25 Jan 2004 by The Author
A Sad State Of Affairs...
Recently, and totally by accident, I overheard a conversation regarding my own personal contributions to this website.
I wont say what they were, or who said it as I would then be stooping to their low level. I contribute to and also use this site as a way of both passing on and gaining information in the hope that both Myself and others will benefit. Its a shame that other people are so fickle that all they can do is mock when they really need to look at their own shortcomings as no-one is perfect and I for one do not claim to be. What I do claim to be is someone who works hard-as most in this profession do-enjoys my work and is prepared to both share and seek knowledge that could benefit myself or those around me and this profession.
If I were to say who and what has been said, it would make me no better than them, not that I think I am.
What I will say is that jealousy is a terrible thing and small minded people who let this get in the way must have even less work to do than they claim I do.
As A result of this, my contributions will be greatly reduced which is a shame as i enjoyed interacting with others in the profession, and like to think that others too found them interesting, though I do appreciate my contributions wont interest everyone. In turn, if people continue to back-bite, it will only lead to one thing-sites like this one not being able to serve the great purpose they do.
Anonymous.
26 Jan 2004 by mikeb
what a shame
What a shame we don't know who you are, if you contribute as much as you say you do then ignore small minded rubbish and benifit the rest of the people who i am sure love your contributions.
26 Jan 2004 by Clive
Sad state
Pity no identification perhaps this is in fact the main issue people come onto the site and they do mock and then hide behind silly names which i am sure will be posted below this comment.
Many of us do try to help and you will always have the fool and the ones with blinkers on. But i am sure that those who have real problems do get the help and advice they need.
It would be a great shame to lose what is a great method of communication to spoil it but then it only takes one bad apple.
Perhaps the IOG and BIGGA have it right with their message boards no hiding names out front.
Whilst i agree with the writer of the original comment i feel that not contributing is only going back to the dark ages we are professional people who sadly have a few prats among us giving in to them just makes them look an awful lot bigger than they really are.
Clive Liddiard MSc
26 Jan 2004 by PAZ
To The Author
rise above it my friend, or perhaps they - who ever they are- have won! then the losers are the majority of the pitchcare members, then its our lose.
Chin up and carry on contributing I say!
26 Jan 2004 by m
clive and all
while i also agree with most of the comments that mike chris and yourself have made! i disagree with the fact you think all people should identify themselves! Why you cry! one simple reason like myself, coming on to PC is great to find out what people are up to how they are treated at thier work place how their boss compares to others and on and on!!!!!! point is some will be punished for the views! like that of view of so many others ! the way one feels is free to AIR on this site. with in reason of course or am I wrong? many people come on here and sing many wonderful songs! "if YOU know what I mean" all the stories are about good things to learn from as well as things some may not. its free to voice your views but you may not have a big bad boss dictating to you? you are the boss? so last thing one of my ex bosses said to me!!!! you earn respect you dont beat it out! give all their chance to voice their view and then take it in ! dont loose it be calm this is our only shot at life so do the best you can and that is YOUR BEST ! CHEERS M
26 Jan 2004 by Clive
Agree in part
Whilst i agree in part of what you are saying i also know that some people may be embarassed by the questions they need to ask.
In a modern society should it not be that all should be able to talk freely without the fear of retribution from a Head etc.
No body should feel embarassed by asking what to some is a very simple question.
As an industry we try to set exceptional standards and majority of us carry out our work with great pride and dedication, we should all be able to speak freely but for it to count surely only a true name will give it the creditbility it surely must need.
A site of this nature should surely not be a slag of the boss. grounds that is for the pub and when he or she is not about.
The site is about communication and for those who have the knowledge others require and the passing of that knowledge it is about an industry that gets disgruntled about issues going on.
If a point is worth airing surely it must be worth backing.
Clive Liddiard MSc
sad state of affairs
As a Groundsman/Greenkeeper for many years I have always been aware of criticism levelled at me behind my back (usually by people who have no idea of what they are talking about) sometimes overheard by others who passed it on to me and probably took delight in doing so! my stock answer was I am not bothered but of course it did bother me and sometimes could be on my mind for weeks.
I learned to cope over the years with these throw-away remarks which can be very demoralising and finally became immune to them and in later years would deal with kind of thing through the proper channels i.e. Chairman of Grounds/Greens.
You say in your message that in future your contributions will be greately reduced and that you enjoyed interacting with others in the profession . I agree it would be a shame as you would now be handing these people a double victory, managing to upset and annoy you and with self punishment preventing you participating in something you enjoy doing which is passing on your experience.
I suggest you have a re-think before you withdraw your expertise from the site and remember that the people you overheard will not care but the rest of the members will including a lot of young people who are constantly searching for information from experienced Groundsmen/Greenkeeper.
P.S. Get back on the keyboard and write an article, that's your answer to your critics.
Stupid state!
I agree with most of the above.
Mr Author, you have clearly written the above in an angry or disapointed state. I hope you have recovered from this and can see you've made a mistake.
I say the following as a good friend will tell you your faults - in a spirit of constructivenous. YOU are being small minded! You seem to think that because one or two people have bad things to say about your notes on these pages, that they represent the majority view. They patently do not. All the above, I, and I'm sure the majority of readers, want any helpful contributions that are on offer. If you think your articles fit this description then I'm sure we all want you to continue posting them. Please keep doing so if you can.
If people in all sorts of walks of life declined to express their views because of some criticism, justified or not, then no one would commit to anything and no progress would be made. In writing on these or any other pages you are exposing yourself to comments. If you can't deal with it why don't you write anonymously?
On the subject of anonymity, unless something is especially controversial, I do not see the need for full disclosure of name - nor, I agree, is there usually any harm but it should be the choice of the author.
26 Jan 2004 by The Author
Not so...
I do not feel I am being small minded, and nor do I think that it is the majoritys views, quite the opposite actuallly.
I do though take on board all the points raised above as well.
What I dont like though is the fact that people/individuals like the one I initially wrote this comment regarding are nice as pie on the occasions you meet up with them, as they have been in my case, but once away from you they slaughter you to all who will listen to their big mouth. Obviously this is a part of life in general and not just in this profession-what i dont like is the fact that they cant say it to your face, especially when people in the profession who dont know the person at all, yet listen and believe them because of who the person/people are, and the people who do know them,know that they are talking out of their backside and just laugh at their comments behind their backs too, thus creating a vicious circle.
Yes, I may be in the wrong for having this opinion, but at the same time i am not afraid to say it out loud, albeit anonymously.
keep writing
I agree with many members who want you to continue writing and submitting articles for pitchcare.
Its what this web site is all about sharing skills and experiances however great and small.
This site is unique and has the potential to become a very valuable asset for all who use it. and the success of it is down to everyone who uses it. without the articles and information contributed by members the site would stagnate.
I personally have enjoyed reading and commenting on this site. It exciting to find out whats been posted and you can communicate your own views and learn from other peoples experiances and knolwedge.
the ability to share this knolwedge is what makes this site a valuable asset to us all.
State of independence
Author
Don't worry about the sort of people who want to whisper behind your back regardless of how hurtful it feels- these people must have time/energy to burn, something I rarely find in my working day (apart from posting on Pitchcare!).
Over the years we've all heard similar things, but as you learn with loam, 'mud sticks', and if those people wish to lessen their own reputations then so be it. We never run down individuals or other companies, if they are in the industry they must be doing something right after all, so stick to your guns, keep doing the right things and lighten up, if they want to run you down then you're more of a threat to them than vice versa.
And keep supporting Pitchcare with your thoughts and views, that's what keeps this site one step ahead!
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
Working together...
Author and others,
It does sadden me on occassion when I hear negative comments made towards fellow groundsmen. In an industry such as this, where there is a constant struggle for recognition, appreciation and reward, you'd presume that solidarity would reign supreme.
Please don't shy away. Everyone has their own opinion, and if you let a negative one stop you from voicing yours, it'll be a real shame. You can't always be right, but if someone thinks you're wrong but won't challenge you directly, treat their comment with the contempt it deserves.
Best regards,
Ellie.
27 Jan 2004 by Editor
Articles and postings
I have just returned from the STMA conference in the US, and am catching up with the business. Unfortunately I could only get restricted access out there and I was also busy preparing two seminars- it isn't the jolly that everyone thinks it was!
There are a couple of points that I would like to make.
1) Everybody has the right to freedom of speech, and I have explained the Pitchcare stance of anonimity on this site on a number of occassions. We moderate the boards, removing foul and abusive language/ libelious comments and always e-mail the culprit responsible-stating that they will be publically named and shamed and their membership withdrawn if they continue. To a large extent, people have learned to use the site appropriately. The only way of making the system foolproof would be to charge a membership fee to members, similar to the IOG and BIGGA websites for which you already have to be a paid member of the organisation to access.
However the purpose of anonimity is to allow people to ask questions that they feel embarassed owning up to. The purpose of keeping the site free is to make information, advice and expertise available to all.
2) It saddens me to think that someone who has enjoyed writing contributions to the site, is reconsidering their future offerings-following other's comments.
When I visit the US there is nothing but encouragement and enthusiasm for others in the Industry. They pat each other on the back and it makes you feel great to be part of it all. I fail to understand why we in the UK, tend to 'knock' the efforts of others at every opportunity.
I know that there are people on this page who are prepared to put their necks on the line, always at the risk of ridicule-but to all these people and the many others who contribute to Pitchcare and to the Industry in general, the day is coming when rewards will come.
Even to this day, we at Pitchcare and many of those associated with the website have been viewed with scepticism, openly and privately criticised-but we remain thick skinned in the strong belief that this is our future, I mean a growing community of 7500 people can't be wrong.
There have been many battles to fight and no doubt there will be more-but each time you feel depressed and battered, you stand back up, brush yourself down and continue on. Life is to important to let the feeble slack jaws ruin it for you.
3) Addressed specifically to Author.................Jealousy is a terrible affliction, which burns right at the soul of some people. It ruins their lives and if you let them take a grip, it can ruin yours.
It is therefore gratifying to know that so many people are there when you need them most. Keep your head held high, you do a great job!
30 Jan 2004 by mikeb
now i understand
I now understand why people go on without identifying themselves when you post a question and you get a joker calling you stupid,makes you wonder why you would bother at all,i did think however it would take a bit longer than it did for the idiots to come out of the woodwork
30 Jan 2004 by Pete
Stupid
From which thread are you talking about mike?
30 Jan 2004 by mikeb
stupid
on the general comments,I met another groundsman that used weed killer in his line marker and wanted to discuss it
Sensitivity
We are a sensitive lot aren't we.
mikeb: 5 replies to your weedkiller question, one says stupid. Apart from the fact that he clearly did not read your message properly, so who is the stupid one, you should not get upset by this. I presume that you don't know each other (and you would probably like it to stay that way!) so, unpleasant as it may be, you should not take it personally. As you wrote in your reply at the top of this page, ignore it.
With 7,000 plus members, there are bound to be some amongst us who behave rudely, negativevly and without consideration. From my limited experience of messageboards, this site is generally peopled by well behaved and informative contributors. There have been some outstanding discussions (the best, The Petition Board/Big Al/How do we move Forward) and some that should be deleted (The petition Board/Dom/Pitchcare.com Membership Numbers). The Messageboard is the main reason I visit the site and I do so because people like you, mikeb, and The Author, and many others who use their real or other names, post questions and answers which help me improove my lot as a groundsman.
Please do not let your sensitivities to the words of negative people prevent you contributing on these pages.
31 Jan 2004 by mikeb
cheers
cheers mate good words at the right time
kind regards
mike
31 Jan 2004 by Editor
Words
The internet doesn't always convey wit and humour as it should, but on the whole these boards are used for all the right reasons.
Most of the idiots have calmed down and we moderate the messges as best as we can.
There is a fine line between freedom of speech and libelous/crass comments so I hope that we endeavour to do the right thing.
We have addressed the subject of anonimity many times, but while Pitchcare remains a free resource it is virtually impossible to implement. Anyone can gain an identity other than their own, via yahoo or hotmail e-mail accounts.
As a Groundsman, lecturer and founder of this site I felt and still feel that anonimity allows many people to come forward and ask the simple but nonetheless important questions that they would otherwise be to embarrassed to ask. This is clearly demonstarted regularly on this site.
Unfortunately there are the brainless few who choose to use it for less favourable comments. I am certainly not against constructive criticism-and often pass on threads about products and machinery queries to the appropriate manufacturers for their response. Again there are examples of this on these boards.
However I would like to stress that we at Pitchcare are aware of the person/s who leave unwelcome comments and do take action when required.
It takes more than the mindless few to spoil the party..:)
messages
I again endorse what the above messages are conveying, and totally agree with the editor and many of the members.
That this facility offers a unique opportunity for all who use this site to exchange ideas , experiances and skills and knowledge.
people should not be put off from exercising there right to free speech, but at the same time have respect for all who participate and use this site.
we have seen 19 replys to the Authors concerns, that in its self shows the intrest and commitment from members to voice there feelings and to be heard.
May well it continue.
2 Feb 2004 by Big D
Why Worry
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and just because someone doesn't agree with it, doesn't make it a bad one. Who cares what anyone thinks of anyone else, this site is designed to openly discuss ANY and ALL issues relating to our industry. Keep the banter and ideas coming and leave the knockers in the jungle in AUSTRALIA!
Big D
3 Feb 2004 by mikeb
why worry
david
i agree everyone is entitled to an opinion like your somewhat confussing in australia comment,however there is no need to insult anyone!
i'm a celebrity
Get me out of here now David's brought Jordan onto our site!
All opinions are valid that's the beauty of Pitchcare. If they get abusive or offensive then you can be sure Dave, Johnboy & Co will screen them, otherwise everyone has a right to their say- long may it remain so.
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
3 Feb 2004 by mikeb
see ya
you blokes have got to be joking i am doing something else with my life,i now have a cold drink in my hand and i am going to watch the sun go down over the most panoramic view you blokes have even dreamed of, on an evening at 9:10 pm the temp is a balmy 18 degrees as a cruise boat drifts slowly by i can just hear the voice of the cruise director telling a bunch of poms how wonderfull it is here,any way enjoy the rest of the winter fellas and occasionally think of me at my worst drink in hand in the middle of winter - worst temp 10 degrees laughing at my brief attempt to find my roots and somehow interact with people who i thought would have been like minded, the sad fact is i was british born and i now can trully say i am ashamed of being british,and loammeister who the #### is jordan?dont bother answering,
see ya fellas
it could have been good
my point exactly
Ok Author, just goes to show we can all have an opinion, and I like everyone else can express it, even at the risk of being parodied for simply trying to explain an answer to another- maybe next time someone tries to help mikeb they may not bother, but you can't stop debate and people trying to help. Not slanging, just replying, as Editor said, humour doesn't always come across well on the net.
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
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