19 Aug 2004 by jimmy
worthless groundsman
i dont know what subject this should come under but i feel i have to say something about this.
i recently went for a job at a prestigous private school.
the grounds were 7 football pitches,9 rugby pitches, 2 full size 2nd gen' sand filled artificials, hard courts, 5 cricket sqaures and 4 double satelite wickets plus grass and artificial nets.
there was staff for the job and the main aim of the job was to over see the maintenance of all areas in a hands on manner.
it was a good sight with potential for improvemnet which always helps.
when it come down to the bottom line of how much, which unfortunatly cannot be ignored, i was told the salary they were offering was £15,500.
bit long winded to get to it but my point is is what chance does our industry have if people value the jobs in it like this and what sort of person would they get to do this job at this money. also what sort of pay are the staff getting who would be working for you.
i dont know how this can be resolved but i feel this totally under values groundsman and there ability to produce qaulity pitches for sport at a level where it is badly needed.
Worthless groundsman
Hi Jimmy I totally agree, the wages these schools are paying groundstaff is appalling. Was there a house being offered as part of the deal? if there was, it might reflect this low salary.
The other worrying factor, is what was the annual maintenance budget for materials and machinery?
What machinery do you have?
What hours are you expected to work? what other duties are you expected to undertake extra to maintaining the playing facilities. often you are expected to move furniture and other caretaker duties.
And on top of that you are often treated as a third class citizen.
However, the only way we can change the schools attitudes towards the employment and treatment of groundstaff is to raise the profile and proffessionalism of ourselves at every opportunity.
worthless groundsman
well laurence, if you want to raise the profile of the industry you had better learn how to spell furniture you dope instead of spelling it (funiture)
worthless
Jimmy, welcome to the world of the independent school. Groundstaff pay is notoriously low in this sector. I spent 6 years as Head Groundsman at a prestigious school where I improved the performance of the groundsstaff and quality of sports facilities. I am afraid it doesn't matter how good you are......you are still support staff and will be treated as so. Add on the poor wages it makes the overall package a joke.
To top it all off, if money has to be saved guess where it is cut from first?...............no prizes for guessing!!
One piece of advice if you do take up employment within the independent school sector....be thick skinned and do not take anything personally.
Furniture
Thank you Greengiant for pointing out my spelling mistake.
However, it would have been interesting to hear your comments and thoughts about the issues outlined in Jimmy's message?
worthless groundsman
Hi Jimmy,
You are a Groundsman, first and foremost.
There is some arguement on is it a trade or a profession?
If, as some believe, it is a trade then you are as skilled in your work as an electrician, carpenter or mechanic.
If it is a profession then you are in good company with other agronomists, agricultural engineers and plant geneticists.
So enough of the word "worthless"
I feel yet another article coming on, as the scenerio outlined by Jimmy is almost exactly why I for one, am so passionate when it comes to education, training and raising the profile of all Groundsmen.
I agree totally with Laurence.
Perhaps this school could be used as a "typical" situation for a discussion paper.
And so I too would be interested in the machinery, materials etc. budget as well as wages, staff amenities etc.
A full job description for the position applied for as well as staff numbers, break down of salary, costs would also be of interest.
Worthless
I have sympathy with Jimmy and fescue, but i think there are other factors that need to be taken into account.
1. What area of the country are you based, if up North the wages are generally lower, as so is the cost of living , i'm not saying that groundstaff should not be paid a pitance, but the salarys have to reflect the areas in which they are based.
2. As Lawrence said, is accomodation included, if on site this normally comes rent and utilities free, although it's not hard cash, it has to be taken into consideration.
3. The salary's they are offering, have to reflect other local industries e.g if, a solicitor is only being paid 17K, how can a Groundsman expect to be paid more than this. (though in some cases they should)
I am not saying that groundsmen should be poorly paid, only to look at what other people get paid in the area you are in, and you may find that EVERYONE is poorly paid.
I have the opposite problem of trying to find groundstaff staff, when we offer good wages, ( above the IOG Scale), because of the area where i am based, people cannot afford to relocate, and commuting is expensive, even on the wages the School i work for is offering.
.
19 Aug 2004 by jimmy
worthless groundsman
there was no accomodation offered with this position
hours were 40 per week plus over time
the machinary was average to say the least
worthless
To address Neils comment about area, I personally was paid a relatively good salary + accommodation. Which seems a good package until you have to do security rounds on top of you normal job & then there's the out of hours furniture moving...no choice on these..it's do this or lose the house..or we could let the taxman know that your not known as 'pastural' staff & you will pay the tax on the going rent rate!!
When I started at the school (1997) the ground staff rate of pay was under £10000 per annum which was less than an unskilled labourer!! Fortunately between myself and the GMB union we were able to get them pay rises, but it still is only just over the minimum wage.
Because of the conditions I left the school at the end of last year and I have to say that there is no stress and I am still in the industry ande working at making sure that people recognise that we are part of a profession and not people who 'just cut grass'.
Peter, I could tell you the levels of budget etc that would probably make your hair curl!!!!!!!
19 Aug 2004 by jimmy
worthless groundsman
replies to neils questions
the area was down south and going by the price and size of houses in the area i would say it was quite an affluent area where people were paid quite well.
worthless groundsman
Some interesting information from from statistics.gov.uk
In April 2003 report the average gross annual earnings for Gardeners, Groundsmen/groudswomen was 15404 (pounds) with an average weekly earnings of 304.5 and supposedly the average hours per week were 40.8
Amazing what can be done with statistics
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