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Message Board - Natural Turf: Low rates of pay, following on from Vics Post

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Boo Boo
Posted 18 Sep 2011 Last edited: 18 Sep 2011
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With reference to the early posts on salaries concerning groundsmans low rates of pay.
Is it not time that our so called leading bodies ,IOG, Pitchcare, Ground search and any other consultants making a few quid at our expense, actually vetted these adds, and if they dont come up to at least the IOG minimum pay scales, which we know are still on the low side, but in taking the lead and refusing to print such adverts it would wake these venues up. They want the best, but they are not prepared to pay for it.
If the main bodies do not take the lead, what chance has the humble groundsman got. All this may well have said before, but as a head grounds man that has worked hard to get to the top, and has always fought hard to get increases in salaries for my staff where ever I have been, it grieves me to see such adds for a head groundsman at the massive £13000 a year.
Wake up, Salty, Webby, and the Helen Whiting of this world, help us to help you
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GRG
Posted 18 Sep 2011
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I SECOND EVERYTHING SAID ABOVE.
I have yet to reach the top, done well but not the top. John, Dave etc, adverts like the one mentioned do our industry no good at all, lets leave these to the IOG's of this world.
Pitchcare wants to lead the way, i back you all the way. You have the largest membership by far, please do not insult us, your members, by taking this schools money advertising quality job for such a paltry sum. You want to be proffesional, then only advertise the proffesional jobs with salaries to match please.
Why do organisations bother to advertise in national mags with such low salaries, how can anyone afford to move for that? bound to be a local get the job. Best wishes to who ever is successful.
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Barry Big Shot
Posted 18 Sep 2011
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Once a muppet.....................

Two very well respected gentlemen making valid points, yet who gives a stuff?
Pitchcare make £100 from the advert, that is all they care about.
I have been the first to come on this board several times and congratulate the staff on an excellent magazine and I will be the first to criticize as well.
Andy Dixon destroyed by his article. In the same edition, an article on myself which went to print containing loads of mistakes, which had been pointed out in a proof reading, yet never changed. These mistakes caused problems and distrust, when I phoned about them I was told "well it's too late now", thanks!!
Expect no support, just words from the glossy mags as they care not about the industry just their pockets.
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Mike
Posted 18 Sep 2011 Last edited: 18 Sep 2011
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I'll add to this one...

PC - you have made your feelings perfectly clear on how Saltex was run - that is your right... but, one comment made in respect of Saltex was that "to the point that it holds less of an attraction to groundsmen" and ", but it is no longer a show for groundsmen, put on, incidentally, by the Institute of GROUNDSMANSHIP", yet here we have an advert for a, "Experienced Groundsman with handyman/gardening skills" , where there are lines such as "A full, clean driving licence and confident ability to drive minibuses;" and "A simple knowledge of livestock (eg. Pet Area and Chickens)" - I would ask if by agreeing to have that advert on a site which "serves the turfcare industry" and you champion the cause of the professional groundsman, you are equally as guilty as the iog for having boats at their show? And let us not forget the £13k per year...

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Dave
Posted 18 Sep 2011
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Guys,

I've been reading through these posts and I agree that the salary on this job is shockingly poor. I don't vet jobs going on but will ask the question tomorrow.
With regards some of your comments,
PC doesn't make money out of members, we don't charge you for this service? We have championed on behalf of this Industry many times though.
We don't live in a perfect world and while the magazine is excellent, it will undoubtedly cause offense to some people sometimes. Andy Dixon was extremely hard done by, but his article was agreed by him and the University before print, similar goes for every other article we publish with the author's consent.

Mike, my personal feelings about Windsor aside, here's some facts about the show. The walk up traffic has halved in the last 6 years, numbers were declining before the recesion and have continued since. Regardless of companies bigging up trade, the majority don't have a good show. In the last 7 days I have received e-mails from around 40 companies saying that they either won't be returning again or will be selective in the future assuming it's still there. Pat on the back for the volunteers mate, but you should be more appreciative of all those companies that waste a lot of money attending for not much return.
Anyway, if the IOG and BIGGA woke up and saw the potential of one large show with proper International appeal then everyone would be happy.
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Mike
Posted 18 Sep 2011
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Thank you for your thoughts, Dave.

I can only call what I see - you have emails from 40 companies - I don't, so can't comment on what I am unaware of. All I have to go on is what I see on this site, which is the recently posted articles, and conversations with a few close industry contacts - all of which paints quite a positive picture - if there is more information out there, that should also be made public knowledge to allow people to draw a conclusion from a complete set of facts, not tidbits. Correct on the volunteers front - these are good people doing this industry a great service. For info, I appreciate everyone in this industry (except the dishonest few, who I have little time for) - we may have a show coming up in our area soon - it's costing a small fortune, and with such a small catchment area, you can bet that money won't even come into it in terms of business conducted - for those that are supporting it, I am hugely grateful.
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Boo Boo
Posted 18 Sep 2011
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Wow wow wow
how do we go from a thread that is all about poor pay for the amount of hours we all put in because we all show so much dedication to get a means to an end, and suddenly it changes to Saltex.All i can say about that is ,what ever these companies are charged by the IOG to exibit, we the end customer have to stand that cost, so do not gloss any show up,but if you want any form of show be prepared to pay extra for that new piece of equipment.
Now back to low wages, we will have a slot here where by all employers will say in this economic times there is no room for manuveur, cobblers, employ the best and in every sport and watch how the better surfacers attract better players, from grass roots right to the top of the profession.
We still have a long way to go in educating the old school that it is only grass, mow it and roll it and that is all that is necessary to have it look good,who saw Rooney slip taking that peno today, who is going to cop for that, I bet it wont be Rooney told he had the wrong length studs in.
We create the stage for these high earners to preform on.We get it wrong and we are condemed by the press, and as most of us know at any level the players them selves are our biggest critics, and bless em not one of them would know the difference between Cation exchange and the local euro exchange.One could be as contravershal on this site as one wanted to be as it is only ever read by us grass cutters, what is needed is for the national press to pick up on our plight, then things might move on at pace, Rooneys slip could be that catalist, old trafford groundsman sacked for keeping the sprinklers on for 5 seconds to long. Let us bombored the Times with our saddo situations, it will be the only way to bring us to the fore, unless Dave does it on our behalf.
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Mike
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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My bad, Boo Boo - apologies for hijacking this.
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Chris Thornton
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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He not busy being born is busy dying!!

When one takes a dead ball kick the standing foot should be next to the ball. Rooney's wasn't and the groundsman will not be blamed. Ferguson will see that the blame goes to the player!!
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Barry Big Shot
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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Once a muppet.....................

Boo Boo, I guess you will be in Birmingham in November, where I hope we can extend your thoughts a little more as I have similar plans for a press day.
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vid
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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To be fair to Dave his interests have to compliment the commercial ends of a media outlet so he is limited in the scope that he can use. However I dont think a bit more exposure of this topic than at present would do anything except attract new customers and advertisers, at worst I would think the effect would be neutral, considering industry itself - for the most part - just plays lip service to this. I must admit to being very disappointed with the industry response to this and I have a feeling that PitchCare have little idea how much anger about this is simmering under the surface of a lot of followers who have no voice at all except limited outlets such as this message board.
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