Message Board - Cricket: renovation article.
1 Sep 2010 by jlawrence
I've been reading the renovation article. I find it interesting that Bob talks about irrigating to a depth of 100mm. I aim to do this when prep'ing track but not as part of my renovations.
When renovating (using a linear aerator) I aim to have the square pretty dry - certainly not wet to 100mm. I find the graden etc work best if the ground isn't wet/damp. If it's damp then everything just becomes very messy, you end up about 6 inch taller and picking up the arisings becomes much more difficult.
After renovations then I irrigate quite often in order to keep the new seed/plants moist and to try and get the best germination I can.
What is everyone else's thoughts on this ?
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
1 Sep 2010 by Mike
I lightly irrigate the surface to aid the penetration of our Sisis scarifies knives - mainly because if the square is too dry, the tungsten tips come off!! I will be following this up with Sisis though as I don't think that this should happen, and given the choice, I would rather scarify the square when dry as I feel it does a better job.
Mike
1 Sep 2010 by barry glynn
Ive used a graden for the past 2 years and it is a heavy duty piece of kit but makes a hell of a mess as it has no box.
Im hiring a Sisis 600 this year to try and get a cleaner seed bed.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
1 Sep 2010 by tonybolton Last edited 1 Sep 2010
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That's the name of the game, it's a messy time consuming job, no easy ways out, if you want it doing correctly, too dry and penetration is poor too wet and as Jon says it becomes messy. Take your time, I do it track by track and continually clear up the 'mess' I've made. We finish league games mid September and it's mid October before my renovations are completed. Pick your windows (weather wise) if it's not fit don't do it. You can try and do the whole thing in three or four days, but I'll guarantee results will be mediocre or poor. Get rid of all thatch and organic material, create a seed to soil seed bed, top dress and level using true lute etc, fertilise and irrigate as required. Put your mitts together and say a few prayers, but remember don't waste costly seed and loam in freezing November, December, January and February trying to patch up the odd bare spot. Good use of germination sheets in March and April will soon remedy any shortcomings. It works for me.
Sorry that's my Rugby pitch
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
1 Sep 2010 by Grassman2011
If people are happy levelling using a true lute fine, but how wide are these tools and how difficult are they to use ?
1 Sep 2010 by tonybolton
Never had a real problem with the Sisis tru lute the only weapon available to me. However I suppose a lot depends on the levels you are dealing with if your wickets are way out then I suppose nothing more than laser guided equipment is necessary. End to end string lines and the faithful Sisis have saved me going to Spec Savers.
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
2 Sep 2010 by Grassman2011
I only asked Tony, because it has been suggested to me that dragging in with a 6ft dragmat means that you are only following any contours that already exist. A two ft true lute is surely only going to follow smaller contours.
If a square has major undulations then i always advise using a ladder to drag across the line of play once the loam has been dragged in. If nothing else it will drag loam of any high spots.
2 Sep 2010 by jlawrence
I use a tru lute to spread the loam around and worked into the surface. IMO it's not used to get levels right, for that I use an aluminium ladder.
Gordon used his drag mat on my main square last year and it improved the levels considerably. in 2009 I had a major low spot on one track, after Gordon did his work that spot was reduced so much for 2010 that puddles no longer formed there - and no, I didn't ladder it after he'd finiished.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
2 Sep 2010 by Grassman2011
Thanks for that JL. Iwas not aware of that.
2 Sep 2010 by tonybolton
Surely the ladder only follows the level at its extremity, ok if you've got a great big hole you'll see it and continue to fill. the Tru lute with string lines on a single track means you can move loam into low areas and take it away from high areas, it's time consuming but works. Drag mats I have a six footer supplied by Ricam only follow contours OK you'll drag in all your new loam but unless someone with a lute and a good eye fills the the low spots and addresses the highs all you'll do with a ladder or a drag mat is increase the the hight of your problems. There's no easy solution, it's hard work and time consuming.
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
3 Sep 2010 by Michael Carlisle
Hi
In addition, in the article it says that he seeds, top dresses and then fertilisers. In another article I read that fertiliser should be applied at least 3 days before seeding.
What are people opinions on this?
3 Sep 2010 by vid
I think moistening the soil to 100mm is an excellent idea, I doubt he means have it soaking at renovation JL just moist. Once you have renovated soaking the square is a bad idea as it can displace seed and fertiliser and encourage disease. If you have already built up a deep reserve of water you will only need to water lightly. Soaking to this depth also makes it possible to start aerating before or during renovation, this massively helps the ground to recover, allowing water and air in to the profile - this in turn activates all the soil aerobic microbes and this will improve germination and rapid root establishment. At renovation fertilisers hinder recovery of the soil as they will reduce microbial activity and can damage seedlings. If you must (and IMO) add fertiliser in advance when moistening the soil but better still use microbial feeds and stimulants instead - this greatly improves germination in my experience - the plant is not short of nutrient at this stage as it is carried in the seed, the sol microbes after a heavy season of abuse however are desperately short of nutrition - helping them establish their symbiotic relationship with the seedling root is much more beneficial
3 Sep 2010 by mario
Agree, Vid. As I have mentioned before - if you have a balanced fertilising programme in place then nutrients should be readily available. I use a bio-stimulant on a monthly basis, so would like to think, that this would encourage germination.
I would suggest putting on a 5-5-10 or similar once the new plants are "up and running". If you can organise it so that solid tining takes place at the same tome, then a proportion of the granules will be down in the rootzone.
I know no boundaries.
3 Sep 2010 by RAM 1
On a slightly different tack.I notice from the pictures that after scarrification the surface was cubed. I was under the impression that this weakens the block surface and cause problems, at least that's what they teach. Cosequently I have always crossed at a much shallower angle to previous pass, and always finished in line of play. How does anyone else do it .
3 Sep 2010 by Loammeister
old bloke mario has a terrific demonstration of the angles that work for him (see old message www.pitchcare.com/message/message/15927 although there are more recent versions but still the same angles), it might work well for you too?
Most people have their own versions of what mario demonstrates but it wouldn't be too remiss to follow the example of another top groundsman old bloke.What have you done previously? You're quite right about the cubing effect that can happen.
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
3 Sep 2010 by RAM 1
Loammeister. I have seen Marios pic. That's what I do just not at such wide angles . Example 1st pass 6 o'clock to 12o'clock. 2nd pass would be 7 to 1. 3rd pass would be 5to 11and then repeat if reqd brushing up after everycompleted angle. Final pass always in direction of play. Then sorrel roll all the same directions, seed, brush in, reloam, level etc etc.
3 Sep 2010 by Grassman2011
With all those scarifying lines for seed to drop into old bloke, can i ask why you sorrel roll as well. It would never spike my square.
4 Sep 2010 by mario
I wouldn't be able to get a sarrel roller into my square at this time.
I know no boundaries.
4 Sep 2010 by vid
Perhaps thats why he moistens it to depth first as per the article - just because a graden will work in hard dry soil doesnt mean it cant work just as well in moist (not wet) soil . Not all squares can achieve worthwhile depths of water by irrigation, but I always insist that clubs have spent a week getting some moisture in to the ground before we come to do renovations.
4 Sep 2010 by RAM 1
Bath,to answer your question, it's a three year plan to increase grass coverage and trying to eradicate some unwanted grasses. Mario as you say I couldnt get sorrell roller to make a mark on my square either, but I do irrigate for at least a week prior to e.o.s repairs.
5 Sep 2010 by barry glynn
Its all very well saying pick your weather window but if you have to hire scarifiers, loam spreaders, you have them for a day normally.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
5 Sep 2010 by paul kelsey
Might be off track here but I have seen in other posts after getting the groove's in putting the seed on then brushing in the seed are we talking going over with the big drag brush and does it work by leaving maximum seed in the groove,s
5 Sep 2010 by Grassman2011
Yes, dragbrush or drag mat.
5 Sep 2010 by jlawrence
I brush the seed in before top dressing - the idea being as you say Paul to get the max in the various grooves.
Barry, yes that's the major headache with hiring in. Few of us have the equipment to maintain the ideal conditions for renovations over an entire square so that part is in the lap of the gods.
Using the county trailer has the advantage that every one is in the same boat and most (if not all) simply won't renovate in aweful conditions. If conditions are touch and go then I'll renovate, if they are simply too bad then I'll wait for better conditions. I'd rather renovate late Oct in good conditions than mid Sept in a swamp.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
5 Sep 2010 by Jimmy Cricket
Jl, you are quite right in waiting for the right conditions, to often clubs try to rush through thier renovation work because they have borrowed or hired the equipment. The art of good groundsmanship is to have some patience as well as courage, skill and endevour.
Tractorman
5 Sep 2010 by jlawrence
Of course, if you've hired in from a regular hire shop then you're likely set with the date and that's that - in that case you've just got to get on with it.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
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