifying means instead of shaving to 3 to 4 mm I would leave an extra 1 mm on. Hoping the ground will not dry out so quick, so I can scarify hard and then go over the square with my variseeder strait after scarifying. Mario I repair my end as soon as I can after the track is finished with. Mainly to stop the worn ends becoming mud baths after rain and umpires saying the square is not playable. The attached photo is what my square looks like after I have cut and scarified.
30 Aug 2010 by mario
The difference between just scarifying and scarifying and brushing thereafter -
I know no boundaries.
30 Aug 2010 by pacman75cricket
Hi Guys do you brush after each pass, or once after scarifying in 3-4 directions will be using rotorake + collecting arisings.
30 Aug 2010 by mario
At the end of the scarifying process.
I know no boundaries.
30 Aug 2010 by EDDIE G
Sorry I should have said cut , scarify, brush them use the variseeder. If I have help I follow the graden with the rotorake and remove about 1 box full on every run up the wicket.
Eddie
30 Aug 2010 by Grassman2011
As many times as it takes to get the surface clean and usually after each pass if possible.
31 Aug 2010 by willard
You should clean after each pass with your scarifier...
1 Sep 2010 by barry glynn
Cleaning after each pass doesnt make sense, especially if using a graden and the next pass will send rubbish back over where you have just cleaned.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
1 Sep 2010 by mario
I suppose, Barry, it all depends whether you are boxing off the arisings as you go.
As you can see from my earlier photo, after four passes, there is very little left to be brushed up after using a TM1000 which is the tractor-mounted version of the Sisis 600.
However, a different kettle of fish if allowing everything to fly!!
I know no boundaries.
1 Sep 2010 by barry glynn
mario
if boxed It would depend wouldnt it on how much you are taking off? I have no intention of stopping on every pass if the box isnt full up, theres enough to do as it is!
But with a graden, its a non starter.
I ended up looking like Al Jolson last year when suing the graden!
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
1 Sep 2010 by mario Last edited 1 Sep 2010
In 2004 I took this amount out after four passes of the square. I take out about a quarter of that nowadays.
By continual scarifying year on year, I now find that three is a sufficient amount to clean out and produce a seed bed.
I know no boundaries.
1 Sep 2010 by Grassman2011
I clean up as i go as it is easier. If you scarify in three directions and then try to clean up it becomes very difficult for the power brush to cope. Would probably have to brush the surface three times to get it clean anyway.
Did twelve wickets today with tractor and graden, brushing up using tractor and tractor mounted litamina, three passes with each. Two hours. Two passes at 3mm, final pass at 6mm.
1 Sep 2010 by tonybolton
Just another question, why do some get so much organic material out during end of season renovations. Most of it must have been there as tracks were being played on. Personally I scarify several times at least two sometimes three directions during wicket prepartion. If it aint there it doesn't need removing. I regularly scarify used and unused wickets prior to mowing. Thatch and organic material can be removed on a regular, daily basis it doesn't need to be left to the end of the season. However the close season build up of dead organic matter needs to be well and truly removed in the Spring if wickets are to play well. I feel too much emphasis is put on end of season renovation as opposed to year round maintenance, the days have gone when a cricket table could be 'put to bed'.!!
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
3 Sep 2010 by jlawrence Last edited 3 Sep 2010
Tony, yes and no.
There will always be something to take out at the end of the season - regardless of how well you clean things up in season.
I think many people either don't have the time or the equipment to carry out year round thatch control.
If you think about it, it's pretty obvious where the yearly thatch build up comes from.
After your match, does every grass plant come back ? I know mine doesn't - hence why I overseed as part of repairing a track. That grass that doesn't come back will for part of the thatch build up which needs removing in the Autumn.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
3 Sep 2010 by Andy Matthews
John not everybody has the means for thatch control all year round as you say, but anyone who has a rotorake or similar has no excuse really, brushes can be bought for £70+vat plus £7.50 delivery from Northern brushes, you can then brush the whole strip after every game, the ammount of crap you can take off a track before you roll it in and use it again is ammasing, I have just picked up a billy goat hoover for £50 and tried it on a used track and it was every bit as good as the rotorake, so theres another option for cleaning up.
3 Sep 2010 by tonybolton
I feel you miss my point, SPRING renovations are so important, you can remove all your AUTUMN rubbish and miss the problems built up over a severe or very wet winter, The grass looks nice in April but what's under it, thach and organic material, I,m an exponent of spring renovation, just because the grass looks nice it doesn't mean it will play well.
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
3 Sep 2010 by jontaylor
Back from a sunny week in Cornwall
Three words.
Use a verticutter.
Nuf said
The ciderman rolls
3 Sep 2010 by Loammeister
I'm convinced by Tony's argument here, it is going to change the way we look at things come next Spring time that's for sure.
Tony do you still look to keep the integrity of the surface of the loam intact or do you feel you get sufficient benefit to 'risk' any such break to the surface? It's always been a no no for me to make much of an impression on early season surfaces but I'm always willing to learn in the aim of improving.
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
3 Sep 2010 by jontaylor
No it's not going to change my methods David, I've seen and previously shown on this site what can happen if your autumn work is substandard and you cut the surface in spring.
For the brave ones, try it. Go on, I dare you.....You might get lucky....
For the wise ones, clean up in autumn with subsuface work, clean up in spring with blades only just touching the surface.
Good luck anyone else.
Get a verticutter. The best tool in the shed?
The ciderman rolls
3 Sep 2010 by Loammeister
I'm not advocating substandard Autumn works John, but I like the idea of brushing up in the Spring time to clear away the debris of whatever Winter has to offer us. Curious to know if Tony risks the breaching of the surface though, something which I would agree has always been a no go area. Keeping a mind completely open though having seen Tony's excellent results. Yes a verticutter is a great tool and I think you're actually agreeing with what Tony's suggesting- blades only just touching the surface. Hope Cornwall was welcoming as always and not too many Rick Stein dinners JT.
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
3 Sep 2010 by jontaylor
No Rick Stein - I'm a veggie!. Wife's family run Halzephron Inn (near Helston) and Old Coastguards (in Mousehole) though - so v nice dinner yesterday thanks to Angela at the Halzephron. If you're there, try the puds - heaven in a heart attack.
Fully agree. Clean up surface in spring before rolling, but don't cut surface beyond the accidental 1mm or so.
The ciderman rolls
4 Sep 2010 by Richardb
Andy, a quick search failed to reveal the contact details for Northern Brushes, the price you quoted is so much cheaper than Sisis!! could you post their e-mail
4 Sep 2010 by Andy Matthews
Richardb, just search on e-bay for sisis and you will see the brushes advertised
4 Sep 2010 by Andy Matthews
Sorry my mistake it's brushes north west
5 Sep 2010 by jlawrence
I Would be interested in exactly what Tony does in the spring.
Personally, I believe there is 'breaking the surface' and 'breaking the surface'. Just going slightly into the top doesn't harm it in anyway - going 12mm in will cause a lot of problems (IMO).
Take a look at how, many of, the first class guys repair a track; run a Graden down it and reseed it then very lightly top dress. That's breaking the surface without a doubt.
I think all the scares in the past have been caused by people trying to go to autumn depths in the spring. IMO, that risks it cracking horrendously and possibly completely de-stabalising the top (ie cracks will disintegrate).
Just lightly going into the surface doesn't cause problems - I've done it numerous times during the playing season and brought those tracks back later to be reused no probs.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
5 Sep 2010 by tonybolton
Glad to see I've started a bit of debate, just got beat by Haslingden, local derby, chasing 277 of the allotted 50 overs. The track had zero/thatch/organic material in it so why am I to scarify the the nuts off it next week. The wicket in my opion is pretty much clean and played very well. It wont look the same in February, March and April.
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
5 Sep 2010 by jlawrence
There will be some dead organic material in there, roots etc from the grass plant that doesn't recover from the rigors of a match - whether it matters I'd not like to guess.
On top of that you're scarifying the nuts off it in order to create a key to take your new loam (which will restore your levels) and to create tilth to take your new seed.
On a well (or perhaps 'fully' is a better word) maintained square there 'should' be minimal thatch at the end of the season and you're (in practical terms) only scarifying for the above 2 reasons in the autumn.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
5 Sep 2010 by tonybolton
I've taken a different approach in recent seasons, OK good end of season repairs and renovation, scarify, seed top dress etc., but take a really carefull look at your square before you start pre season rolling. You might just be rolling all the winter build up rubbish into it and that's why your wickets arn't playing as you'd like
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
6 Sep 2010 by Grassman2011
A spring groom/light scarify/stiff brush/rake, what ever term is used has always been part of annual maintenance as far as i know.
And yes it is surprising how much winter rubbish is removed.
6 Sep 2010 by Vic Demain
Have to congratulate Tony on challenging the accepted principals, his methods obviously work on his ground, which looks superb, we are constantly learning and what better way to learn than from a guy who gets down on his hands and knees to do the job.
6 Sep 2010 by Mal
I'd have thought that it was common sense to clean out the square before the start of the season to ensure that you are not rolling the build up of organic matter, though as most would start pre-season in February who would verticut then. I have in the past and tend to complete it at he back end of march regardless of pre-season rolling and I can only point to the fact that as you are likely to complete this work during individual wicket preps you are not only performing the task over the whole square but will keep you ahead of the game so to speak.
Geography is everywhere
6 Sep 2010 by jlawrence
I will verticut lightly before starting pre-season rolling - though I've never started rolling in Feb. I'm lucky if I can get on the square in March never mind Feb.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
6 Sep 2010 by Neil Dixon
I am going to try power brushing our 1st team square this winter, when conditions are good, i always find i end up with a green algae ( not moss) on the surface come the spring, so hopefully power brushing will prevent this.
6 Sep 2010 by RAM 1
Just to add my two penneth. I like some above will vertigroom complete square prior to PSR, to clean out any rubbish accumulated over the winter, last year I got loads of sycamore seeds allover the square, how I don't know as there are no sycamore trees anywhere near the ground, anyway they started to take root so had I not cleaned out the sward I would have had trees all over the square. Bizarly we also had walnut shells appear, your guess is as good as mine on that one.It also removes any lateral growth of the grass and makes the grass grow vertically. I then powerebrush and cut square to desired height. then start PSR. After that I vertigroom each track once as part of track prep,then brush and cut as normal, and do the rest of the square once a month, to make life easier.
Two provisos I have for the above
1. always and only in direction of play.
2.Only lightly touch soil profile before PSR , after that just through sward height..
6 Sep 2010 by paul kelsey
Reckon it needs to be a very dry March to be able to powerbrush without making a mess very powerfull them brushes.
6 Sep 2010 by Collie
Got my scarifying done over the weekend using a graden (what a machine) Heavy rains have prevented the seeding and dressing which I hope to do some night this week. Used a powerful blower to clear up the debris and it has given me the best results ever for keeping the grooves open. In previous years, I just used the mower which flattened them down again. All and all, it's worked very well.
One point about doing heavy work pre-season is this year I had free access to a disc seeder and jumped at the chance. Three passes were done and seed was stitched in. March proved to be very dry over here and the square cracked considerably along these lines. It wasn't as disastrous as I feared as I managed to keep on top of it. Needless to say, it was a lesson learned and I won't be experimenting like that again.
6 Sep 2010 by jlawrence
I'm thinking of using a blower this year. Blow to the edge of the square then pick up with a rotary from there. I'll try it first on my 4 track practice square, if it appears cleaner than just using the brush/rotary on the square then I'll do it on my 2nd match square.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
6 Sep 2010 by mario
Do it.......it is better!
I know no boundaries.
6 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
We graden the square every year but it's fair to say it leaves plenty of mess, the rotary doesn't pick nearly enough up so the only option is the blower, and they're really good!
We hire one from the county for 50 quid or something and they're worth their weight in gold. I've attached a pic of what it looks like ready for seeding and topdressing.
This year we're getting the koro in and i'm reliably informed it picks everything up so we can just crack on with the seeding and top dressing.
Just on the sarel rolling.... you can get it in the square with the tractor attachment as the linkage forces it in, but trying to manually push it across 12 tracks?? f*ck that!
6 Sep 2010 by Grassman2011
The Koro will leave a smooth surface Jonathan. How do you intend applying your seed and top dressing ?
I would still Graden the square, one to leave a seed bed to plant the seed in and two, to create a key for the new top dressing to settle into.
Otherwise it will be a little like putting gloss paint on top of old gloss paint without rubbing the old paint down first. It will not be long before the new dressing peels of the surface below.
6 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
I am reliably informed the koro has two functions - the fraize mower which takes the top right off like you're referring to and a linear aerator much like the graden only it picks stuff up!
That was the brief when I spoke to the contractor this morning anyway.... Otherwise they can bring their Graden back and I'll blow the grooves out again.
If something sounds too good to be true I suppose it probably might be. I'll be back on the phone in the morning now!
It's lashing down right now so i think it could be a couple of days before we get cracking
6 Sep 2010 by Grassman2011
I might be wrong here Jonathan, but i believe it can be one or the other, not both at the same time. If you use it as a linear aerator then i believe you will be ok.
7 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
had a chat with the contractors today, i can use it as a linear aerator and it picks up all the crap leaving a perfect seed bed. Seeing as a graden and blower combo is one of the dirtiest jobs ever undertaken in the dry i reckon it,s cheap at twice the price to get the experts in!
7 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
had a chat with the contractors today, i can use it as a linear aerator and it picks up all the crap leaving a perfect seed bed. Seeing as a graden and blower combo is one of the dirtiest jobs ever undertaken in the dry i reckon it,s cheap at twice the price to get the experts in!
7 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
had a chat with the contractors today, i can use it as a linear aerator and it picks up all the crap leaving a perfect seed bed. Seeing as a graden and blower combo is one of the dirtiest jobs ever undertaken in the dry i reckon it,s cheap at twice the price to get the experts in!
8 Sep 2010 by willard
Our Koro doesn't pick up when using scarifying blades. We don't get the same draft generated. Would be interested to hear if they can pick up when just scafifying...
Not just for cricket, but for soccer fields etc...
8 Sep 2010 by Vic Demain
I am told by the contractors concerned that they do scarify and collect. Used widely on winter pitches but also doing a lot of squares (blocks) around this way. 2 passes in less than half a day. Guess Olaf is the guy to talk to as he uses them.
8 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
i suspect we'd all use the same company, olaf is our county pitch inspector...
8 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
in terms of outfields, has anyone used the amazone or ryetec scarifier/collector? They're like flail mowers with a knife in the middle of the "spoon" which does the scarifying and the draft created by the flails chucks it all in the bin. I'm tempted to hire one but interested in other peoples experiences
8 Sep 2010 by Vic Demain
Jonathan, we have a small ryetec, which I use a lot during the autumn/winter for scarifying the outfield. Used in conjunction with a chain harrow. One week flail, next harrow but without seed or soil we still suffer.
Yes I'm sure it is the same company.
8 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
in terms of outfields, has anyone used the amazone or ryetec scarifier/collector? They're like flail mowers with a knife in the middle of the "spoon" which does the scarifying and the draft created by the flails chucks it all in the bin. I'm tempted to hire one but interested in other peoples experiences
8 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
in terms of outfields, has anyone used the amazone or ryetec scarifier/collector? They're like flail mowers with a knife in the middle of the "spoon" which does the scarifying and the draft created by the flails chucks it all in the bin. I'm tempted to hire one but interested in other peoples experiences
8 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
i suspect we'd all use the same company, olaf is our county pitch inspector...
8 Sep 2010 by Vic Demain
J, I think you may be repeating yourself a touch.
8 Sep 2010 by Jonathan Little
that's my shoddy phone!
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