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Message Board - Golf: USGA Greens

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robert horler
Posted 15 Sep 2011
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Posts: 35

Anybody got any thoughts about how long the lifespan of a Usga green could be in the Uk? Quite a lot of the greens constructed in the 90s are looking tired,certainly from what I have seen
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Ken Barber
Posted 15 Sep 2011 Last edited: 15 Sep 2011
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Posts: 1753

The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.

My USGA greens are nearly 40 years old and still working well. They drain consistantly and since implementing my compost tea program 3 years ago, the bents and fescues are starting to dominate.

I think there are a lot of USGA greens that are mis-managed. People think because they drain well, there is little need for aeration........ WRONG! (did I say that loud enough).

I verti-drain once each autumn, solid tine up to 100mm monthly and sarrel roll weekly. I never hollow tine because my thatch is managed by a strong, healthy population of micro-organisms. My root-zone is healthy and suprisingly, my CEC is over 7.

KB
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robert horler
Posted 15 Sep 2011
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Posts: 35

Thankf for your thoughts Ken,we were only discussing the history of Usga greens today,40 years old,when did they first originate?
Do you have any silver moss problems? Most of the sand greens in our area do.
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Ken Barber
Posted 15 Sep 2011
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Posts: 1753

The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.

Major problem on 1 green and a couple of isolated problems on a few others. I have never troubled with it before, but intend in trying to eradicate it this autumn. Any suggestions?

KB
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Torch
Posted 15 Sep 2011
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Posts: 158

The answer is None more black.

I heard that some high-end courses in the states depreciate the cost of building their greens in their accounts. I think it was on a 30 year basis.
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Speckledhen
Posted 15 Sep 2011
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Posts: 1914

ste

Ken, is the silver moss problem in low traffic areas, eg. back of a green where little golfers footprints occur.

I had this sort of issue on some greens back in the late 90's on 5-10 year old greens but with tight cushion moss and silver moss's.

The biggest factor in the long term health of USGA greens will depend on how good the construction AND the quality of the rootzone was, as well as the level of aeration /maintenance.
They are high(ish) maintenance assetts.

ste
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turfjack
Posted 16 Sep 2011
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Posts: 211

Alan FitzGerald, LedgeRock Golf Club

Ken
it's probably not available in the UK but Carfentrazone works great on Moss. http://www.fmcprosolutions.com/LawnCare/Products/Herbicides/QuickSilverTOHerbicide.aspx

To the OP
They are depreciated usually over 30 years. I believe the first ones were built in the early 60s. Their life expectancy as Steve63 said really does depend on how good the construction AND the quality of the rootzone was, as well as the level of aeration /maintenance.

The biggest issue that limits water infiltration (and therefore performance) is the mat/thatch layer that build up over time with maintenance. The more organic in there, the more infiltration is restricted, and as that layer grows over the years with topdressing it compounds the issue. I've seen courses remove the organic build up to the original mix and reseed or sod and the greens performed perfectly again.

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Ken Barber
Posted 16 Sep 2011
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The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.

Hi Alan,
Hopefully, when you carry out those compost tea trials you have been threatening to do all summer, you will see that most of that organic material will become minerlised.

Getting the bugs to remove the thatch/organic matter is far cheaper than stripping down to clean rootzone and starting again!

Hope you are well and avoiding all that nasty weather over there?

KB
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turfjack
Posted 17 Sep 2011
cs 106
Posts: 211

Alan FitzGerald, LedgeRock Golf Club

Ken
got them rolling, missed a couple but so far so good.....

The weather has been a mix - no rain for nearly four weeks and then too much with 15" alone in the last 18 days..... Everyones happy fall arrived with a bang yesterday, a touch of frost last night and highs of 15-18C

Talk soon!

Alan
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Torch
Posted 17 Sep 2011
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Posts: 158

The answer is None more black.

A guy on the BIGGA website suggested using a bicarbonate of soda solution on moss. I have tried this and it works dramatically well!
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Speckledhen
Posted 17 Sep 2011
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Posts: 1914

ste

How does the grass cope with this Torch, and what sort of solution do you use?

ste
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ian macmillan
Posted 17 Sep 2011
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Posts: 335

MOSS BOSS ; Article, Nov 09 (archives)
Worth a visit?
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turfjack
Posted 18 Sep 2011
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Posts: 211

Alan FitzGerald, LedgeRock Golf Club

there was a sodium bicarbonate product over here for moss (don't know if its still around), it worked well in small doses until the sodium built up and coupled with warm weather burned everything..... so be careful
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leestrutt
Posted 18 Sep 2011
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Posts: 41

Hi Ken,

My deputy under took some trials with basic shop bought bicarbonate soda trying applying as a pure product and as a solution. I don't have the results to hand but will get them tomorrow. If you send me a blank e-mail to l.strutt@gwest.co.uk I'll get the info and some pictures.

Best regards

Lee
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Ken Barber
Posted 24 Sep 2011
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Posts: 1753

The true meaning of life is to plant trees, under who’s shade you do not expect to sit.

I read about bicarb some months ago and deduced it was a risking product in terms of burn potential?

KB
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