Message Board - Cricket: slow and low wicket through neglect
2 Feb 2011 by Charlie Bollans
i'm after some general advice, our wicket has become very low and slow over the years through neglect of our previous groundsman. he's now moved on and as we are small local club with restricted finance its left to myself and another player with very little proper ground experience to prepare it for the year ahead.
basically the program followed has been that loam has been added at the end of each season, virtually no rolling taken place until Mid March and then only on the wickets due to be played that week (so some are only rolled maybe twice a year) and generally no seed or fertilizer added, this has been the case for circa 10 years which has resulted in a very clay topped surface with a fair bit of moss that is very soft resulting in very little and uneven bounce.
reading the advice here there is so much info i'm lost with what would help us or not.
we are limited on equipment with one heavy roller and a light roller (about 2-300Kg) and several light movers that wont cope with additional weight added.
does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can start to get our wicket in to a decent playing surface.
many thanks in advance!
2 Feb 2011 by pacman75cricket
Start by taking samples/cores to find out what is causing your problems could be many reason resulting in slow low pitches
2 Feb 2011 by paul kelsey
Would have thought that very soft moss would need getting rid of as a starter.
2 Feb 2011 by Charlie Bollans
thanks, do you know of any companies that can do this? we dont have any equipment and to be honest would be struggling to understand what we are looking for.
2 Feb 2011 by Martin Wythe
Where are you?
2 Feb 2011 by Charlie Bollans
north Notts,
2 Feb 2011 by pacman75cricket
can use sampler or could cut out a section to view profile under the surface.
Alternatively get your local pitch advisor in to give to advise/ report on your surface
2 Feb 2011 by Neil Dixon
Charlie, your best bet in the first instance would be to get the advice of a local trusted Groundsman, give a local school or club a ring and see if they can pop by and take a look.
Not really a lot of point looking at a sample if you don't know what you are looking for or even how to identify what it is being described, but some basic rules if you take a core sample
should be no or minimal organic material in the top 10mm
loam type should be consistent throughout, with no layers (like a gateaux)
no breaks / splits in the loam
see if you can spot any roots
If all of these are as they should be, then a good chance the problems you are experiencing will be based around preparation / maintenance practices or cosmetic issues as opposed to anything more serious.
2 Feb 2011 by panch
Hi Charlie,
I'm based in NE Derbys and would be more than happy to help in any way i can. You can contact me on 07803 120837 alternatively PM me some contact details and i can contact you.
Mark
2 Feb 2011 by phil hauton
I am also in north Notts, I only have a couple of years experience of preparing pitches etc but would be glad to try and help in any way I could, I also have acces to advice from of our previous (retired) groundsman. Send me a private message or I can give you my mobile number if you prefer.
2 Feb 2011 by Charlie Bollans
thanks everyone for your help, its much appreciated, I'll be speaking to the powers that be controlling funds and see if they can spare some to put the comments in to practice.
to those that have offered help i'll try and get back to you all soon, but there have been numerous offers so may take a day or two!
thanks again all
3 Feb 2011 by Minormorris64
'virtually no rolling taken place until Mid March '
Intrigued by this comment, I think you'll find thats the case with 99.9% of Club grounds. over the last 5 years a roller hasn't touched our square until the 1st week of April.
What goes around, comes around
3 Feb 2011 by Vic Demain
This is one of that biggest problems in this modern world. Everybody is making huge demands which are unattainable. Every player wants to play on surfaces with no inconsistency but unfortunately, they do not have the manpower, machinery, finance or resources to support such demands.
Back in the 60's/70's we played village cricket on fields that the cows were on 2 hrs before the game. One ball rolled, the others shot, no one complained, we got on with it because we understood the conditions. Clubs pulled a hand roller, pushed a push mower and top dressing was taken from mole hills.
Village cricket on the village greens.
3 Feb 2011 by barry glynn
Ah those were t' days! The 1870's. 
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
3 Feb 2011 by mark pembroke
i played a game where the center spot of the football pitch that a game had just finished on, was on a length. We bowled them out for 6, and they were 5 for no wicket ! Beat that.
3 Feb 2011 by barry glynn
Mark
That is quality! ( or not as the case may be)
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
3 Feb 2011 by Vic Demain
Was that the Antigua Recreation Ground Mark? We were there hey Barry.
3 Feb 2011 by Greg Spence
Charlie,
I'm a volunteer groundsman and inherited a very similar problem 4 years ago.
In my view firstly it's a bit too late to do anything major.Iron removes moss and you can get this from Rigby Taylor who also supply fertilisers and top soil. This will only kill it off, turn it black, and ideally you then need to scarify or rake it off.This is hard work and too much raking now could affect the surface so I would suggest you just put up with it looking at bit black and let club members know what to expect.
The next thing is to start planning for end of season renovation for which their are endless articles available. It really helps to know what the thatch,rubbish on square, is like before you start so you need to take some core samples and get advice.
In brief this preparation means kill off moss. heavily scarify, top seed and cover with top soil about 8 x 20 kg bags per strip.For top soil you must get advice on what the square is comprised of or what has been used before.
I would then advise over winter you put down a turf hardener, also available from Rigby Taylor.This should strength then sward and kill off moss.
It's then down to a rolling programme to get hardness back and hopefully some bounce.
Hope this helps
Greg
3 Feb 2011 by eddyinfreehold
Charlie
For my contribution, as well as all the excellent advice above, I would add three things.
Be patient. It might take 3 to 5 years to see significant improvements, but everything you do will chip away at the neglect and do some good.
Make absolutely sure you use the same loam as has already been put on your square. If you're not sure contact the former groundsman or check with your supplier, the club treasurer should have accounts and invoices.
I would seriously consider a groundsman's course, starting with the Level 1, parts 1 & 2 in Autumn Renovation and Spring Renovation. If you can attend an Autumn course before you do your own square at the end of the 2011 season you will be very well informed.
Best of luck and enjoy the work. As you are a player as well, you will appreciate what it takes to prepare a surface and maintain it.
3 Feb 2011 by mark pembroke
i wish it was Vic, a bit more exotic than behind farnham royals ground.
3 Feb 2011 by Vic Demain
Mark, had it been Royals ground, I would have expected Steve Shave to get the wickets and knock off the runs on his own.
3 Feb 2011 by Manson
Charlie,
I was in an identical situation some years ago. Lack of knowledge as much as neglect (although there was) from my predessor with the same result as you. Through a contact in the fine turf machinery trade my also ran older juniors (i was actively coaching then as well) played a groundstaff team from a well known private Surrey school. The discussion and comments in the bar afterwards were truly enlightening and not a little embarrassing. It seemed they had formed a faily strong opinion of our track. The result was a'thing' was produced and core samples taken The resultant advice started the improvements. We didn;t have the equipment or expertise, even now some might say, to do much ourselves but the professionals came down a couple of times with advice and help and did the esr for a few years. the rest is history.
what I would say is follow the advice already given, join the IOG and take the 1a & 1b it was a real eye opener for me and well worth the time and money. Also being a member of our county GA is a great benefit, again in advice and equipment on the trailer.
Its not going be perfect overnight but you will make improvements and I can say that frustrations and disapointments are well tempered by the feeling of pride and satisfaction with what you will achieve. We will never know it all and can only keep on learning. I wish you the best of luck.
3 Feb 2011 by Charlie Bollans
already spoken to a few on our committe tonight to hope to get things moving, seems like i may have persuaded those holding the purse to send a couple of us on a course!
to add to some of the comments above, its not that the club is reluctant to spend money without good reason, its that we are a very small club in the middle of no where on a private estate that has suffered a lot over the last 5 years through 3 other large clubs in the area making vast improvements to facilities and ultimately losing players to these which is understandable. therefore what little money we have has to go in to absolute essentials. i hate to say it but we already predict that unless we can turn it around we only have enough funds for another 2 maybe 3 seasons.
but it can be quite embarrassing as we play at a fairly high level, which tends to mean playing on excellent wickets away only to come to ours and hold our head in shame!
Minormorris64 - my point on rolling came from reading the forums on here which recommend building up from a light roller from feb- as i put previously ours were only rolled prior to a match, as we have 14 wickets it means some havent been rolled at all in 2 or 3 years.
thanks all.
3 Feb 2011 by mr wood
hi there i dont know anything bout preparing cricket wickets but i do know about the size of your club etc bit like our football team in small village and bigger better teams around us but i found that if you right to companies and businesses in th area and a little further they are willing to help us smaller clubs. I ve done fund raising for the club, sent letters to companies even some to the FA, chelsea to name a few and have generated around £600+ this season alone into the club people will donate even in this recession and we cant thank them enough just takes a bit of effort and work......
i ve done this all myself as well as being voluntry groundsman, joint manager, player, club and match secretary so good luck
3 Feb 2011 by A J Last edited 3 Feb 2011
Well charlie, You have made your first positive step! coming out of a grounds meeting and been listen too. good for you. communication is the the key. now take them up on thier offer for the next step And get in touch with the PC team to advise you how to get on one of thier courses.
Where are you based charlie? As mentiond above, sorce local clubs/schools for advice from experienced cricket groundsman, like on here! will be only too happy to help?
Best of luck.
Grow in grace...........
4 Feb 2011 by jlawrence
Charlie, yes you'll find the courses invaluable - there may well be some funding (from leagues or county) towards the cost of them.
Just as important is to get to know other groundsmen in your area. Start with your county advisor. He'll be able to introduce you to those who'll be able to help you most - I'm sure someone on here will be able to PM you his number.
As for starting rolling in Feb. You'll find that 'some' of the people on here prepare grounds at (or very near to) county level. Preseason for those guys starts very early hence why they have to start rolling early. Myself, I rarely manage to get anything on the square prior to March (at the earliest) and will almost certainly still be preseason rolling well into April. As you'll learn, it's all about the condition of the ground. Don't try and do things unless conditions are conducive to success.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
4 Feb 2011 by barry glynn
Charlie
You ve come to the right place for advice mate. As Jon says, most club grounds are different from county grounds. I dont know any clubb grounds around my way that start preseason rolling until late March.
What with the weather this winter , I havent managed to spike once or cut the square at all unti last week.
Try and get on a foundation course and befriend a local experienced groundsman ( a couple of pints could do the trick). I have found my ECB advisor very helpful as well. Dont pretend you know anything and listen and if people realise you are keen, they will soon help. Groundsmen are a miserable lot but very helpful.(I was halfway there to begin with cos Ive always been a grumpy old sh*t
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
4 Feb 2011 by Aintgottaclue!!
Started rolling yesterday, went down nice and tight
I may cut grass, but i'm not green !!
4 Feb 2011 by Vic Demain
Was only thinking this morning, here in West London conditions are ideal , now where did I put the key to the autoroller?
4 Feb 2011 by barry glynn
Id only be rolling the worm casts in!!
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
4 Feb 2011 by eddyinfreehold Last edited 4 Feb 2011
Had a look yesterday, still way too soft to even think of rolling. Grass not growing but has avoided damage when frozen because we are just about fully fenced off now. Only just thawed out in fact. Jobs are litter picking and hedge laying this month.
I do have some interesting diseases on a couple of dying sycamores. One is truly revolting as all the branches are running with some sort of white fluid along cracks in the bark. Any tree experts here?
4 Feb 2011 by Minormorris64
If i got our Atco with the seat (and my ample frame obviously ) onto our square at the moment I reckon it would soon be a couple of inches lower than the outfield 
What goes around, comes around
4 Feb 2011 by Andy Matthews
spiked 2 squares yesterday for the last time, I could have easily rolled both of them which surprised me.
So come on Charlie where are you, myself and Panch have both offered our services, but have had no response which is fine, I am sure theres plenty of good offers, but I have made a guess at Clumber park and he's going for Thoresby park, there could be bacon sarnies resting on this . It would be interesting though to know where you are located.
4 Feb 2011 by Peter Robinson
Eddy, interesting you say the grass is not growing yet, I'm a couple of miles north of you, I've been cutting the square once a fortnight since christmas, getting 1 box of clippings off each time. No fertiliser applied since beginning of November just 1 aplication of sulfate of iron, managed to spike 3 times prior to the frost down to 100mm' won't be getting the Bomag out until sometime in March
4 Feb 2011 by Charlie Bollans
Andy, well it looks like your not getting the bacon sarnies! :) and im impressed with your knowledge of grounds around here.
been stupidly busy this week but will no doubt contact one or both of you in the near future, the offer of advise is very much appreciated.
needless to say if you did pop down and help the butties would most def be on me!
4 Feb 2011 by Andy Matthews
Let us or Panch know then, he had an advantage on me as he used to play in the Bassettlaw as well and I got 'em yesterday, he is helping run a level 1 course at Treeton CC on the edge of Rotherham/Sheffield for spring and pre season work on the 3rd of April you may well find this very useful.
4 Feb 2011 by jontaylor
Andy,
If he's at Clumber Park then he will need help with moles too. I was there before christmas and I'd never seen so much carnage to an outfield. Lovely spot for cricket though.
The ciderman rolls
4 Feb 2011 by eddyinfreehold
Peter, pretty much the same as you in terms of fert and spiking though I'm amazed you've been on once a fortnight. Are you on the rotary or the cylinder? We've had three big freezes, the last one has finally gone through on Weds. The Dec/Jan one lasted nearly five weeks to 5" down. I never walk on a frozen top so have stayed off. Warton must be a microclimate or we are in a frost hollow which is much more likely. We still have no growth but would be aiming for a run with the rotary in the next week or so if the wind stays up and the rain stays away. Off to McGaffs to pick up the machinery in the middle of the month.
5 Feb 2011 by Peter Robinson
Eddie I'm at Carnforth although I help out at Warton on a voluntry basis( I cut their square on Tuesday for the first time).Since the thaw after christmas we have only had a few light frosts here that have mostly thawed by mid afternoon. I cut the square at carnforth with my own 20 inch saxone cylinder set at 20mm, its ready for cutting again now, I never go on the square with a rotary, (not saying you shouldn't , just that I don't)
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