Hi all, Ive been asked if we can use our tractors on the roads around the school i know we can travel only about a mile using red diesil can we operate salt spreaders using red or do we need to switch to white if we do , do we have to change filters. Cheers ian
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
IIRC you need to use white.
There was a big hoo haa about this last year with many farmers just saying F you then it's not worth the hassle.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Unless you are working in agriculture you cannot even cross the road using red diesel in a tractor or utility vehicle. However you can drive a purpose made mower on the highway providing it has tax and insurance. All these rules came into force at the beginning of last year.
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
Ive just looked again on the customs website and it does include horticulture and we have got direct permission to use red diesil travelling within 1 and a quarter mile of the tractor base. We are asking permission from the local council to be able to grit the roads around the prep school an area which isnt salted. Ian
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
Does your public liability insurance cover you for this ?? we were asked and looked into it, only to be told our premium would go up. They said it would have to cover frost damage to roads and paths etc...
Yes ive spoken to the estates bursar about the risks but we all know what teachers are like and dont think of the risks and posible problems. Ian
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
Wicketdevil according to customs amenity tufcare is not classed as horticulture anymore. Horticulture is growing produce but not grass.
Chris
You will never see a statue in honour of a committee.
just got this from the north yorkshire council website regarding becoming a contractor.
Please note - If you use a tractor to tow a gritter, the tractor you use must use white diesel. If you have a tractor with a snowplough attached to it then you can use red diesel, however if you attach a gritter to the back of this tractor then you must use white diesel.
Ive just come off the phone from HMG help line and they are getting back to me to give me the final answer. I will give you the result. Ian
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
I had a return call from HMG as long as its only approach roads to a school you can use red diesil and spread salt at the same time however you have to have a snow blade fitted and be clearing snow. You have to use the schools tractor. Ian
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
to be fair..its all a load of cobblers....just another way of getting a few bucks out of us....Cusoms & Excise tried to make it a law that farm contractors has to drive from farm to farm on white deisel, then switch over tanks to red to work in the field...this was kyboshed when it was discovered that it is illegal to have 2 fuel types on the same vehicle apart from gas conversions...as white is DERV and red is Heavy Oil...and how are they gonna police this differenciating between who can use what fuel in which machine for which type of business..??
Ticky supports British farmers...!!
It is a load of cobblers. Various governments rattle on about alternate fuel supplied but realistically just want to cop as much tax as they can from anything. They are not and have never been interested in fuel becoming cheaper in any format. They say that petrol companies actively squash any alternatives to petrol etc but I think government does the same.
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
My supplier has sent me a letter stating that from Jan 2011 red diesel will no longer be available due to a reclassification by the EEC only normal white or bio diesel will be available??? Anyone heard of this too?
From HMRC on FARMERS tractor use for snow clearance AND gritting:
http://nds.coi.gov.uk/clientmicrosite/Content/Detail.aspx?ClientId=257&NewsAreaId=2&ReleaseID=416885&SubjectId=36
I am sure that they would be practically minded to view all tractors the same....
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
Supersonic, are you or your club VAT registered... could be that
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
8 Dec 2010 by Barry Pace Last edited 8 Dec 2010
From our supplier, Hall Fuels:
Compulsory Changes to Gas Oil from January 2011
In order to reduce any detrimental effects upon human health and the environment from January 2011 the EU Directive 2009/30/ec dictates that all non-road mobile machinery (i.e. construction equipment, forklifts, agricultural equipment & in land water vessels etc) must only use Ultra Low Sulphur Gas Oil (containing up to 7% Bio Diesel). Users of Gas Oil for stationary equipment and heating may also be affected in the respect that Ultra Low Sulphur Gas Oil, to the new specification, may only be available from some suppliers.
It is expected that the oil industry will gradually accommodate and implement the required changes in the run up to January 2011. The Department for Transport advises that 'Bio diesel blends, of up to 7%, are compatible with existing users provided good housekeeping arrangements have been adhered to in the storage of the fuel. In addition to this the following recommendations are advised to be complied with:
- Fuel filters are replaced after the first 2-3 tanks of new fuel.
- Fuel systems are examined following the switch and that any leaking seals and pipes are replaced.
- If older machinery is being serviced fuel seals and pipes should be replaced as a precaution'.
Changes:
http://www.hallfuels.co.uk/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=cQeLwWRfS-Y%3d&tabid=59
I guess your supplier will continue with old Gas oil for heating only and not stock the 'new' red. Change suppliers.
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
and everyone knows that bio-fuel in deisel engines is bad for them....there is not enough upper cylinder lubricant in it....in effect the engines burn lean..which in turn leads to premature wear...
Ticky supports British farmers...!!
13 Dec 2010 by JOH
Evening all
I was lead to believe that Red Diesel will, from Jan 2011 essentially be the same low sulphur fuel as white, just with the red additive to indicate tax exemption.
Ive noticed on our new equipment due for delivery March that alot of it is already marked up as 'Low Sulphur Fuel Only' Alot of the manufacturers are implementing new engine types to work with this change in fuel.
But as you say, its one big con, farmers around us didnt bother snow blading this year - this country is backwards, out to hit those who want to help, what doesnt make sense is that they have relaxed HGV Drivers hours due to the bad weather for a short period of time.
Cheers
JP
Joe, From HMRC on FARMERS tractor use for snow clearance AND gritting: There was not a problem, in the end, with duty....
http://nds.coi.gov.uk/clientmicrosite/Content/Detail.aspx?ClientId=257&NewsAreaId=2&ReleaseID=416885&SubjectId=36
I am sure that they would be practically minded to view all tractors the same....
BUT whio would you actually be working for, council or some term contractor who only cares about whats in the contract and how long would it take to get paid.....
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
If we have a repeat of the snow problems later this week or next week then the government ought to just announce a wholesale amnesty on red usage diesel for any road clearance work by any vehicle, be it gritting or snow removal. The economic loss to the country is far greater by leaving the roads blocked rather than HMRC whining about temporary loss in tax revenue. It could even be based on a local authority or county system so that only troubled counties have the amnesty on red usage.
It's a question for your MP to put in Parliament, asking the treasury to sort it. Any backbencher loves an easy and populist question. By doing that the press should pick it up quite quickly.
I agree eddy we have the sports minister as our MP and I know he is keen to support our industry. I will pin him down. Ian
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
That should, therefore, be an easy one then. You might have to hurry though because tomorrow at noon is possibly the last one before Xmas. Email him at his constit. and the house of commons marked urgent, ie before the weather comes.
As an aside, do the forces have an exemption here? I don't know but I bet they do. They probably have tax exempt fuel but perhaps a different colour again? I know that emergency services don't pay vehicle excise duty or carry insurance, they have Crown Indemnity. Or they did when an ambulance smashed into my Mini going through a red light.
Sent a basic explanation to my MP at the house of commons jic. Forecast bleak by Friday in Lancaster
Erm... hello...
Farmers can use red diesel to help out in extreme weatherHM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) confirmed today that during extreme weather farmers can use red diesel in their tractors to help grit and clear snow from public roads.
Under normal rules any vehicle that is specifically constructed or adapted for dealing with frost, ice and snow – such as a snow plough – can work on public roads while using red diesel.
HMRC recognise the vital role played by farmers in helping to keep rural roads clear. So during this period of extreme weather HMRC will adopt a pragmatic approach to the rules. This means tractors on public roads clearing snow or gritting to provide access to schools, hospitals, a remote dwelling, or communities cut off by ice and snow are entitled to use red diesel.
More details can be obtained by calling the Excise and Customs Helpline on Tel 0845 010 9000.
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
I thought thats what i said lol. Mind you it can take a while to get through to HMRC. They rang me back but you must have a snow blade fitted not just a bucket. Ian
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
Barry, wicketdevil:
That's my whole point. HMRC do have regulations for this yes, but the small print is so complicated and arcane that in the end people just throw their hands in the air and say 'sod it I won't bother then.'
My point is a GOVERNMENT led amnesty, not the Civil Service adopting a 'pragmatic approach to the rules.' In mandarin speak this means being dragged reluctantly into doing something different that will lose them revenue and take up their time. They don't like it.
If the Excise man is going to book one person unblocking a road with a bobcat or a jcb but allow a tractor and plough through then where's the logic in that? And what about a tractor and trailer with a load of grit to take through? A government announced amnesty is the only way.
I have a similar example of this with HMRC: Last year I built on to my house to install a new bedroom, medical room and lift for my daughter who uses a wheelchair. Some but only some of the materials used should have been VAT exempt. The procedure is complicated but basically I provide materials suppliers with a self certified exemption certificate and they invoice the materials at zero-rated. This is way out of the comfort zone for every Builders Merchant accounts system and they can't handle it. I even tried paying just the bill but not the vat and they put a stop on my account in spite of long discussions from my accountant. They just wouldn't do it because they were terrified the Revenue would prosecute them. Basically they said 'sod it it's too complicated.' It cost me thousands.
Have any of you ever been stopped to have your fuel checked whilst crossing roads between schools, or cutting grass to the side of the road or snow clearing whether it be a blade or a bucket ? i am absolutely sure that the custom and excise man is going to come down the road, lane, track or whatever just to ckeck your fuel in bad weather.
Ticky may have been pulled over at sometime or another, but then i know he has a big tractor, may be even two and often hauls large agricultural machinery.
Surely most of you transport a tractor on a trailer or similar to site, unless working very local. Now all tell me i am wrong. Dont worry about it being Christmas and goodwill to all men and all that. Give it both barrels.
Bath you may well be right but its the driver who gets the fine so we have every right to check the law out before we are told to clear roads luckily for me its not going to happen as the blade costs too much. Ian
Can you just is the longest sentence in the world !!!!!!!
I've seen numerous tractors round here being checked. Whether they'd bother to do it in bad weather is another matter.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
Bath, no you're absolutely right no sensible excise officer would do that in those conditions I'm sure. But there is always a first time,
As for tractors on the road, I live on the route through town that farmers use to take their stock to the mart. Fridays is very busy. I'd say that for every 10 Landrovers or Toyotas towing an Ifor Williams, there will be a tractor pulling one too. Excise checks, (and prosecutions), are not uncommon. They land up at the Auction Mart unannounced.
I know tractors get checked at check points and on market days etc. Has anybody ever had the custom and excise turn up with there testing equipment to check the fuel in tractors being used to grit and clear snow around schools etc ? I believe that they would have to bring plod with them to actually pull you over. Is that really going to happen during a spell of bad weather. Of course you have to know the law, but how many always stick to 30mph where stated or 70mph on the motorway, or refuse cash in the hand when offrered ?
If you look up my clubs website, you will find an interesting article on pinching salt. A dozen shovels of salt and it was investigated, the club was visited twice, i was missing on both occasions. No further action to be taken. What an utter waste of police time.
17 Dec 2010 by mario
" A dozen shovels of salt and it was investigated, the club was visited twice, i was missing on both occasions."
What you saying here, Gordon? Are they still looking for you?
I know no boundaries.
now in hiding Mario. Not resurfacing untill the new year. Have a good one mate.
18 Dec 2010 by Mal
Presumably not till Harrogate Bath - I'll hold the exit door open for you round the back so you can slip in un-noticed.
Geography is everywhere
Mario, are you coming down to join us at harrogate this year ?
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
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