Grumpy old men
Just like the BBC show, I thought I would have my say as a middle aged grumpy old man.
Agronomists!! I can't stand people that claim to be an agronomist. To be a bona-fida agronomist you have to have a degree in agronomy!! Not a degree in plant pathology, not a degree in sports turf science, not a degree in land management, or an HND, HNC, NVQ, ND, NDT, etc etc etc.
To be able to call yourself an agronomist, you have to have a degree in agronomy, which is an agricultural qualification. Therefore, how many proper agronomists are there in the industry? very few I would suggest.
And as for people who call themselves consultants.......although not as bad as a pseudo agronomist.........consultant?.......baloney.
How can anyone have the gall to call themselves a "consultant" in the turfgrass world. Proper consultants in the real world are at the top of their industry with zillions of years experience, and high level qualifications, such as consultants in the health care sector.
Not some wet behind the ears with a few years industry experience and a handful of certificates from their local college.....or worse still, some dodgy bloke who's a member of some iffy hand-shaking free-mason old boy network (the worst kind)......(especially if they call themselves a consultant agronomist!!).
Old Boy Networks, I hate old boy networks, they're the very thing that is stopping this industry going forward into the 21st century.........but that's another rant for another day.
5 May 2005 by Hipper
Consultants
We're all consultants on here.
consultants
Anything positive to say about our industry Colin?
I have never seen so much anger in a page, have you thought about seeking help from a consultant?
6 May 2005 by pete
lol
or an agromonist
Consultant Agronomists-so called.
Colin.
I was always taught that "Agronomy" is the scientific management of land.Therefore a Turfgrass Agronomist specialises in Scientifically managing/understanding turfgrass environments.
A good Agronomist will always have a detailed practical understanding to explain not just "how" but also why.
As a full time agronomist, With 20 years experience and qualifications upto/including post graduate level degrees it is a tad unfair to tar everyone of us with the same brush.
Colin,Iwish you well.
6 May 2005 by Poa7
Agro - nomist
Colin,
As long as they do a good job does it matter what a consultant decides to call him or her self?
Does a consultant really need zillions of years experience or could a full and detailed understanding of their subject area be just as helpful? Usually gained both practically and academically.
High level quals, maybe, I think your references to the medical world should be discarded as in the medical world lives are at stake! I doubt that the death of a rye grass leaf will lead to a law suit and a ban from practice. However, I get your drift!
Lets compare the military. There are many security consultants who were once armed forces personnel. I doubt if these guys have high level quals. Perhaps you should pass your thread onto them?
This aside, I found your thread very amusing. Thanks for the laugh! I hope getting it off your chest made you feel better.
6 May 2005 by Poa7
Post Note
Quote Colin
"some dodgy bloke who's a member of some iffy hand-shaking free-mason old boy network (the worst kind)......(especially if they call themselves a consultant agronomist!!)."
Sorry Colin, just woke up to this one. I agree, lol.
Consultants
Have to agree mostly with colin on this one. The only time that a consultant can be of any use is when you need to get something across to your commitee/ board, hire one of these guys in, tell him what you think. And hey-presto it will appear in their report and the commitee will take it on board thinking that it is a wonderful idea and why didn't you think of it in the first place. Not realising that you've been trying to tell them this for the last two years.
Sorry guys (and girl) consultants if you are offended but you know deep down that's the truth. For example, a very good friend of mine is a consultant in the i.t. industry. If he turns up you're charged £2000 a day, if it's his boss it's £4000. He picks up the file from his office, reads it in the cab over, talks to the people in the department asking them what improvements/ things would you like to be done to improve efficiency etc. Then just goes upstairs and tells those in charge what he's just been told. They think he's bloody marvellous, he goes home a lot richer. He says all he does is tell you the time with your own watch. Sound familiar.
Consultants
I think in the industry we work, to ensure that we get the best surfaces, Consultants are an integral part of the Industry.
If you use an agronomist wisely, and as part of your maintenace plan, they will give the Groundsman the assitance that they need, to produce good surface.
You do need to ensure that both agronomist and groundsman are on the same wavelength, there is no point the agronomist suggesting things that will never be considered, ( an agronomist from a very well known organisation, suggested to me once, that we should install a " pallet system", to help counter the various marquees we had on the Grounds i managed,a few years ago, needless to say, i did not renew the contract) this is where the Groundsman has to do his bit, i think a lot of groundsman see agronomists as a threat, or a smear on there ability, but use them wisely, and they can be very good allies, for all sorts of reasons.
I look upon agronomists as Auditors, ( there is not a company that does not have auditors once / twice a year)they give the groundsmans mainteneance the "once over", and suggest new, different techniques / ideas, they will also be as "technical" or as "basic" as you want, if you dont know something, they are a very good source of Information.
And no, i,m not an agronomist, though i do use them.
Consultants
Colin I can't disagree with you more. Consultants are there to help you on so many areas mostly politically. First we are employed by non-experts or amateurs in our field. They need confirmation that the person maintaining their football pitch, golf course, cricket grounds etc are doing the right job! So many times we hear about groundsmen or greenkeeepers being overpowerd or are in disagreements with their employers. Consultants will either back up your argument or disagree with you. If we are doing a good job what is there to fear? However we can't have it all our own way. There are groundsmen / greenkeepers making fundamental mistakes out there, and whether we like it or not they need advice.
I have never had a problem with a consultant due to the fact i work with them (thats what we pay for)
10 May 2005 by Al
Consultants & Agromomists
I'm alarmed that many people think this is just indicative of our profession.
Job title (or rather how it's advertised) is a clever marketing tool for maximising profit.
Although I wouldn't be naive enough to tarnish them all with the same indifference. I do happen to believe many have the means/tools & knowledge that many do not possess. After all, life encompassess many opinions from a variety of sources. Whether or not we act upon them is individual choice
Consultants
It's our job as highly qualified professionals to have a good working relationship with the agronomist we appoint. Therefore if I was to appoint a consultant with whom the mutual respect did not exist I would soon replace him (sorry, or her!).
I realise that I am lucky enough to have one of the, if not the top consultants in the country. It is up to us to go to a reputable, tried and tested consultant, and not hire the first one we come across (or the cheapest!).
Communication and understanding from our consultants is very important. Most problems that have occurred from reports are a result of either poor communication from ourselves (i.e. resources or lack of!), or not accepting our incompetences.
Of course there are some poor consultants, as there are some poor groundsmen and greenkeepers; hopefully one will find the other out!
31 Jul 2005 by Berts Fan Club!!
Agronomists and Consultants
I must say what always amazes me about the turfgrass industry is
1)How people go on about "so called" agronomists/consultants
and;
2)How professional everyone is
What I don't understand is who hires all these "so called" agronomists and consultants? If there wasn't the work they wouldn't exist. The answer is simple. Why hire an agronomist? For new pitch design and large projects then fair enough. But to look at maintenance work? As professional people why can't we sort our own problems out without the need to call in these people to tell us how to do it.
Agronomists
I would guess, that agronomists have access to lots of information, that we as groundsmen/greenkeeprs are not privvy to (reasearch, new methods, etc) even if we were privvy to it, how many of us would actually read every it, and understand it?
As i mentioned above, agronomists are like auditors, if you are doing the right maintenance, they will not be a threat, sometimes, the senior people above the groundsman / greenkeeper will insist on working with an agronomist ( i have had it), like Paul said above, we are employed by Non Experts in the industry, so we sometimes need the help of an agrnonomist, just to win an argument or make a valid point .
10 Sep 2005 by Paul lowe Last edited 10 Sep 2005
Consultants!
I had a small political problem this year regarding our firm / hard greens. Our members asking us to warter the greens to create "holding Greens." This could have been a major agronomic problem, however i contacted the STRI and the R&A. There reply to them was perfect!
This is one reason why we need outside help!
There is a real momentum in greenkeeping at the moment headed by the R&A and the STRI. For those greenkeepers on board the future looks very exiting
Back to Top - Go to Next Unread Message
This Message is closed, you may not post a reply at this time
