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Message Board - Natural Turf: styles of cutting grass on football pitches

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footiefan
Posted 11 Sep 2005
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StMarys.jpg
Hi guys,

Looking for advice on the attached image of St Marys Stadium in Southampton.

Does the style of cut on the grass have a name?
What is the reasoning for such a style?

Any advice will be much appreciate - many thanks.

footiefan
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MDM
Posted 12 Sep 2005
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3 x 18 Hole Championship Courses and a 9 Hole Par 3 Course

i think i remember seeing this on soccer am last season and that the groundsman amd his deputy groundsman just put an idea on paper and then do it!

i think he said it was a tartan effect
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LittleDave
Posted 18 Sep 2005 Last edited: 18 Sep 2005
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pitch.jpg
Aye, think it is a tartan effect. The groundsman at Manchester City did the same first game of the season.

Todays was a complete mystery to me as to what design it was. Will try and provide a picture.
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leeboy
Posted 23 Sep 2005
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DSCN3353.JPG
You must mean this one.....
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kirki
Posted 23 Sep 2005
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May I ask, leeboy and scall, whats the point?And I think footiefan asked something along the same lines at the start of the thread ? I for one would love to know
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Peter Leroy
Posted 24 Sep 2005
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aesthetics, looks etc.

And just to show they can :)
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bertbert
Posted 24 Sep 2005
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Just a showcase for showoffs I think...
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Cranfield
Posted 24 Sep 2005 Last edited: 24 Sep 2005
dale2007 032.jpg
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It is all about pride in your work, raising the profile of your facility is what we are all about, Groundsman and Greenkeepers continually strive to raise the standards of our industry ,often against many odds.

What better opportunity to show off your skills and expertise in managing a natural turf pitch.

The benefits and aims of producing a well presented pitch are many.

· Raises the profile of the club
· Sets a standard of workmanship
· Stimulates the sward
· Encourages players to perform
· Stimulates debate

Presentation skills in our industry should be applauded.

I see too many sites and in particularly Local Authority facilities lacking in presentation skills and attention to detail. Many Groundsman / Greenkeeping skills are being lost in our industry.

We should be promoting our industry at every opportunity not knocking it.
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kirki
Posted 24 Sep 2005
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I agree with raisng standards and having a well presented surface but cuttin in circles,sqwiggles tartan or any other stange pattern is pointless and can very offten make it dificult to watch the game.
This is also something that ueafa have picked up on and also fifa. they now recomend that a soccer pitch should only be cut in broad bands i.e 6m width one direction only! This is to help match officals and also tv coverage. While only a recomendation at the moment with all this rubbish that we see now it proabably be in the laws of the game soon. And it can`t come to quick!
As for:
"Raises the profile of the club"bad press is better than none?

"Sets a standard of workmanship" so the only way to set standards is to make silly patterns

"Encourages players to perform" players come on to pitch "oh look pitch cut in circles think i`ll raise my game today?

"Stimulates the sward" debatable

"Stimulates debate" I aggree 100%


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bertbert
Posted 24 Sep 2005
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Now now girls!
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russell jones
Posted 25 Sep 2005
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it doesnt matter how good you are at your job there is always someone ready to have a pop! Kirki i would like to see how you have decorated your house, nothing to nice after all whats the point!!
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kirki
Posted 25 Sep 2005
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good to hear from you Calthorpe. I see your moving the debate up a level... nice one
And for the record I have never criticised anyone for being good,bad or indifferent at their job.

JUST FOR SILLY PATTERNS!

P.s Linda barker is never out my house with her swatches. Brown is the new black you know. And cerise is ths seasons must have shade
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bertbert
Posted 25 Sep 2005
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Who asked for siily patterns?

Who asked for opinions on silly patterns?

Who cares about silly patterns?

Not me for all of the above-get on with your work and if others choose to make fools of themselves whilst doing theirs, its up to them!
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bertbert
Posted 25 Sep 2005
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To pull what off? Its only a case of cutting it a bit different, they arent exactly being brave and going to war at these clubs that do the different patterns are they???
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kirki
Posted 26 Sep 2005
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HEAR! HEAR! bertbert totally agree
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bertbert
Posted 26 Sep 2005
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That doesnt mean I agree with you either though so dont get carried away
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MDM
Posted 26 Sep 2005
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3 x 18 Hole Championship Courses and a 9 Hole Par 3 Course

kirki

brown is the new black

circles are the new squares!
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Anonymous
Posted 27 Sep 2005
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DSCN2637.JPG
Perhaps this sort of pitch presentation suits some people.....
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Anonymous
Posted 27 Sep 2005
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.....just see how the goal line is level with the posts, better entertainment than any mower pattern!
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kirki
Posted 27 Sep 2005
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Hi CM good to hear your input to this thread. There is obviously NO beginning to your talents.

And Hello, to the brave Anonymous. maybe you should read the whole thread again. Try reading it out loud it might sink in a bit better……. If not ask a friend / carer to help. Also, a little tip, I wouldn’t criticise anyone else’s workmanship but your own.
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bertbert
Posted 27 Sep 2005
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Kirki, pot and kettle? not criticising work but your own-pitch patterns ring a bell?!?!?!?!?!!
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kirki
Posted 28 Sep 2005
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hello bertbert RING as in circle good one! na as I said before I agree with raising standards and having a well presented surface but cutting in circles,sqwiggles tartan or any other stange pattern is pointless. I know you want to agree with me don`t be shy.

Still waiting to hear about the benifits of pics at the top of the thread though.

All these highflying flamboyant groundsmen wanting to show how big and clever ( maybe not the clever bit) they are, and still no answer to my question. THAT SAYS IT ALL
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dave r-b
Posted 28 Sep 2005
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im now an ex groundsman but hey old habits die hard

fig iii.jpg
Just to answer Cranfield. although my pitch doesnt have the striking patterns of some of the pitches that have been mentioned, it is however a local authority parks picth. I for one do like to make the effort and feel simple stipes do look the best
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bertbert
Posted 29 Sep 2005
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How do we know that straight lines arent odd and squiggles are normal? Just because the majority do it, it doesnt make it the done thing does it?
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Dave
Posted 29 Sep 2005
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So what is so wrong with a bit of artistic license? If any Groundsman is proud of the strength, thickness and health of the grass, why not show it off.

Personally I wouldn't cut circles for the simple reason that the linesmen can't make an offside decision so easily, compared to when the pitch is cut in perpendicular bands.

However as an Industry, it is a good thing that the quality of natural pitches is highlighted and this is the perfect way to do it.
Afterall it certainly creates discussion.

What is more annoying is that there are people hell bent on bemoaning their peers at every opportunity. If you go to other countries and sit in seminars and award ceremonies, winners are genuinely congratulated on achievement by everyone in attendance. Only in the UK, do people knock and criticise. It is saddening that there are a few extremely jealous and sad people ready to be critical, yet aren't open enough to come forward and put their real names to their convictions.
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Stephen Bache
Posted 29 Sep 2005
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groundman says
"It is saddening that there are a few extremely jealous and sad people ready to be critical, yet aren't open enough to come forward and put their real names to their convictions."
whats your name again?
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Pitchcare Peter
Posted 29 Sep 2005
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In all this debate, which has reached childish proportions in some instances, aren't some of you missing the point .... QUALITY!

UK pitches have improved enormously over the past ten years or so and I think it is perfectly legitimate to 'show off' this quality in which ever way the groundsmen chooses.

It would be sad if football pitches went back to the quagmires of the 70's and 80's. And let's not forget that much of what you do as groundsmen and greenkeepers is seen by millions on TV - so go ahead - show off - and continue to raise the standard of all our turf surfaces which, by the way, are considered to be the best in the world!
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kirki
Posted 29 Sep 2005
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I agree on how our UK pitches have improved over the past decade or two. I also agree in raising standards and to be proud to show your pitch at its best. But surely by doing our show "off thing" we run the risk of distracting the linesman with all the crazy patterns and could make a wrong decision against your home team.
Given the flak that linesmen take for various wrong decisions how long before the groundsman gets the blame for causing it just because he wanted to show off.
So I say keep the improving the surfaces and keep them imacuatly presented.
BUT JUST SAY NO TO SILLY PATTERNS

May I also say this thread has been on the most part great. Having lots of involvement on what we are all passionate about “great pitches”. Whether you agree with me or not it’s been great hearing your opinions and I hope to hear a lot more from you all.
MAY YOUR LINE BE SRAIGHT


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dave r-b
Posted 29 Sep 2005
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im now an ex groundsman but hey old habits die hard

I was'nt having a pop at anyone as i do like to see my piers showing off as it inspires me... i was having a pop at cranfield for saying local authority pitches never look good..... I also do the cricket here for a side that play in an ecb premier league and 2 yrs ago we were paid a visit by sky sports. There was comment passed that some pro grounds dont look as good.... happy me...... a ground that looks nice when a player or team turns up promotes a feel good factor
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bertbert
Posted 30 Sep 2005
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Linesmen cant make proper decisions whatever the pattern-Man U v Tottenham and disallowed goal ring any bells?
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bertbert
Posted 1 Oct 2005
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Having just walked in from work, I have switched the tv on and Sunderland have mowing lines across and the length of the pitch, with circles withing the centre circle-is this acceptable Kirki, boyfriend of Fizz in Coronation Street?
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kirki
Posted 1 Oct 2005
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Thanks for the compliment bertbert.
I would say no. But then I think you knew I was going to say that.
I was told at the start of the season Arsenal had their crest ,brushed / cut, in the centre circle at the first game of the season. I never saw it but if it was to be true that is against rules.
Just keep it simple, it looks better and you don’t need to be up all night thinking “how am I going to do my next design” Also come February think we might find the crazy patterns becoming less prominent as the mind set is to find the grass rather than be creative. Anyway how did you see the Sunderland game on the X factor?
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Anonymous
Posted 1 Oct 2005
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has any one actually considered what the players/officials want!! because at the end of the day, whether you like it or not that is why you are doing what you are doing!!!!!

maybe, just maybe, these over the top pitch patterns are making it increasingly difficult to judge offsides etc. and maybe the fans ( yes, the ones in the stands, who, believe it or not pay your WAGES) dont like watching a game when their eyes are going round in circles because some groundsman got all clever!!

for gods sake keep it simple!!
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kirki
Posted 1 Oct 2005
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Well said Anonymous (are you the same one earlier in the thread? so many people with the same name I get mixed up) I think we should we bar all those who make silly designs from Pitchcare website. It’s making our industry a laughing stock..!
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dave r-b
Posted 1 Oct 2005 Last edited: 1 Oct 2005
007.JPG
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im now an ex groundsman but hey old habits die hard

kirki, as a lower level groundsman i hope you will listen to my thoughts. i dont think it shows our industry as a laughing stock but actually shows what can be done.... im not in favour of these patterns on pitches week in week out but am in favour of our trade being able to show how good we are..... so what about an annual compitition for this strange pattern cutting. that way we can get our creativity out of the system and leave the pitches to look NEAT AND TIDY each week for the football. I personally am a cricket man first and formost. There for me is only one way to cut an outfield and that is in 5m panels in both direction. The checker board look cant be beaten...... NEAT and TIDY
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bertbert
Posted 2 Oct 2005
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It is not against the rules to put a logo into the pitch as long as it is not for commercial gain. I too did not see Arsenals logo, but I believe it was well done and well presented-what about Old Trafford for the 2003 Champions League final? They were given a template by UEFA to make a champions league star logo in the centre circle-if its illegal why did a governing body such as UEFA request such a thing??
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bertbert
Posted 2 Oct 2005
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It is not against the rules to put a logo into the pitch as long as it is not for commercial gain. I too did not see Arsenals logo, but I believe it was well done and well presented-what about Old Trafford for the 2003 Champions League final? They were given a template by UEFA to make a champions league star logo in the centre circle-if its illegal why did a governing body such as UEFA request such a thing??
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bertbert
Posted 2 Oct 2005
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and the reason I saw them on X Factor?...because that contains a load of useless no hopers and both teams fitted in well!

I am off to cut some circles, diamonds, rectangles, squiggles etc....!


In all honesty, nothing annoys me more than seeing a pitch that has a pattern, whatever it is, but they just choose to 'close in' the areas between the white lines the length of the pitch, ie Chelsea, Liverpool, Blackburn, Manchester United etc-cant they just get a tape measure and make 12 or 14 equally sized bands going lengthways? At least with what you can see of the pictures above, they seem to have been cut in an even way, barring the one that I am sure is baffling us all...!

Its all about opinion, allegedly....
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kirki
Posted 2 Oct 2005
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for your info bertbert
laws of the game
Decision 5
The reproduction, whether real or virtual, of representative logos or
emblems of FIFA, confederations, member associations, leagues, clubs
or other bodies, is forbidden on the field of play and field equipment
(including the goal nets and the areas they enclose) during playing
time, as described in Decision 3.
told you you just did`nt belive me!
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bertbert
Posted 3 Oct 2005
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Perhaps the Premier League should be asking Arsenal questions then......what about the champions league logo then, as requested by EUFA, one of the governing bodies?
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baggy
Posted 3 Oct 2005
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having previously worked at a league club my experience was that creating patterns on the pitch certainly staved off the boredom of mowing in the two traditional directions.however come kick off the effect had usually been wrecked by kids dragging alarge sponsors sheet onto the centre circle brushing the pattern out .
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kirki
Posted 3 Oct 2005
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If my memory serves me this only happened at the champ league final 2003 old Trafford never saw it after that. Would have to check back old laws of the game to see when they brought that in.
I see one of the premiership grounds had a little bit of Burberry design going on.
I thought there was something up with my telly. But no, the first CHAV soccer pitch!!! What an achievement……. Says it all I suppose.
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paul knowles
Posted 3 Oct 2005
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Whilst at spurs and now at kettering and rushden i tend to stick with 3 or 6 yard stripes both ways because i didnt want to do more cuts on the pitch reinstating a pattern after taking it out with aerating or something like that,also easier to divot. Im always worried about getting caught out by rain in the winter so would want to keep the mowing time to a minimum.
As always with these message boards some of the comments make sense and some of them are just to painful for words- in fact i cant believe im contributing to this particular thread-patterns in football pitches dear god!
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bertbert
Posted 3 Oct 2005
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I also seen the so called burberry design, though it was mentioned at the end of match of the day 2 and the groundsmen responsible were praised for it-how often does that happen, so in this case i suppose the people responsible have done what most people dont the chance to do-RAISE THE PROFILE OF OOUR PROFESSION! whether we like the patterns or not-and I am not a big fan-at least they got some recognition for it.
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leeboy
Posted 4 Oct 2005
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I dont know whether or not to take bertberts comments seriously-this cant be Bert reinvented can it?

As for the MOTD 2 comments, by all accounts they mentoned the groundsman, but it was a team effort getting the pitch ready it wasnt just down to me. The patterns do create a talking point but the measure of the pitch will be in the winter months, and by that time the patterns will be a bit more sensible!

Chavs of the world unite!
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pandocc
Posted 4 Oct 2005
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It's obviuosly just to confuse the linesmen (sorry referees assistants) as I think they use the lines in the pitch to judge the offside rule, no wonder so many get it wrong these days with all the patterns!
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paul knowles
Posted 4 Oct 2005
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Referees assistant not noticing Man Utd offside goal at Fulham with that complicated six yard pattern in the pitch. The linesman will (or should) stand in line with the last defender to judge offsides. Cant win as a groundsman what did the linesman use in the 70s to judge offsides-the nearest pile of mud?
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MFCJames
Posted 5 Oct 2005
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All that the linesman do is make a mess of the toutch lines. Any one else have this problem? Any way of keeping the grass there?
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kirki
Posted 5 Oct 2005
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rubber crumb
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bertbert
Posted 6 Oct 2005
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Dont see the connection with rubber crumb and patterns on a pitch?
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leeboy
Posted 6 Oct 2005
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Normal service resumed by Bert/bertbert!
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leeboy
Posted 6 Oct 2005 Last edited: 7 Oct 2005
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DSCN3369.JPG
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kirki
Posted 6 Oct 2005
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A perfect example of how not to cut a soccer pitch if ever I saw one. The pitch markings have merged into the myriad of lines. Oh what fun to watch a game of football on that.
Well Leeboy you have proven what I have been saying all along. The prosecution rests it case on the evidence above
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bertbert
Posted 6 Oct 2005
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Hahahahahahaha what a pair of pathetic whingers you both are, though from the little bit that I saw last week, the pitch was the only talking point of the game!
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andynunn
Posted 11 Oct 2005
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we like to do our ground like this
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bertbert
Posted 11 Oct 2005
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Like what?
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