Education
I have just been viewing the greenkeeping world forum. There is a diatribe in there stating that in this country the available educational degrees, in the grounds sector, are rubbish and not worth the paper that they are written on. I would be interested in how this is viewed by members of Pitchcare.
12 Jan 2004 by Anthony Asquith
education
in reply to your question the problem is that the sportsturf degrees are only full time and the industry is stating that you can leave school and walkinto a degree course with no experience and be classed as a grounds manager when qualified.i am qualified and i know several groundsman who have not had qualifications and they have learned it all on the job and become great groundsman.all the best groundsman/grounds managers are at the older scale and have spent years educating themselves.i progressed through the nvq`s and they are a brilliant way to learn and progress and get paid for learning, not sat at a desk full time gaining nothing much in the experience sector.anybody agree or disagree?
education
I agree that there are excellent groundsman in our industry that have learned through experience. There are sportsturf degrees that are part-time and can be spread over a number of years. This is a good alternative to full-time education. I do agree with you that someone who leaves college with a degree and no experience will have a hard time in a grounds managers position
16 Jan 2004 by pete
Education
Education and experience should go hand in hand. I know plenty of good groundsmen who work hard and achieve reasonable success. many of these guys though don't understand how they are achieving success because they often don't have basic knowledge on what grass/soil needs. Learning and understanding the science would make good groundsmen, great groundsmen!!!!
17 Jan 2004 by pete
Basic knowledge
What I am saying is that some groundsmen perform daily, weekly, annual duties because that's what they learned during their placement/apprenticeship from senior staff. They can produce a reasonable surface, without having an actual understanding of how they've achieved it, get my drift.
18 Jan 2004 by PAZ
BASIC
no i dont get your drift Pete. You need some understanding of how and why we do the tasks we do, to achieve any standard. If you are only being told by an experienced groundsperson what to do.
18 Jan 2004 by what
basic
basic is good but the basic can be obtained from who ever going to college on a day release basis to start and then take that back to the work place and interact with members of there team and gain info from them how their boss would do things and so on. this helps all get better, "allowing the hundreds of different ways to skin the cat" to be used ! meaning this trade has many colourful people within it and they all in turn have different ways of doing things as well. some are wrong and some are right!! or are they? different sites have different pro's and con's. I think if you are educated from the basic level you can understand things from other sides not being single minded and against ideas. Chris you are right get the education and allow yourself to try and understand your boss! "experienced groundsman" i think thats who your on about. try and ask him what and why your doing the tasks he requests that may help or not ? let us all know what you do! cheers m8
18 Jan 2004 by PAZ
Basic
"what" you are quite correct in what you have said.
I would say that it must be in the minority to suggest that groundsman, who do the turf care tasks asked by their managers, dont have an idea of the reasons why, and know when to and when not to do the tasks.
what- what do you do?
Education/Experience
In my experience, Pete is right; there are groundsman who have been in the business for 20+ years and do a good job but can't tell one grass from another or know the difference between organic and inorganic fertilizers (I know someone like this who produces county standard wickets). They do their work and go home.
I don't claim to be a better groundsman then these people but I am more inquisitive. I like to know more about what's going on in the soil, about new products and ideas that will improove things. I hope asking questions, and finding some answers, will improove me as a groundsman. To do this I go on selected courses (these days very specific ones like the IoG/ECB cricket courses) and talk to other, interested, groundsman.
It's like driving a car. Most people can drive a car well without understanding how it works, but a good understanding of the engine or clutch will make that person a better driver.
And you can't learn to drive a car just by reading books.
Education experiance
Experiance and education do go hand in hand. yes like all. I started has an apprentice working in Birmingham parks and playing fields, being told what to do by older experianced staff who did not have qualifications but years of working experiances. for example using a large dennis 36 " mower to mow the ornamental lawns in Cannonhill Park Ken who had been doing this job for 20 years made it look so simple and the quality of the cutting patterns and cut was excellant.
when we apprentices were given the chance to mow these lawns we were unable to control the mower, failed to keep the blades set resulting in total anilation of the beds and lawns. But we all need to start somewhere, and by asking kens advice and listening to him over a period of time our mowing skill improved.
so i have to agree with some readers that many grounds staff have managed to learn the skill of the trade without formal education.
However it is important to ensure that staff have the opportunity to go to college and training courses to back up their experiances and have a better understanding why they are doing these tasks.
we must ensure that education is available for all and at all levels NVQ- Degree level thus enabling all involved to raise the standards and profile of our industry.
20 Jan 2004 by mikeb
education/experiance
guys,
I was just an ordinary person working in another industry when i was introduced to greenkeeping/groundsman activities in a school,I havent looked back since,the way I see it common sence,ability and education all go hand in hand,i did it doing courses while i was working.
2 Mar 2004 by emtem
education
Sports turf degrees available in this country take the form of both full time and part time with the added bonus of being able to study some of them 'online'.
This is a great advantage to those students who have had the benefit of workplace education in the form of NVQ's and can carry on with their studies, putting into practice the theory that they study online.
This style of study doesn't suit everyone, but at least there are options available.
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