13 Apr 2011 by Pat Skires Last edited 13 Apr 2011
As title.
What height do you guys cut your Mendip pitches to and what tips would you give to prevent deep footholes?
Skires
Hi Pat
A local ground on Mendip tends to keep his HOC up on his Mendip square in an attempt to retain more moisture in the profile. Mendip is the lightest of the proprietary loams and needs to be kept more moist closer to games than other loams to avoid any surface disturbance during matches.
With regards to footholds the same applies, in that being less heavy than some loams the Mendip can break up more readily. If you consider using a heavier loam in your footholds or a 50/50 mix of your Mendip with another heavier loam, your footholds may last longer and become more hard wearing.
Good luck
The light at the end of the tunnel is not a train
I "worked" with Mendip for eight years on uncovered tracks and as the climate here in North Lancs is damp I rarely had one dry enough to crack. I cut down to 3 mm but I probably should have stopped at 5 mm.
As for foot tholes you will find that you WILL NOT get two 50 over games without meaningful repairs to the "wicket" ends.
So try as Loamy suggests and mix in a heavier loam for your repairs.
B T W Germination is good with Mendip.
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
13 Apr 2011 by Pat Skires Last edited 13 Apr 2011
Cheers
1 week with this stuff and I've had enough already. I'll repair with Boughton.
How can this stuff be advertised for use on a low maintenance square. You have to cut a new wicket every drinks break and leave more grass on than a hippy's hairdo.
One clever fellow from the visiting side commented last weekend ... " Why is this pitch so green giving the weather we've had ... our pitch is white and is a road "
I told him that I could easily have made that pitch white but It was so dry I'd be brushing teeth off a length at tea.
League rules allow no watering after Thursday lunch. It had chucked it down a couple of times last week and the square was bone dry a couple of hours later. Ground on top of a mountain with a permanent gale.
I can see there being some of those funny showers on a Saturday morning just before the umps turn up.
Skires
13 Apr 2011 by Mike
Pat - rather than look to "what height to cut with Mendip", look to establish what height you should cut for your environment/microclimate. What height works at one site won't necessarily work at another, irrespective of what loam you are using.
Trial and error with your loam, your seed, your environment.
Mike
I would try some flat sheets to reduce evapotranspiration, something like a coconut matting, use it for periods to slow the drying process as required.
Don't talk to me about Contractors Wonka, I am one myself......
Cheers Mike.
You're right. I wasn't asking what height to cut mine. I'll work that out, eventually. I was just asking for a head start by asking what height others on here cut theirs to see if theirs a ball park as opposed to the heavier loams.
Cheers Steve.
I'll play about and see what I get.
Skires
Pat,
I don't want to be rude, but.....
Now, there's a provocative start.
Is the problem the loam or the previous ten years' maintenance?
There is a lot of discussion of loams on this site right now, but give ten grounds the same loam and you'll still get ten different squares. And cutting the track at 10mm rather than 3mm won't make that much difference.
If you are thinking of picking teeth off a length, then sorry, it's not the loam, it's the quality of your square.
I've played on utter cr@p tracks based on several different loams and the only consistent factor was quality (lack of) of the past few years groundsmanship.
Taking chunks out of the surface is not affected by height of cut of the playing surface - it is a sub-surface fault, not a supra-surface fault.
May not help you if you are new to the square.....but rather than blame the loam, sort out the root cause of the problem.
ps. I use Ongar (cos I like it) and have no axe to gring re Mendip
The ciderman rolls
JT, with respect, the much lower binding strength of mendip means that it will break up much quicker and when it's completely dried out during a match there's nowt you can do about that. Once it's started breaking up during a match there's every chance of it spitting.
Leaving more grass on may protect the surface some what but to what extent I'd not like to say. You need to leave more moisture in a mendip track compared to an Ongar track.
The root cause could well be that they are attempting to play a standard of cricket on a loam which doesn't have a binding strength suitable for that standard.
I don't know if Mendip loam is like Surrey loam, in which there are multiple differing manufacturers and none of the loams are actually the same ? For example, there are Surrey loams with a 40%+ clay content and some with <20%, is it the same with Mendip ?
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
14 Apr 2011 by Pat Skires Last edited 14 Apr 2011
Thankyou Jon
I'm sort of half with you fella.
The last time I tested a number of loams in the lab the Mendip performed poorly. In the motty pressure tests it performed poorly compared to Boughton, Kaloam etc.
On inspecting 50 grounds a year locally ( for many years )we constantly see problems with Mendip squares. The problems are in dry weather when the pitches are cut short and the ball has gone through the top. We don't see those problems ' any where near as often ' with other loams. When there is plenty of moisture still in the pitch this obviously doesn't happen. The other problem is the footholes. We see Mendip squares with craters for footholes after just 1 game.
We are constantly advising groundsmen to try and leave a bit more grass on to help keep the moisture in to stop this happening. Most people have moved to a heavier clay loam and have been happy with the results.
Having said that, there is the odd ground that uses Mendip and produces decent tracks but they do leave 5 inches of grass on the pitch ( I may be being sarcastic there ... but they do leave a lot on ! ).
" Taking chunks out of the surface is not affected by height of cut of the playing surface "
I'd have to argue that if you shave a pitch down too early and the top then dries out then that pitch is open to the top breaking up ... so that is related to the hoc. The lower clay content in the Mendip means that it tends to hold less moisture and dries and breaks up quicker than the heavier clay loams ( less binding ability ). I'm happy to hear your view.
So ... I have no axe to grind re Mendip ... but experience hasn't exactly made me a great fan.
I've just put 20 years into a Kaloam square. For my sins, I find myself this year ( from March ) looking after a Mendip square. Yup, you are right, it wasn't great. Far too much thatch ( which isn't going to help re surface issues ) and Jim had to be attended to.
Plenty of psr and 2 weeks prep on the 1st track. I left 5mm on it and it actually played quite well but after 2 weeks prep I'm used to getting 3 weeks work out of a pitch ( with a bit of tweaking of the ends ). This has had 1 game and the ends have fallen to bits. So it's probably the ends that I'm more frustrated with. I'll do what the lads above have suggested and I'll fill those with Boughton.
I totally agree with your ethics that a good groundsman can make the best of a square and a poor groundsman can c*ck up the best of squares ... but all other things being equal the heavier loams will cope better in dry spells? I can't wait to see the 85mph guys bowling on this pitch during a dry spell ( this club was promoted last year and the there are a great bunch of guys at the club ). I'll have to water in between overs.
Maybe I need give the old Mendip a chance this season ... and hey ... I don't have any choice.
I just wanted to see what the Mendip guys had to say on here re tips on height of cut, prep plans etc. Never too old to learn and all that.
Cheers
Skires
14 Apr 2011 by Pat Skires Last edited 14 Apr 2011
JLawrence
Thankyou and that's basically my point. Leaving more grass on will help to keep more moisture in so there is a relation ... I think.
I don't know for sure about Mendip but I suspect it's all the same stuff. These are brownish bags with 'SIFTED LOAM' written on them. That's pretty standard locally for Mendip.
Skires
try experimenting until you find a suitable combination,
You may find that cutting at 10mm but thinning out the sward works, or you may find cuting at 4mm with very little thinning works, really is trial and error.
Thanks Neil
Skires
Interesting stuff, I'm on gostd and I have problems getting decent germination but that might be down to me and not having anything decent to create a seedbed with. I am currently watering every day cos square is cracking and going a bit crumbly in places.
Mind you having little feet running all over it almost every night in season doesn't give one much chance to grow anything in season.
Being by the river surrounded by trees is probably a factor though.
But I always seem to be between a rock and a hard place, I.e, water to keep grass going but trying to get the coming pitch dry enough for decent pace and bounce
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
Perhaps a misunderstanding by me.
I thought the question was about length of grass rather than moisture content - but I accept one can affect the other.
Clearly, more grass cover will reduce rate of water loss from the surface.
Visit the square at Derbyshire CCC to see long grass. It works for them at first class level. When I saw it early season last year, the nets and practice track on square were at 15 - 20mm - but thinned and rolled in.
The ciderman rolls
Keep mendip for the flower pots. Absolutely not my cup of tea for cricket squares. May be fine down under but not on the surface please.
Start the change in September Pat. In fact you can pack out your craters at the ends with something more suitable as tracks come out of play, or even make a start in the tea interval.
Yes I agrees Grassers,
It'll be heavily scarified end of season and I'll get plenty of holes in it and dress with Boughton. I'll use Boughton in the end repairs.
I'm willing to eat a few spoonfuls of humble pie. I'm using that same pitch today for a 2's league game. I lifted and packed the ends from underneath and left grass on it all week and cut it to 5mm last night. It actually looks quite well and after another dry(ish) week ( a few heavy showers )the top surface hasn't deteriorated. We'll see how it plays today.
Next week sees the first 1st team home game. I've been thinning and rolling that pitch for a week or so. It's at 8mm at the mo and looks ok.
I'm used to a Kaloam square on a very very wet ground where you had to get at least 2 weeks prep into a new pitch as it took forever to dry and firm up. It looks like this place dries very quickly ... but we have had stupidly dry weather for this time of year.
Skires
16 Apr 2011 by Steve63 Last edited 16 Apr 2011
Interesting, I now have a mendip square on a wet silty ground, so drying too quick hasn't been an issue yet. (I am sure it will be)
I used to have a surrey square on a dryish loam ground.
The first innings today offered plenty of pitch marks on the "reluctant to dry" pitch, though footholes were not as bad as feared, will be an interesting season I think.
Ste
p.s. took HoC to 3mm thursday with some light scarifying, weather conditions meant that HoC was pretty irrelevant IMHO just was not going to dry
Don't talk to me about Contractors Wonka, I am one myself......
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