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Cranfield
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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Hi Everybody , just trying find out what the average annual costs are for maintaining a typical 10/12 strip square, taking into account that the work is being done by volunteers.

In essence the cost of all the materials required to maintain the square and outfield .

based on the supply of loam , seed, fertilises, fungicides, hire of any machinery ( graden / aeration equipment ) ,servicing of machinery , petrol/ diesel .

Yes i do understand that the cost will be governed by how much loam / seed you are using , the average applied loam is usually between 5-10 bags a strip for renovations.

Also it would be interesting to know the costs of the match tees , balls and umpire costs, based on some figures i have seen from one club it comes to over £1200 based on 22 games




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eddyinfreehold
Posted 27 Feb 2012 Last edited: 27 Feb 2012
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More like £3,000 to £4,000 for us for up to 65 games on 12 decks. It wouldn't be much less for half the number of games.

If you allow for depreciation and replacement of even the most basic machinery required then the figure will jump alarmingly.

This figure doesn't include things like officials, teas, balls etc.
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barry glynn
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Funnily enough, I did an article for PC that was covering this from my example.
I don't know if they are using it in the next issue.
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Cranfield
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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Just for clarification the £1200 i mentioned was only for teas and umpires and balls, I am sure the overall cost for maintenance ( not including labour ) will be coming in between £2000-£3000 ?
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Mike
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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Loz - i'll forward something through to you via email. We have a meeting with our resident clubs tonight about this, so we have all of the info to hand, just can't post it publically.

Mike
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barry glynn
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

My figures were just for ground maintenance costs, including materials, hire, machinery servicing/ repairs, fuel.
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Pitchcare Peter
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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Barry, the mag, with your article included, should arrive on Wednesday - it's being posted out today.

Cheers
Peter
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barry glynn
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Okey doke.
Oh well be interested to see how my figures compare.
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jontaylor
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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The ciderman rolls

It completely depends on your club's mind-set!
Balls: Our league balls are £15 each. We use them for two games, some clubs use a new ball every game. Our sunday team uses "X-grade" balls from a major on-line retailer - they have minor blemishes but cost less than a tenner each, despite being better quality than the £15 Saturday balls.
Fert: I use ag grade fert at half the price of big brand amenity specials.
Outfield cutting: We have ours cut by the council and only use our own triple if needed.
Machinery servicing: I do most servicing myself and only use professional services on special occassions.
Teas: One of the wives does the teas. Our costs are for food and drink only, so we can lay on teas for £30 outlay per game. We know a local club that pays best part of £80 for a very similar tea. Below are the 2011 figures taken from our club accounts. These don't include items such as fungicide which we only buy every few years and I had some fert in stock at end of 2010.

Expenditure
League Fees £130.00
Club memberships £35.00
Indoor Nets £300.00
Training Epuipment £220.00
Umpires £713.00
Teas £761.00
Balls £128.70
Ground Rent £450.00
Fuel £131.83
Oil and Maintenance £358.45
Chem and Fert £58.82
Seed £220.00
Loam £506.40
Ground equipment £235.66

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seanmichaels
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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Blimey. Our ground rent is £2.7k

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eddyinfreehold
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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We're lucky enough to own ours.
Scorers get paid too in our leagues.
Barry will like this.............our league insists that all clubs charge for teas to the players directly in a buffet style. I've always found that most unusual but we never lose money on refreshments and match subs are lower I suppose.
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Cranfield
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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Posts: 245

Starting to get interesting , other than his / hers membership fee, what else does a player contribute to the club , which leads me on to what on average is a clubs player membership charge, And do they pay it , i know of many club players who try and get out of paying, and i suppose this then leads on to how much of the clubs revenue goes on paying players . solely dependent on club standard I know ?

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barry glynn
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

I don't know what goes on at other clubs down here exactly but I do know that if a club wants to stay at the very top, they won't unless they pay. Most of the clubs involved deny it but that's just bs.
When you think about it, Ecb premier clubs are playing at a level that can equate to say conference football at least and you wouldn't get any player playing in the conference for nothing would you?
Not saying it's right, just how it is.
My club isn't like that fortunately and I hope we never will be even if a sugar daddy came along. We are div one just below the Ecb prem div. But many sides in this div pay players one way or t other. Very sad I think, for what? A tin pot to massage someones ego?
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Minormorris64
Posted 27 Feb 2012 Last edited: 27 Feb 2012
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What goes around, comes around

Subscriptions £80 senior, £50 sundays £40 Youth £20 Junior

Match Fees £6 senior/ sunday £4 youth £2 Junior
(If someone takes full car to away game can claim fee back)

Indoor Nets Charge £5 for 2 hour session x 3 weeks (costs £180)

League Fees £25 per team

Balls (Subsidised - New Ball Each Innings)

1st XI - Division 2
22 x Reader Balls (£192.06)

2nd XI - Reserve Division 3
22 x ID Sports Balls (£154.88)

Ground Rent -Peppercorn (nil) 21 year lease

We don't pay players but there have been opposition in our Division who have.
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Cranfield
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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Minormorris, any chance you could state the costs for up keep of the square/ outfield in terms of materials ect
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Minormorris64
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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What goes around, comes around

Petrol/ Diesel/ Machinery Servicing & Maintenance/ Grass Seed/ Weedkiller = £1200

Didn't top dress this year, our soil profile is of a good quality, negligible thatch (as per Pitch Grading by ECB) and also financially things were a bit tight as we have just installed a 2 lane outdoor net practice system.

Never have used any fertiliser in the 26 years of doing the ground.
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paul kelsey
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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Eddy
Ive played in various leagues in Yorkshire and never known anybody give teas away unless it be a final or representing your league, reckon before you start each match you need to clear £130 just to break even.
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Minormorris64
Posted 27 Feb 2012 Last edited: 27 Feb 2012
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What goes around, comes around

This year in our League there is no collection of tea money from away teams, we did charge £40 for away teams.
The ladies who do our teas usually charge the Club £35 per match.
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seanmichaels
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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No one has mentioned league fines yet. Late umpire report, late facilities report, late updating play cricket etc.
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barry glynn
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

In the Surrey championship, you don't charge for teas fir the oppo. But we still collect the same fee when away as at home from our own players.
Sean, fines are not normal expense
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Mike
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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Ok, just home from a lengthy meeting discussing this. What I can post is that we are working on roughly 1k per strip, per year in terms of labour, material, fuel etc - this does not include any outfield work. balls or any other sundry items.

I'll email the rest through, Loz.

Mike
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littlebaddow
Posted 27 Feb 2012
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Posts: 94

Village club, 11 pitches (plus 2 junior pitches at edge of the square).
3 Saturday league teams, 1 Sunday league team and 1 Sunday friendly team.

Last year actuals:
£1,980 = annual ground maintenance (all materials, labour is all voluntary)
£1,680 = ground rent (to Parish Council, on basis that cricket club maintains the field)
£900 = additional pitch hire at another ground (for 3rd team "home" games)
Above is a normal year with no exceptionals so excludes one-offs such as unscheduled repairs or purchase of machinery.

Approx annual costs of balls/umpires (league games only)
Balls £850
Umpires (Premier league only) £540

Annual subs
£50 (£25 if unemployed or in full time education)
Match fees
£6 (£4 if unemployed or in full time education)

Reciprocal arrangement for teas in all league games, ie no charge to away team.

Friendlies, teas charged at cost, usually £40 (labour provided by wives/girlfriends).



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jontaylor
Posted 28 Feb 2012
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The ciderman rolls

You can already see, ground rent is a major variable. Anything from "free" to almost £3K

I hope the club we sub-let our ground to sees littlebaddow's post and they will see what a bargain they get our ground for. But I also hope our parish council don't see their ground rent!
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barry glynn
Posted 28 Feb 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

We seem to have wandered off the original theme of the post. That was asking about budgeting for ground maintenance not how much subs are, how much the balls cost, how much teas are etc.
I think as groundsman we need to concentrate on our bit, i.e the ground and the cost of producing and maintaining the surfaces.
We need to say" this is what we need to do because...", "this is what it costs".
Then the committee needs to work out what it needs to cover that.
But we must give a clear reason why certain things are vital.
Don't get me wrong, I am more aware of budgeting now than I was.
Also that to some degree problems occur that need money which we could not have forcasted but we should be able to be fairly accurate.
What committees don't need is sudden nasty shock.
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leon
Posted 28 Feb 2012
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Redbourn Cricket Club


Costings for ground 2012
Feed Programme
Month Product Cost Quantity Total
January/February Scotts Invigorator 4-0-8 21.00 per
25kg bag 6 126.00
March/April Scotts 6-5-10 29.50 per
25kg bag 6 147.00
May/June/July Mivena Granuform (Liquid feed)
15-0-22 31.75 per
20kg bag 1 31.75
August /September Scotts 6-5-10 24.50 per
25kg bag 6 147.00
September A T Bone to scarify both squares 650.00

Item Product Cost Quantity Total
Grass Seed Pro 36 cricket pitch seed 92.00 per
20kg bag (no vat) 7 644.00
Cricket pitch dressing Onga loam 3.98 per
bag 240 955.20

Chemicals
Item Product Cost Quantity Total
Control of weeds Holster XL 102.30 per 2ltrs 1 102.30
Control of worm casts Carbendazin Barclay ringer 119.00 per 5ltrs 1 119.00
Control of leather jackets Scotts Crossfire 45.26 per ltr 1 45.26
Control of moss Liquid iron 91.00 per 10ltrs 1 91.00

Maintenance
Parts / Sharpening (this price is very estimated & does not include major breakdown) Approx cost 2000.00

Machinery
Groundsman 460hd Spiker (quotes received) Approx cost 6000.00
Sisis rotorake 602 (scarifier) (quotes received) Approx cost 6000.00

TOTAL EX VAT £ 17058.51
(Prices may be subject to price increase
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barry glynn
Posted 28 Feb 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

So Leon
Costs without new equipment us about £5K then.
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Mike
Posted 28 Feb 2012
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Interesting and in depth, Leon, but some of those prices? £29.50 pr 25kg of 6-5-10? Are they list prices, or is that what you have actually paid, if you don't mind me asking?
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leon
Posted 29 Feb 2012
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Redbourn Cricket Club

thease are list prices and this is for bothe of my squares
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barry glynn
Posted 29 Feb 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Sorry I got that wrong didn't I Leon, about 7k including servicing( dies thst include servicing/ sharpening outfield mower/ gangs?
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Philmort
Posted 29 Feb 2012
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Proud to serve grassroots cricket

Small matter of fuel to be added?
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barry glynn
Posted 29 Feb 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Thats true Phil. I spend about £210 on a barrel of red diesel and about £300 on petrol now I think.
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barry glynn
Posted 1 Mar 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Btw, for those of you who have read my literary efforts in the latest PC magazine, you can add another grand onto the servicing budget! Three new cylinders required for the triple!
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Mike
Posted 1 Mar 2012
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£1k for 3 cylinder, Barry? Seems steep to me...
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Barry Pace
Posted 1 Mar 2012
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'Where the future is being made today'

wahey, look at Mr Bargain Buyer over there ROFL....
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Mike
Posted 1 Mar 2012
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Got to be frugal in these times, Barry! Just replaced all of our gang mower cylinders (5) for not much more than half that amount.
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Neil Dixon
Posted 1 Mar 2012 Last edited: 1 Mar 2012
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Thats Sunny london prices for you MIke, it rains so much where you are you never need to use your mowers!!!!!
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barry glynn
Posted 1 Mar 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Bit difficult to argue when your triples in bits and your outfield is growing at an inch a day and we don't have blacksmiths anymore down here Mike.
Plus a bedsit flat costs more than a castle up there in Manx land.
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barry glynn
Posted 1 Mar 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

Probably the grand was a bit over the top, think more like 600 quid actually.
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eddyinfreehold
Posted 1 Mar 2012
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Slightly off topic, still too damp to mow but we're getting there. Starting to green up now. On with other things.........

Was quoted 6k for some domestic railings and a gate today by our local blacksmith (several available locally Barry, prices all the same, ie Top Dollar. The mobile horseshoe man is even more ££ with his gas burning Toyota pickup forge). Costed it myself and the steel comes out at around £400. I've just bought £80 worth of argon and dusted the welder down, the steel is on the way. The galvanising will cost say £250 if I drive it to Rochdale and back . Who's taking the p155?
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barry glynn
Posted 1 Mar 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

I'm not too good at knocking up new cylinders up myself.
You think that's expensive Eddie , you want to try getting a price from a plumber in winter down here. I can't make out why they dont ditch their White vans and just drive around to jobs using their Bentleys
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eddyinfreehold
Posted 1 Mar 2012
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No , Barry, neither am I, it would take a whole shop of machinery to make a cylinder of course . I was just making a point about some cynical pricing. The serious 'artistic' joiners and the blacksmiths charge whatever they want round here. Everyone else scrats around or has to go jobbing on site with casings or whatever.

If you need a plumber, and a good one, here's a story............a very good small GasSafe firm round here who do all my stuff (and rarely work after 3.30pm by the way, like all specialists) were contracted last year to travel from North Lancs to London to sort out the flat a local had bought for his student daughter.The guy's normal radius is about 15 miles. Obviously not the usual scenario (very wealthy parents) but it was cheaper to import 2 vans, 3 men, materials and equipment 250 miles there for 2 long days plus board than it was to employ locally.

All the serious local guys round here have ditched white for silver now by the way. Silver is the new white, to differentiate Tradesmen from Deliverymen apparently. And the signwriting gets more elaborate too.
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barry glynn
Posted 1 Mar 2012
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What do I do? I just cut the grass.

The plumber story sums it up mate, I can believe it.
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