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Chris Thornton
Posted 19 Sep 2011 Last edited: 19 Sep 2011
twinsJan.2012 008
Posts: 693

He not busy being born is busy dying!!

Over 3 years ago I was asked to take over as groundsman at my local Northern Premier League cricket club. It was late July and my predecessor had walked out in a huff and as the secretary knew I had been a groundsman and that I was, hopefully, available would I come for the rest of the season.

I did and was,frankly, shocked at the state of the whole ground. Boundary boards were, in the main, rotten and had nails sticking out of them. Weeds and all kinds of litter including broken bottles infested the perimeter.The machinery and the shed reflected this neglect!

So, with the support of the treasurer, I set to and tried to improve things as best I could and I think I have done this. It was not a question of just taking over from a competent, dedicated person but starting from scratch and trying to upgrade everything so that by the time I retired the incoming groundsman's task would be fairly straight forward and he could concentrate on the job of preparing the square, outfield and playing surfaces to a high standard.

After two full seasons I told them that I would be finishing and to find someone else (I gave them 12 months notice B T W ). This they failed to do and once again the Sec' asked me to carry on. He said that the Committee had approved a person to help out and that I only needed to work Mon to Frid and , if possible, to get everything ready by Friday evening. Needless to say I have been in every weekend bar one Saturday (2s)

As renovation time approached it became clear that the club was/is suffering from a lack of bar turnover and i asked about the money for Autumn materials and was told that it was budgeted for.

In early September the club has two fixtures and as we in this part of the Country know, we were inundated and both fixtures were abandoned. On the first Monday in September the Committee met and decided to dispense with my services (" By the end of September") and needless to say I am still in a state of shock, not because I am finishing because I am finishing anyway but by the crass ignorance of a committee who have no idea of how to treat an employee and of what is required to be done on the square during late September and October and the throughout the Winter. "We'll give you some help if you want" (Oh aye)

The best I can do is to repair the wicket ends,spike the square and service the machinery. Any thought of putting on 4 tonne of Kaloam together with the rest of the renovation work has evaporated from my mind and as soon as is possible I am off.

I was told that the Committee are doing the grounds next season and "Would I come down and show 'em what to do?"

You can guess my reply. I will hand over to a competent groundsman, yes of course but my involvement with the club will be terminated A S A P.

I feel very slighted and insulted that they did not call me up and discuss how I would be finishing and what would be required on the grounds this Autumn and Winter. "Not a lot" I could have assured them as I have always been paid by the hour but NO, that would have been the sensible thing to do but common sense is not something the collective Committee brain possesses. Ah well at 65 should I worry???

Chris
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Vic
Posted 19 Sep 2011 Last edited: 19 Sep 2011
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Waterloo Sunset.

A sorry tale,Chris, walk away now mate with a clear conscience and enjoy your retirement free from this sort of abuse.
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Chris Thornton
Posted 19 Sep 2011
twinsJan.2012 008
Posts: 693

He not busy being born is busy dying!!

Shouldn't you be at work Vic ???? LOL

Just going to have me "Bran Flakes" then I am off. Yippeeee it's not raining.
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barry glynn
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Sorry to hear that Chris. Sometimes people have short memories mate.
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tonybolton
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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Enjoy your retirement Chris, but I bet you're back doing something somewhere very soon.
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Zippy
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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Chris,

A very sad story. What makes it more sad is that these kind of things are not one offs and no doubt shenanigans like this still go on up and down the country and even at a higher level than yours.

Most players and ex players know very little about maintaining grounds, yet these are the people found on most committees. But it is not hard to understand why they know so little, because all they have ever done really is turn up every Saturday 40 minutes before the start and get changed whilst the groundsman has been there since seven in the morning!

I really do believe sometimes that players think the ground is prepared in an hour or something daft on a Saturday morning. it might also explain why your committee think they can do it themselves (which IMHO never works).

The best grounds in our league have dedicated groundsman that are there every day from April to September and if you are one of the lucky clubs in that position, then you bend over backwards to keep them. Furthermore those clubs that actually do proper end of season renovation work rather than just chucking some bird seed on bare ends are the grounds that players enjoy playing at every season.

You former committee will reep what they sow and it is not your problem - put your feet up and enjoy.
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Pat Skires
Posted 19 Sep 2011 Last edited: 19 Sep 2011
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Gutted for you buddy. It's the ignorance and disrespect that gets to you.

These people on these committees are unreal. So stuck up their own ar5es.

We've all been through this at some point. I had one ground where some local **** sat in the bar telling everyone what I was doing wrong and how he would do it better. They asked me to give him my keys at the end of the year. I was called to inspect that ground the next year because the **** had killed half the square with a spillage of fertiliser.

You put your soul in and they treat us like dirt. In fact I treat dirt better than these ****s treat us.

Walk away fella with your head held high.

I too think you will be cutting cricket pitches somewhere next season.

You can always come and do my end of season for me if you like? I'll make the tea.
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mackay
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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Which Club is this Chris - I'm itching to know.
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Andy Matthews
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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And soesn't this all come back to Vics post about poor pay etc. Chris says that its a premier league club, is there a budget for the groundsman as usual it doesnt sound like it, be intereting to know Chris if you have an overseas player, it would look that as though it will be the cheapest option they can find.
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mackay
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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Fairly typical of many committees I'm afraid. There are some very well run clubs but many are run by bullies.

Chris, I've just worked out wich club it is. Sorry mate - their loss entirely. I've seen some poor behaviour by committees from a grounds point of view and it always comes back to bite them. Not much consolation I know.

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vid
Posted 19 Sep 2011 Last edited: 19 Sep 2011
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Any club that cuts its groundstaff first as a budget saving are about to find out the huge mistake they have made. Chris I feel so sorry for you especially in the light of the other threads running currently. Whoever they are they do not deserve one more day of your time, if it was me all equipment and the pitch would be left in a state that you would expect to come to tomorrow and I would not arrive at work - the cheek of expecting you to do the renovations as they obviously expect you to - let alone 'help' with next season, they absolutely have to be joking.

These threads at the moment are really stressing me out - they make me so angry to read, along with the Tennis chairman where I work telling me what I can and cant tell him about tennis courts on the strength that he is a long term and experienced player/coach. he is not very happy with my response and is reporting it to the grounds commitee. So Chris I sympathise so- so much, best of luck with your retirement.

Mark
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Chris Thornton
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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He not busy being born is busy dying!!

I have never made a secret of where I worked but on this post I thought it diplomatic to leave it off.

The pro , I am told, has refused next years reduced terms

. I am sympathetic towards the club's plight as when they had brass the treasurer was supportive. But this season has been different and I have soldiered on since July without me Triorotorake as the engine blew up and we didn't have £350 for a new one.

It's just the stupidity and their unwillingness to ask before making decisions, which gripes with me. If they had said something i would have accommodated them. The outfield I cut last Tuesday needs cutting again but the weekends deluge has flooded it so the John Deere won't be going on it again this year. In a couple of weeks so will the square need cutting but there will be nobody to do it. The winter spiking I would have done for nowt as it's not often one can get onto it because of the poo weather we get and usually there are just 3 to 4 times from Nov to March it can be done.

Eddy says this wet weather is due to change and I hope so as I want to be done by Thursday.

Chris
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Andy Matthews
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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Chris your last post says it all, the pro is off 'cos the money isn't there and I wonder just how much did they pay you, for spending hours of your precious time on the ground in wind rain and God knows what else, not as much as the pro's I would guess.

Tell 'em to stuff it, as Vid says leave everything clean and tidy and b***er off and enjoy yourself, you even gave them 12 months notice, while ever you are daft enough to do it, they will let you.
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Mike
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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Posts: 3130

Chris - very disappointing sequence of events, and attitude from the committee - as stated several times above, this is not an uncommon scenario.

Anyway, I wish you well in your retirement.
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Speckledhen
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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ste

Hi Chris,

I know that you have been after retirement for a while but it is dispiriting to hear how you have got it.

After last years problems with loam I thinkl you are better off on the bike or fishing.

I have also left the cricket ground where I was doing a bit, but in better circumstances.

Judging by the shortage of groundsmen, let alone skilled/qualified groundsmen, I do worry about the future of cricket a little, there is only so far that you can go with volunteers and sticking plasters.

ste
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James Horrocks
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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Posts: 138

Sad to hear the way you`ve been treated Chris. After paying you a visit last year it was very clear to see how much pride, time and effort you put into the place. Very short sighted of "them upstairs" so sounds as if your best off out of there ASAP!!!
Now you`ll have plenty of free time you can pop up the road to Shap and see how I`m getting on!!!!

All the best mate.
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eddyinfreehold
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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James, I was supposed to have the Sisis after you tomorrow. Wayne Chorley at Netherfield said you got your renos in today. Great stuff. You're a magician. Quality. Chris. I've cancelled the machine for this week and will try and find a day next week unless we have a sudden window. I'm now digging more sumps between tracks though we remain sodden. The 6' railway bar is coming up trumps.
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James Horrocks
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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I know, Wayne couldn`t believe it when i pulled into his yard with the trailer........ his square was sodden and he said it had chucked it down all day in Kendal. Bone dry in Shap, but as soon as you started the climb up Shap fell the roads turned wet...... i guess i just got very lucky!!!
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eddyinfreehold
Posted 19 Sep 2011
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No my boy, you're in the Lakeland rain shadow. That's why they always grew wheat near Penrith even before the prices rose. You're not warm by any means but you are dry. Not a ball bowled between Kendal and Chorley last Saturday. You lucky lucky man! :-)
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Chris Thornton
Posted 20 Sep 2011 Last edited: 20 Sep 2011
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Posts: 693

He not busy being born is busy dying!!

Teachers in Lancaster used to tell of the "Yorkshire rain shadow" in that the rain bearing clouds coming across the Atlantic and then the Irish sea, would have to rise to clear the Pennines and in doing so would drop their loads on this side. Especially on the lanes Powder House and Woodhill !!

There was nowt left to drop on Yorkshire and the same applies to Shap I suppose.

Will have a look up Shap next Spring James as all my mother's side come from those parts, Shap, Bampton, Knipe, Penrith, Maulds Meaburn and Lowther Village.

Six tracks and a dozen games a season James = Heaven!

Counted up today and I got 82 games prepared for this season , albeit some were juniors, and another square and track to do on a nearby public playing field.

BTW when next either of you speak to Wayne at Netherfield ask him about his son's wages at that club. Makes Vic Demain's ref to the Wages on the "Jobs" post sound like a King's Ransom

Chris

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Magnum
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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Tony

It's about time the Leagues did something about the amount of money siphoned off to players. It is an amateur sport played on surfaces prepared by professionals. But who gets the financial priority?

Chris's story is probably not uncommon regarding the attitude in clubs. The playing status of the Club is seen to be the be all that matters.

Not only is the culture cazy but it means the big clubs often stay top because of their financial muscle. It should be a level playing field for all clubs.

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barry glynn
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

It's not only the pros who get paid down here. You're dead right about clubs with money staying at the top. It's a nonsense really, at the end of the day all you get is a cheap tin pot.
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vid
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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You look at any sport, cricket probably the worst, and you will see a management structure where the Head Groundsman comes bottom and yet he has to have more skills, training , experience and management ability than probably any of them. It just isnt right but without a voice we will always be put down because we are passionate enough about the job to do it even when undervalued. The physio will turn up in a porsche or even in one case a top of the range bentley sports and the Head groundsman in a battered Astra estate. Physio puts in a 5 hour day but will have to travel with the team whereever they are playing - hardly hardship. The head groundsman has to travel 70 miles a day and works from dawn til dusk often 7 days a week on a salary because he is passionately dedicated to his work and is at the very pinnacle of his profession. In cricket I wonder how many Head Groundsmen are paid more than other managers at the club, and if they are at what level?

Having a passion for what we do, or even enjoying what we do doesnt give anybody an excuse to under value us as so many stories on this site have regularly shown. It is without question an injustice and an abuse. Volunteering is one thing but even this is taken for granted rather than being shown as a massive donation to the clubs funds that it actually is. I really think its about time this was brought to an end. Can I do it myself - no, at least I doubt it and certainly not without help and finance - should it be done....of course but wheres the support. Read these recent threads and see how many well respected posters are happy to make excuses for this abuse. There is none its an excuse to use that money elsewhere, if you work for them and can afford not to take a living wage that is fair enough. But to steal another mans wage in order to improve your profile and potential should be criminal.
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barry glynn
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

I can only talk about club cricket in Surrey. The premier division I dont think has a single team that isn't paying players. We are in div one and that's mostly the same.
We don't pay cos the money isn't there and anyway a decision was made not to go down that route even if we were to come into some.Problem is, if we were to get promoted into the prem, it would be a struggle to compete.
The rich clubs stay at the top and also get offered the best available players from the county when not required by the county.
It's an elitist set up.
It used to be illegal to pay players but the league gave up trying to police it which is understandable.
One club finds work for players which is effectively the same because they are very well connected and have quite a few rich patrons.
There have also been clubs that buy in players at the end if a season to help them fight relegation . That could be stopped but hasn't been so far.
Also clubs have had sugar daddies come on board and bought their way up the leagues but it's built on sand normally and when the money gies, the players go because they are just mecernaries.
Some clubs have spent thousands on players whilst their grounds are poor and that personally i find a wind up.
Clubs often struggle to find groundsmen because they spend their money on players.
Clubs struggling by with poor equipment but still having overseas players.
Unlikely to change though. Even in recessionary times it would seem.

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tonybolton
Posted 20 Sep 2011 Last edited: 20 Sep 2011
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But surely Barry that is what professional team sport is about, be it right or wrong, the ability to pay the highest wages and attract the best players is the key to success. As long as rules are not broken and other matters such as equipment and groundcare, as you mention, are not neglected, then in most cases the club with the financial ability to attract the best players be they mercenary or not will inevitably come out on top. It may be better if cricket had a more open policy towards payment, such as in Rugby League where a salary cap is stringently enforced. This tends to make most teams competitive as long as they have the finance available. I'm afraid the simple truth is players nowadays expect to get paid in accordance with their ability and if a club is unable to finance such payments they will not attract the best players and will be relegated and at worst cease to exist. It's no good whinging on about the rich teams. If you're not a 'rich team' and do not have the inclination or ability to become one, then you are playing a dangerous game and will inevitably suffer the consequences.
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barry glynn
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

It's not professional is it?
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vid
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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Exactly Barry and even though I dont disagree with Tony, the feeling from his post and others is that nothing will ever change so we'll just have to get on with it. This is wrong, it is still a predominantly amateur game but will rapidly go the 'professional' way where players have no loyalty and no true understanding of the word 'team' as at the drop of the hat and a few more beads they will drop them like a hot potato and move on. Its made England weak at football and it is creeping into many other areas as well where money is the god not the game.
worst of all this attitude takes money away from those who actually need it to live - they are the true professionals, sportsmen these days are mere tradable commodities, driven by greed and pimped by agents. We should all be so proud that our money so readily goes to support this.
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barry glynn
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

We are talking about club cricket aren't we? If so, paying players just so you can win a crappy trophy worth about 50 quid is rather pathetic in my book
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mackay
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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Paying a good pro is a great boost to the game: Blackpool CC had Richie Richardson as pro when he was also captain of the West Indies. During my time in club cricket clubs have had Jaques Kallis, Stewart Mcgill, Eldine Baptiste, Dave Calaghan, Jimmy Adams etc etc - if you're an amateur cricketer playing against or with one of these guys its amazing and they bring an awful lot to the amateur game.
Paying a club player, however, is the beginning of the end. Sadly it's becoming more accepted (not more common, just more accepted) and it does take away money for things like the upkeep of the playing surfaces.
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tonybolton
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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'It's made England weak at football', how many times have I heard that the influx of foreign players into the very lucrative premiership is ruining the National side. Why? If English players of a comparable ability were out there and available they would be playing in the Premiership, so where are they? or is it that there are just not the calibre of players eligible to play for England.? How many foreign players were playing in the Premiership when we as a Nation failed to win and in some cases qualify for World and European cups in the late 60's, 70's and 80's, very few, many then first division clubs had none, apart from Irish, Welsh and Scottish players. So the National side was as bad then, if not worse than the current side and that's before the influx of foreign players. It's the calibre of eligible players that is the problem, possibly managerial and tactical skills come into it, but if your best is not good enough then it's just not good enough. We have some of the best managers and facilities in the World in England, but at the moment and for many years past we have been unable to turn out a team with world class ability.
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vid
Posted 20 Sep 2011 Last edited: 20 Sep 2011
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nothing to do with foreign players - it wasnt mentioned. I was decrying the lack of pride, the lack of team and the total dominance of 'self'. I have no doubt whatsoever that we have no chance at all with the current players and current attitudes. Skill is only a basic requirement, without it a player cannot reach the top - its whats up top that makes the player the best and its attitude that makes winning teams

A little more selflessness would go along way and sticking with teams because you are passionate about them not because they pay more would be a flaming good place to start
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tonybolton
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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Vid your words 'only a basic requirement' somewhat demean the skill levels required and essential to play at International level, only and basic just do not come into it. Paramount and essential would be more approprriate add to that 'winning attitude' and pride then we might be getting a bit closer.
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vid
Posted 20 Sep 2011 Last edited: 20 Sep 2011
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categorically disagree Tony - but thats life - doesnt mean I'm right. I see football players with amazing skills who dont even make the best local teams because they dont get the game. I see cricketers who are amazing in the nets but cant hit a tennis ball when under pressure. I used to umpire a hockey team who fielded an international who was 'adequate' in skill but his fitness perception and pereverance made him completely invaluable as a goal scorer. So personally I think 'paramount' is where the head is, and it goes without saying that the band of plonkers who went to SA were there for the ride and the attention but definitely not there for team and country - hell one of our 'best' couldnt even bring himself to sing the national anthem - I dont care what his politics are but the start of a world cup game was not the place to show them - where the hell was his head that day - certainly not with the rest of the team or the country for that matter. At that moment the most important thing for him was not to join in - very telling and he did it for every game. You watch the passionate teams they all belt it out

But what the hell just my opinion - one of many possible
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James Horrocks
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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So, Shap`s in the "Lakeland rain shadow" now that would explain how we were the only place to play cricket in the whole of the Eden Valley League a few weekends back.... shame about all the away rain offs!!!

You`re right Chris, 6 tracks and a dozen games is pretty good, compared to most of you guys, but being an after work volunteer it`s more than enough for me. 82`s just crazy!!!

As for Waynes boy..... he`s gone, driving an excavator now on some site. Had enough apparently!!!!!
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Pat Skires
Posted 20 Sep 2011 Last edited: 20 Sep 2011
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1sts, 2nds, 1st team cup, 2nd team cup, under 17s league, under 17s cup, under 15s, under 13s midweek, under 13s Sundays, under 11s, under 9s,Twenty20, Midweek 16 over league, Ladies games, pubs and clubs games.

At my last club you could add County cup, 3rd team and County junior representative games.

82 seems about normal.

How many league clubs pay a proper wage to a pro groundsman compared to those using volunteers?

I've seen another element popping into the equation.

Coaches. How much is it costing to CRB check and train all these guys? Clubs and individuals are then paying these guys. Are we really seeing an improvement in the quality of 'development' in the players?

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martin deans
Posted 20 Sep 2011
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Had a similar experience to chris's, been working at club for 19 years developed it into a very well respected recerational club, new chairman comes in early this year no interest in cricket just developing the bar take and sponsering the football team and threatning to put a football pitch across the square. For several months he deducted money from my monthly invoice claming I had done to much preperation work that he was not prepared to pay for and the fact that my hours did not match what the stewardess told him I worked, the fact she starts in the afternoon and i worked mornings half the month. So after 19 years and another deduction on my invoice for august I took all my equipment which I had bought to do the job and then told him I am off. It was just before the start of the football season I had not marked the pitch out, after realising this wouldn't be done he asked if I had left a line marker so they could do it, when I said no he started to get nasty even accusing me of not putting the 8 bags of fertiliser on the pitch that I have clamied for, simple answer to that was have a look in a weeks time mate, another example of lets do it on the cheap I know best, so far I am told there has been to renovation work started and the football pitch aint square, sad thing is I have no regreats about leaving and now able to concentrate fully on my ecb prem club.
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Minormorris64
Posted 21 Sep 2011
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What goes around, comes around

Pat,
I could not agree more, the 'gravy train' that is the coaching sector is starting to grate with me, a couple of our lads 'had' to do a refresher 1st aid course.......yep you guessed it was the exact same course they did previously..kerrrrrrrrching there goes another £50.
The coaching setup at our Club has definitely helped with the numbers involved (children that is), but the ££££££££££'s that have left our cheque book (I am Treasurer as well as groundo) in the last few years in the direction of the Cricket Board is , especially when I think what machinery and equipment I could have purchased with same ££££££'s.
Instead the last kit I received has been a Ransomes 18 Triple (secondhand purchase £1500) in 2008, and before that the Atco I cut the tracks with in 2003

Stephen
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barry glynn
Posted 21 Sep 2011
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Yes Stephen
Yet another example of how Clubmark costs you money. I heard lots of noises from the county and indirectly the ECB how obtaining Clubmark would open up revenue streams. Apart from Sport England, that claim seems to be bull. And now Sport England have stopped that funding anyway.
It's cost the club here hundreds inthe last couple of years in coaching course fees and have not received a penny back.
I know every club in the country cannot be funded but there is a lot of bull pushed around when clubs gave to troll through the admin drudge of Clubmark and it's an on going thing too.
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Minormorris64
Posted 21 Sep 2011
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What goes around, comes around

I am being a selfish groundo though, we have just had a 2 bay net system put in this season, but we used our own contractors rather than the 'recommended' ones through the ECB, the lads doing the work did a fantastic job (perfect sensible bounce and carry) and the nets are already being well used, they cost us £7500, received some grants from the local grassroots scheme and our local community council.
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seanmichaels
Posted 21 Sep 2011
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I think an OP can be great for a club. We have been incredibly lucky. Our OP in 2002 & 2003 is now a paying member of the club and has introduced 3 or 4 new paying members. Our OP in 2009 cost nothing and broke the league record for rumns scored as well as being an absolute scream to have around. This year we had a guy who got a friday night junior coaching fee and a small bonus if the team won on Saturday. Max £50 and you could guarantee £40 of that would end up behind the bar - he was a great bloke to have around and there wasn't a dry eye around the place when he left. Clubs need to spend more time looking for players rather than going for a £3k, £5k or £10k player off a list.
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Pat Skires
Posted 21 Sep 2011 Last edited: 21 Sep 2011
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My old club has more coaches than grass plants on the square ( and it's an healthy square ).

After 2 years of this new coaching regime the players now all know how to run around a bunch of pink cones but came 3rd from bottom this year.

It's total bull sh!t. FFS if you are a young player then go talk to the old fella in the club who has been scoring runs and taking wickets for 20 years. LISTEN to what he has to say. You'll learn more from him in 20 minutes than you will all season from these salesmen in purple tracksuits with flip charts and pink cones.

Can you remember in the old cowboy films how there was always some bloke who came into town and set up stall selling 'The elixir of life' or 'magic hair restorer'. Days later the town's folk would realise it was all a con ...

... AKA the ECB coaching system.
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jlawrence
Posted 21 Sep 2011
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Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.

I must of missed all these old fella who know how to explain to youngsters how they score runs and take wickets and how to apply that to a junior game.

All the coaches in our club are current or ex players.

Why should going on a coaching course be any different to going on a groundsman's course. Yes, you could learn a heck of a lot about grounds by talking to a groundsman - oh, like we've got all day to sit down and explain how/why we do things.

20 minutes listening to a groundsman won't make you a groundsman, likewise 20 minutes listening to the old fella won't turn you into a 1st team batsman.
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Pat Skires
Posted 21 Sep 2011 Last edited: 21 Sep 2011
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Tainted I'm afraid jl plus a touch of dinosaur syndrome.

As a bowler it is quite comical watching some of these guys that have never bowled in their lives telling lads how to bowl ... whilst at the same time jumping all over you when you actually try and give the lads some proper advice.

Our overseas pro couldn't stop laughing.

About 30 years ago an ex Northants guy spoke to me for 5 minutes about bowling. Made me a good bowler. God knows what would have happened if I'd have had the full 20 minutes.

I didn't say that you would become a 1st team player in 20 mins. I said you would learn more in 20 mins than you would all season from a coach that knows zip about the skill he is trying to teach you.

Catching rabbits and coffin lids ... it's a lovely story.

It is wrong of me to paint them all with the same brush. I'm sure there are decent guys who work hard for the young uns. I just bumped into the guys selling hair restorer.



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tonybolton
Posted 21 Sep 2011
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Well you've summed it up in a nutshell Pat, it's just another tick in a box and then lo and behold you're a coach, that is until your son or daughter leaves the club and finds alternative sport or relocates for education, 99% nepotism
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barry glynn
Posted 22 Sep 2011
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

I suspect that most clubs that have significant numbers of coaches are made up of colts parents who the majority of are keen but not cricketers.
Obviously the best cricketers in our club play in the first team but on the whole do not coach. If you are young, leaving home 9 am tonplay all day on Saturdays, playing the odd Sunday and attending nets twice a week, it doesn't leave much time fir anything else.
Maybe that's just our club, don't know.
I've got the experience but spend enough time down there in my job and I don't really like kids much
But some more experienced cricketers would be welcome as coaches.
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Pat Skires
Posted 22 Sep 2011 Last edited: 22 Sep 2011
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They are good points Barry and I'm sure accurate for most clubs.

I have every respect for the blokes who give up their time to try and help young uns and encourage them to start playing, or keep playing cricket, irrespective of these people's history/ability, as long as they keep their feet on the ground.

It's the empire builders that destroy me who are more concerned about their own ego and they don't mind treading over decent folk whilst they work their way up the system.

Oh look at me ... I'm head coach and I get to tell all the coaches under me what to do. I can talk cr@p to all the kid's parents because they won't have a clue what I'm talking about. I have a purple tracksuit and a flip chart. I'm dead important. I'll even strut over to the grounders and tell him that he needs to cover the junior pitch for tomorrow night's expecting mother's XI ... even though the groundsman is more concerned in keeping the 1st team's pitch dry for Saturday ... but surely it's far more important that we win a junior gonk because that will look good on me. Never mind ... we'll get another groundsman in who is more compliant. Fook this guy ... he's only given half his life to the club.

Er ... excuse me ... are the cricketers you are 'coaching' getting any better because of your input?

We've even got clubs 'collecting' ( read poaching ) all the best young players in the area so that they win all the gonks.

Do you not get it? If you have each club that has a couple of quality players all playing against each other then those players will get better as they are having to compete against players of their own ability. When you gather them all together in one team then they aren't getting tested by just blowing away a load of clubs who have teams full of lads of much less ability ... whilst developing arrogance instead of mental and competitive toughness.

( All the therapy clearly hasn't worked ... I'm sorry guys ... I may have released some pent up anger in my last few posts )
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jlawrence
Posted 22 Sep 2011
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Of course there's no bounce, bend your back and put some bloody effort in.

LOL @Pat. I think we've all come across the empire builders in our time - and it's not just restricted to coaches.
Barry, it's not just your club. Those that play in the firsts simply (IMO) don't have enough time to even think about coaching. Training 2 nights a week, playing Saturday (and as you say often leaving at 9am), playing midweek cup matches - they've barely time to see their families as it is let alone do coaching.
At our last coaches meeting one of the parents said it would be nice if some of the 1st team showed an interest. I just laughed, and after explaining it for nearly 30 minutes he still didn't get it. Most of the junior section seem to think that the seniors only turn up on Saturdays to play (yes I know some do) and are never around the other nights of the week - how the heck they'd know when they only turn up once a week to watch young johnny is beyond me.
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barry glynn
Posted 22 Sep 2011
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Yes Jon
Some colts parents on our committee think the first team don't put enough into the club but they know jack sh1t about the game. One of my sons plays in the ones.
all day stuff, trains twice a week, captained the Sunday side so spent half the week on the phone getting a side out. The other son plays in the twos and trains twice aw
Week. Both in their early twenties and try and have a life of what's left of their life in the summer weeks. It's one reason I'm coming off the committee, can't stand the whinging from people who know eff all about the game.
I've done 40 years of committee stuff anyway.
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vid
Posted 23 Sep 2011
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That young Johnny must be good Jon - if hes that watchable you should start charging
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Pat Skires
Posted 23 Sep 2011 Last edited: 23 Sep 2011
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We had the same Barry

1st teamers also pestered to death all over winter to turn up for beer festivals, race nights, quiz nights, Halloween parties, Bonfire night, Christmas party, New year's Eve party.

Ok so some of that is good fun ... but the club constantly telling the 1st teamers they must turn up and spend more money behind the bar. Some of these families spend thousands at the club over a year ... and they have done it for year after year after year.

Then ... under 13's start a Sunday morning team. Under 13's mums turn up and make bacon butties and tea ... then start whining because " It's only the juniors parents that do anything or make any money for this club ".

I'm grateful for the bacon butty sweetheart but the club aint getting rich with you buying your kid one diet coke and a mars bar once a fortnight for 3 months a year.
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barry glynn
Posted 23 Sep 2011
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Also Pat, over half our first team live in London. Not a five minute drive or walk like the locals.
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tonybolton
Posted 23 Sep 2011
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Where's London?
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jontaylor
Posted 23 Sep 2011
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The ciderman rolls

Have I clicked in to a GOGGA audition?
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