Message Board - Cricket: Cost of Koroing/re-lying a square.
25 May 2011 by Chris Thornton Last edited 25 May 2011
Hello, I am thinking aloud here and would like a guesstimate (ball park figure I think is the modern terminology) of having a 170 ft x 70 ft Cricket table Koroed , possibly to a depth of 2 inch.
Those of you who know what went on with Kaloam last Autumn will know why I am asking
Many thanks Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
25 May 2011 by pacman75cricket
Think it was 2grand to koro our 10 track square but that was going to be just the top few mm, think the major cost was going to be replacement of loam have decided what loam
25 May 2011 by Manson
£2300 to just skim the square two years ago. As Pacman says that doesn't include the loam and seed and labour needed afterwards. After beiing given profesional advice we decided that it was a luxury to far but we were not in the Kaloam soup.
25 May 2011 by Neil Dixon Last edited 25 May 2011
Chris, things to cosider to help keep cost down ;
tip arisings on site, this saves on skips / grab lorry costs etc
do you have a tractor / trailer to help with disposal of material - this saves the contractor having to bring in additional staff and machinery
consider asking for a day or half day rate, you may be suprised at what can be achieved in a short space of time , and to remove 2" seems excessive to me IMO
Regards
Neil
25 May 2011 by why me
Chris as you may remember I had the same kloam issue last year and actually korod our ground end of last season to remove chesil beach. Cost us just shy of £3k(inc vat) they took off about 10mm and we used arisings to fill uneven parts of the ground.
Square this season is lower and slower than it wasbut this will improve , grass coverage is slightly thin but we did do it late. All in all glad it was done no stones breaking through etc.Can highly recomend our contractor if you pm me and I will give you their contact details.
25 May 2011 by Barry Pace Last edited 25 May 2011
Chris,
Exactly as Neil says, obviously biggest costs are Koro itself, Tractor/Trailer/s for spoil, Delivery/Collection of Kit, removal of spoil from site. How far you run the arisings affects how quick the Koro works and whether you need one or 2 trailers to keep the Koro going.
How much you have to take off dictates how many passes, 2'' is lots of passes...
Your 'issues' would probably steer anyones view on job a little if they know it, personally I would cost a little more for the wear that is inevitable going to occur stripping the beach off the surface first.
In certain parts of country getting rid of Koro arisings is very expensive unless you can take it back to your farm, store it and sell it on in future like a couple of contractors. Keeping it on site, if you have room, will be cheaper, leaving it a week or 2 before removal will also make the more organic surface material bulk down a little. This is different however as the majority to be removed is soil and I am sure someone would charge you to take it away to sell it straight into another job as Topsoil.
Last point, are you sure about 2'' and if so why Koro and all the expense, at 2 inches you may as well dig it off. Be quicker and cheaper as kit would also spread new loam....
Thoughts as ever.....
Plastic.... it's The End I tell you... THE END!!!!
26 May 2011 by Chris Thornton
OK 1/2 would cure our problem but there is only about 1 1/2 inch to the red marl on to of the original silt so I thought hey lets get the lot out and start again but15 mm would suffice.
Just thinking aloud lads. Keep em coming, ta
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
26 May 2011 by jlawrence
If I was having 2 inch taken off I'd be looking to use a digger rather than the koro.
With the arisings, I'd be looking to spread them around the outfield if I were you - getting rid is expensive.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
26 May 2011 by Willard
Taking 2 inches out with a koro is no problem. If your block is softened up a week before with irrigation. You can remove 1/2 inch at a time no sweat. Some blocks in England are so soft, you could remove an inch at a time.
Just make sure the contractor ain't a cowboy. I've seen some really dodgy worn blades on some machines, leaving a poor uneven finish.
Groove up what's left to ensure a good key. Use a heavy duty groover like a graden.
Once you've added new clay. Laser level for best finish & cover with grow sheets.
Check the depth of your block. I wouldn't put back exactly what you've taken out. Some blocks are too deep. 100mm of clay on a compacted base will give you a good result.
Wouldn't spread spoil on outfield. Not very free draining material.
Always Looking For New Ideas
26 May 2011 by barry glynn
One thing Chris, don't go for the cheapest option/quote. Our square was koro'd by a bunch of cowboys and they screwed it up and we had to get it done again the following autumn.
Recommendation is always a good way
What do I do? I just cut the grass.
26 May 2011 by jlawrence
Willard although it's not very free draining stuff, by the time it's spread around an outfield there'll be such a tiny depth of coverage it won't matter what it is. I doubt you'd even get 1mm of coverage on most outfields.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
26 May 2011 by Chris Thornton
When I think about it half inch would get rid of most of the stones and saddles. our outfield is very uneven and is 6 inch or so of silt on top off very deep clay so, so long as someone else spreads it then that would be an option as drainage doesn't exist here.
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
26 May 2011 by tidod
Chris
If you go along the lines of Koroing your square to remove the offending layer of stones/pebbles make sure you use a reputable contractor in the first place local to your area if possible.
Go and see the standard and quality of their previous work and ask the opinion of the clubs themselves as to the work.
My gut feeling would be that you would only need to remove around 12mm of loam but all your levels should be restored using the laser at the same time.
I personally wouldn't use the spoil on the outfield.
Book the contractor early and ask him to come after the last league game - forget about meaningless end of season friendlies - your square is far more important!
Regards
Geoff Calcott
Warwickshire
26 May 2011 by jlawrence
The problem with that Geoff is that at some clubs the 'meaningless' end of season club stuff could pay for the koro'ing. We take much more money during our end of season inter club games than during the meaningful league games.
It's certainly very important to set the date early though. My end of season renovation dates are set as soon as the fixture list is published - after a set date the square is all mine.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
26 May 2011 by Chris Thornton
Here they have had enough Criket by the last game so that isn't a problem!!
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
26 May 2011 by Chris Thornton
Here they have had enough Criket by the last game so that isn't a problem!!
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
26 May 2011 by Grassman2011
Have you been using chisel or slit tines Chris?
26 May 2011 by Chris Thornton
Are you taking the ****??
These cracks are a result of the pebbles in the top of the root zone where the kaloam was put on deeper during levelling. The lines are where the scarification was done in March. You will see that they are at 45 degrees to the line of play.
We all know what is happening here. As the loam dries and shrinks it cracks, which is quite normal, and manageable but in this root zone a large percentage isn't clay loam but effing stones.
What is beginning to worry slightly is that whilst down South there is a drought up here it's the opposite and I am wondering what will happen if ever we get a Summer . These pics were taken in April FFS.
It is plain I think, that removing 10 to 12 mm of the surface will be the only way to achieve a long term solution, hence the original question.
Sorry Grassman only solid tines are used but I can see why you would think otherwise.
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
27 May 2011 by mackay Last edited 27 May 2011
If you do take 2" out then be prepared for a heafty price. Generally seaking (assuming you have a hard, well compacted square) you'll need to make several passes with the Koro to achieve this depth - You should preferably scarify with something like a graden in between passes to facilitate this since if doing multiple passes then the Koro blades can compact the surface, meaning you'll not get the depth you want and the contractor will get through a set or two of expensive blades. You'll also need to scarify well in at least two three directions afterwards.
Depending on the depth of loam you'll be left with then it might be worth it in the long term to added an inch (or two) of new loam - not for the faint hearted but can yield excellent results if well keyed in. - Just a thought.
...though as Willard suggests above this may not be neccesary.
27 May 2011 by Willard
I would take core samples & have them tested to determine the amount of soil you need to remove.
A block that has been wetted up a few times 1 week before you koro will be fine.
I've just koroed 17 cricket blocks in New Zealand. They are much harder than UK, 65% clay content.
Only got through 2 sets of blades. Main thing is the reel, our koro has a specially reinforced reel & plates. The original one can't cut it in NZ, all the welds go to sh1t!
Core samples take away the guess work. In and out of season.
Also, check how deep your block actually is, does it have a compacted base?
We use scoria in NZ, which is basically a gap 7 roading material.
4 inch base, then 4 inches of good clay will do a great job.
Always Looking For New Ideas
27 May 2011 by jlawrence
Chris, if you do take off 2 inches + and put new loam on, make sure it is keyed in correctly or you'll end up with the mess that I'm in.
Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.
27 May 2011 by Chris Thornton
I thought I had already accepted that 12 to 15 mm would be enough. I had thought initially that we could take out the entire depth of loam and red marl and start again but that is NOT going to happen. So, does anyone have an estimate to take 12 mm off a cricket square 17 pitches wide??
Many thanks
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
27 May 2011 by mackay
We had 12mm of filth removed at Hove 5 years ago by TTS and I think it was (very very rough ball park figure) a little more than 10K. This is extremely expensive though to be fair they did manage the project.
I use a local firm (grasstex/Active Grounds Maintenance) and I would expect them to quote about a third of this price.
In both cases you'd have to dispose of the spoil at you own cost.
27 May 2011 by eddyinfreehold
Chris, I reckon a back of the envelope figure would be 35 cubic metres for every 25mm you Koro off. Assuming a density of 1.5 tonnes per cubic metre, compacted with average moisture this would make it about 55 tonnes for every 25mm Koroed. On the assumpion you can get about 10-12 tonnes into an 8 yd skip and a skip costs say £130 +VAT then you're looking at about £800 per 25mm removed. Err on the high side and say £1000.
Inter Grab may be cheaper or a farmer needing some clay, though waste transfer licences come in to play then. Cheapest solution is to create an embankment somewhere on the perimeter of the ground where people can sit. Your only expense then is digger hire and seed.
Someone want to check my figures, they're back of an envelope?
27 May 2011 by Zippy
Chris,
I am well aware of the issues you had last year with the kaloam, as I was worried I would be in the same boat, but somehow managed to get a stone free batch.
Looking at your pics, you look to have a reasonable depth of kaloam on top of your red marl - are you sure you want to really remove and start again? Have the stones caused any problems this year ?
To me the cracks in the square just look like a combination of abnormal warm dry weather in April and slightly sparse grass coverage in places. Would any money not be better spent on extra seed at the end of autumn, concentrating on optimum germination and then a thorough winter aeration/feeding/treatment program to improve root density/depth and grass coverage ?
...just an alternative view.
27 May 2011 by eddyinfreehold
Looking at it again maybe 30 cubic metres is more accurate
28 May 2011 by Chris Thornton
Bd, yes I understand your sentiments but as I said if we have it done we will go no deeper than 12 mm and yes the grass cover was sparse because I had had to scarify again in late March to get some more pebbles out of the surface.
Since that dry weather I have rarely had the covers off the square to keep the rain off so the only cracking I am getting is shallow and comes along the scarification lines, so not a problem.
This year is a bit like Zebedee's ****....it's hard to tell where the spring went! =)
Chris
"He not busy being born is busy dying"
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